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DRAGONKNIGHT REFLECT a little too OP in pvp
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Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Look I main an Archer Reflect is just fine honestly could use a buff like a longer duration to 6 seconds like a shield has. Again I main a Stamina Archer Nightblade.
The duration is already 6 seconds. The main problem with the "duration" is how few projectiles it reflects.Funny how some players do not see how it is a problem that one skill can shut down over 90% of all range attacks. The only counter play this skill has is not to use range attacks.
Wings against range players:- reflects basic light attacks(destro staff/bow/ resto) - that alone ~20% damage reduction if the main weapon is reflectable
- reflects all range dots - ~ another 20% damage reduction (mag nb, mag templer, master staff sorc, mag warden, any stam build with a bow for poison inc)
- reflects a lot of range ccs- reach, javelin, draining shot,
- reflects 80% of all spam-able skills - hidden blade, snipe, reach, funnel
There is only one situation where wings seem not so good and that is when you got highly outnumbered since so many players will bring the wings quite fast to the max number of reflects.
Almost like how cloak can shut down anything but AOE's, basically forcing players to do the same, slot a skill that counters it?
Almost like how Shimmering Shield actually does the same, but works better in that it is an amount of damage it absorbs in total, not a flat amount of projectiles, while returning magicka for each projectile absorbed, and granting Major Heroism, and being even cheaper, and having less exceptions?
Almost like how (pre nerf) damage shields shut down anything but oblivion damage, forcing players to keep pressure up to punch through them?
The only class that doesn't have something similar is Templar. Every other class has something just as strong as, if not stronger than wings. Wings is not some special thing that completely breaks balance.
And, yes, wings is expensive for what it actually offers: an inferior version of Shimmering Shield that reflects attacks back instead of absorbing them, except it also works for fewer projectiles, is prone to bugging out and letting some projectiles through, and has a flat limit of 4 that means it can drop the moment you cast it.
It amazes me that people are pointing out wings for being "broken", yet Shimmering Shield grants the same level of projectile immunity, that works against all projectiles reliably, while being cheaper, returning magicka on each projectile absorbed making it even cheaper, and granting Major Heroism, increasing ultimate generation.
But yeah, go ahead and nerf wings, when DK has already been nerfed into the ground, and is only becoming better because you guys keep asking for other classes to be nerfed into the ground.
What about this and what about that? Have you heard about Whataboutism?
Yes, the skills you mentioned are in some context strong but they have counters.
Cloak: you need to get out of cloak to attack and aoe pulls them out (still think this skill is too strong)
Shimmering: does just aborb it and not reflect so you can actually break through it, has a max on what it can absorb and it does not absorb secondary effects like cc,root, snare...
Streak: gap close, get movement speed, has stacking cost like no other skill in the game
Wings should be a strong skill, but it should have counters. It was designed that it reflects range attacks but it does more than that it reflects all attacks that could be used at range and a smart counter would be giving the skill a min distance where the attacker has to be before it can be reflected.
Wings has counters. You just don't want to use them.
Cloak requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, just like wings.
Shimmering requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, or to punch through the limit, just like wings. Wings also has the same thing, where it lets secondary effects through. Don't believe it lets CC through, but any sort of status effect, such as a dot or a Major/Minor debuff, are let through, regardless of whether the attack was reflected or not.
Never mentioned Streak, rather shields (pre-nerf).
It does not reflect all attacks at range, now you're making stuff up. It only reflect projectiles, and even then, it only reflects some projectiles. Warden's bird, certain ulti's, sets, etc aren't reflected, or even absorbed, by wings. I know for certain, as I've tested it with friends.
cloak requires u 1 thing to equip to fully use ur build against the guy cloaking ( radiant light, pots) and u can trash the guy. wings on the other hand force u to use 1 skill (destro staff beam) while the rest of ur build is useless.
if u rly want to bring it on par with cloak there should be a debuff. everybody would equip such a skill to use against dk like ppl do against cloak. but there is no such thing to debuff a dk reflect. forcing u to use 1 dmg ability against them while the rest of ur build is useless during the fight.
And the rest of your build isn't useless against cloak? While somebody is in cloak, they're completely untargetable. The only way to pull them out is to slot an AOE (just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile), use detect pots (which are expensive), or slot a detection skill like Magelight or Evil Hunter (again, just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile).
Again, wings is an expensive skill on a class that is already having issues sustaining. It is not like a DK can indefinitely sustain wings, unless they dedicate all of their resources to keeping it up. If you can survive, which honestly isn't hard due to the fact that you can exploit DK's lack of mobility by kiting them, then eventually they will let their wings drop, in which case you go in for the kill. Not that patient? Slot a stun, prevent them from casting wings in the first place. MagNB is in a tricky spot here, due to the fact that your stun is seemingly classed as a projectile, and I even said that should be looked at, as I'm fairly certain it isn't.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again. I absolutely love how you guys are harping on about DK's wings, when Warden's Shimmering Shield lacks the reflect, but is considerably cheaper, returns magicka whenever it absorbs a projectile, it absorbs a total amount of damage rather than a flat amount of projectiles (means a weak ass light attack won't take up a projectile slot that could have been used for something that actually hits hard), works more consistently, works on more skills, and grants Major Heroism.
This entire thread screams "I don't want or don't know how to counter this one defensive ability, so I want it nerfed into the ground!"
Tell me what is the counter to this skill?
Do not use light attacks? 20% less damage done
Do not use range dots? another 20% less damage
Do not use range spam-able or range high burst skills? (assassin will, frags, snipe)
This skill does have no real counter to it. You can play a little around of it by trying to use some skills that will not be reflected but alone the fact that it reflects the only mag weapon in the game light attacks is op as hell and has no counter.
This skill only reflects projectiles. Not every ranged skill in the game is a projectile.
From my first comment in this thread:Sorc has Curse & Wrath. Templar has jabs, Backlash, beam. Warden has shaulks, the bird (tested, the stamina morph is not reflected), Swarm. NB is a little SOL, and I think the skills in the NB kit need to be revisited in terms of which can be reflected (Cripple being the main one, pretty sure this isn't a projectile, and yet it is affected by wings), though you have Force Pulse, Veiled Strike, and Assassin's Blade. A few ultimates also aren't affected by wings, and I can't think of any proc sets that are affected.
There are counters. Use them. Stop complaining.
That are no counters.
It just means that some kills are unaffected by wings but your damage will still be reduced greatly if anything of your build toolkit can be not applied due to wings. (alone no light attacks = 20% less damage!)
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Look I main an Archer Reflect is just fine honestly could use a buff like a longer duration to 6 seconds like a shield has. Again I main a Stamina Archer Nightblade.
The duration is already 6 seconds. The main problem with the "duration" is how few projectiles it reflects.Funny how some players do not see how it is a problem that one skill can shut down over 90% of all range attacks. The only counter play this skill has is not to use range attacks.
Wings against range players:- reflects basic light attacks(destro staff/bow/ resto) - that alone ~20% damage reduction if the main weapon is reflectable
- reflects all range dots - ~ another 20% damage reduction (mag nb, mag templer, master staff sorc, mag warden, any stam build with a bow for poison inc)
- reflects a lot of range ccs- reach, javelin, draining shot,
- reflects 80% of all spam-able skills - hidden blade, snipe, reach, funnel
There is only one situation where wings seem not so good and that is when you got highly outnumbered since so many players will bring the wings quite fast to the max number of reflects.
Almost like how cloak can shut down anything but AOE's, basically forcing players to do the same, slot a skill that counters it?
Almost like how Shimmering Shield actually does the same, but works better in that it is an amount of damage it absorbs in total, not a flat amount of projectiles, while returning magicka for each projectile absorbed, and granting Major Heroism, and being even cheaper, and having less exceptions?
Almost like how (pre nerf) damage shields shut down anything but oblivion damage, forcing players to keep pressure up to punch through them?
The only class that doesn't have something similar is Templar. Every other class has something just as strong as, if not stronger than wings. Wings is not some special thing that completely breaks balance.
And, yes, wings is expensive for what it actually offers: an inferior version of Shimmering Shield that reflects attacks back instead of absorbing them, except it also works for fewer projectiles, is prone to bugging out and letting some projectiles through, and has a flat limit of 4 that means it can drop the moment you cast it.
It amazes me that people are pointing out wings for being "broken", yet Shimmering Shield grants the same level of projectile immunity, that works against all projectiles reliably, while being cheaper, returning magicka on each projectile absorbed making it even cheaper, and granting Major Heroism, increasing ultimate generation.
But yeah, go ahead and nerf wings, when DK has already been nerfed into the ground, and is only becoming better because you guys keep asking for other classes to be nerfed into the ground.
What about this and what about that? Have you heard about Whataboutism?
Yes, the skills you mentioned are in some context strong but they have counters.
Cloak: you need to get out of cloak to attack and aoe pulls them out (still think this skill is too strong)
Shimmering: does just aborb it and not reflect so you can actually break through it, has a max on what it can absorb and it does not absorb secondary effects like cc,root, snare...
Streak: gap close, get movement speed, has stacking cost like no other skill in the game
Wings should be a strong skill, but it should have counters. It was designed that it reflects range attacks but it does more than that it reflects all attacks that could be used at range and a smart counter would be giving the skill a min distance where the attacker has to be before it can be reflected.
Wings has counters. You just don't want to use them.
Cloak requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, just like wings.
Shimmering requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, or to punch through the limit, just like wings. Wings also has the same thing, where it lets secondary effects through. Don't believe it lets CC through, but any sort of status effect, such as a dot or a Major/Minor debuff, are let through, regardless of whether the attack was reflected or not.
Never mentioned Streak, rather shields (pre-nerf).
It does not reflect all attacks at range, now you're making stuff up. It only reflect projectiles, and even then, it only reflects some projectiles. Warden's bird, certain ulti's, sets, etc aren't reflected, or even absorbed, by wings. I know for certain, as I've tested it with friends.
cloak requires u 1 thing to equip to fully use ur build against the guy cloaking ( radiant light, pots) and u can trash the guy. wings on the other hand force u to use 1 skill (destro staff beam) while the rest of ur build is useless.
if u rly want to bring it on par with cloak there should be a debuff. everybody would equip such a skill to use against dk like ppl do against cloak. but there is no such thing to debuff a dk reflect. forcing u to use 1 dmg ability against them while the rest of ur build is useless during the fight.
And the rest of your build isn't useless against cloak? While somebody is in cloak, they're completely untargetable. The only way to pull them out is to slot an AOE (just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile), use detect pots (which are expensive), or slot a detection skill like Magelight or Evil Hunter (again, just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile).
Again, wings is an expensive skill on a class that is already having issues sustaining. It is not like a DK can indefinitely sustain wings, unless they dedicate all of their resources to keeping it up. If you can survive, which honestly isn't hard due to the fact that you can exploit DK's lack of mobility by kiting them, then eventually they will let their wings drop, in which case you go in for the kill. Not that patient? Slot a stun, prevent them from casting wings in the first place. MagNB is in a tricky spot here, due to the fact that your stun is seemingly classed as a projectile, and I even said that should be looked at, as I'm fairly certain it isn't.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again. I absolutely love how you guys are harping on about DK's wings, when Warden's Shimmering Shield lacks the reflect, but is considerably cheaper, returns magicka whenever it absorbs a projectile, it absorbs a total amount of damage rather than a flat amount of projectiles (means a weak ass light attack won't take up a projectile slot that could have been used for something that actually hits hard), works more consistently, works on more skills, and grants Major Heroism.
This entire thread screams "I don't want or don't know how to counter this one defensive ability, so I want it nerfed into the ground!"
Tell me what is the counter to this skill?
Do not use light attacks? 20% less damage done
Do not use range dots? another 20% less damage
Do not use range spam-able or range high burst skills? (assassin will, frags, snipe)
This skill does have no real counter to it. You can play a little around of it by trying to use some skills that will not be reflected but alone the fact that it reflects the only mag weapon in the game light attacks is op as hell and has no counter.
This skill only reflects projectiles. Not every ranged skill in the game is a projectile.
From my first comment in this thread:Sorc has Curse & Wrath. Templar has jabs, Backlash, beam. Warden has shaulks, the bird (tested, the stamina morph is not reflected), Swarm. NB is a little SOL, and I think the skills in the NB kit need to be revisited in terms of which can be reflected (Cripple being the main one, pretty sure this isn't a projectile, and yet it is affected by wings), though you have Force Pulse, Veiled Strike, and Assassin's Blade. A few ultimates also aren't affected by wings, and I can't think of any proc sets that are affected.
There are counters. Use them. Stop complaining.
there is no way u can expect someone to put up a fight if his build is crippled by 80 - 90 %.
this is not something u can call a counterEdited by Noctus on November 4, 2018 3:03PM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Look I main an Archer Reflect is just fine honestly could use a buff like a longer duration to 6 seconds like a shield has. Again I main a Stamina Archer Nightblade.
The duration is already 6 seconds. The main problem with the "duration" is how few projectiles it reflects.Funny how some players do not see how it is a problem that one skill can shut down over 90% of all range attacks. The only counter play this skill has is not to use range attacks.
Wings against range players:- reflects basic light attacks(destro staff/bow/ resto) - that alone ~20% damage reduction if the main weapon is reflectable
- reflects all range dots - ~ another 20% damage reduction (mag nb, mag templer, master staff sorc, mag warden, any stam build with a bow for poison inc)
- reflects a lot of range ccs- reach, javelin, draining shot,
- reflects 80% of all spam-able skills - hidden blade, snipe, reach, funnel
There is only one situation where wings seem not so good and that is when you got highly outnumbered since so many players will bring the wings quite fast to the max number of reflects.
Almost like how cloak can shut down anything but AOE's, basically forcing players to do the same, slot a skill that counters it?
Almost like how Shimmering Shield actually does the same, but works better in that it is an amount of damage it absorbs in total, not a flat amount of projectiles, while returning magicka for each projectile absorbed, and granting Major Heroism, and being even cheaper, and having less exceptions?
Almost like how (pre nerf) damage shields shut down anything but oblivion damage, forcing players to keep pressure up to punch through them?
The only class that doesn't have something similar is Templar. Every other class has something just as strong as, if not stronger than wings. Wings is not some special thing that completely breaks balance.
And, yes, wings is expensive for what it actually offers: an inferior version of Shimmering Shield that reflects attacks back instead of absorbing them, except it also works for fewer projectiles, is prone to bugging out and letting some projectiles through, and has a flat limit of 4 that means it can drop the moment you cast it.
It amazes me that people are pointing out wings for being "broken", yet Shimmering Shield grants the same level of projectile immunity, that works against all projectiles reliably, while being cheaper, returning magicka on each projectile absorbed making it even cheaper, and granting Major Heroism, increasing ultimate generation.
But yeah, go ahead and nerf wings, when DK has already been nerfed into the ground, and is only becoming better because you guys keep asking for other classes to be nerfed into the ground.
What about this and what about that? Have you heard about Whataboutism?
Yes, the skills you mentioned are in some context strong but they have counters.
Cloak: you need to get out of cloak to attack and aoe pulls them out (still think this skill is too strong)
Shimmering: does just aborb it and not reflect so you can actually break through it, has a max on what it can absorb and it does not absorb secondary effects like cc,root, snare...
Streak: gap close, get movement speed, has stacking cost like no other skill in the game
Wings should be a strong skill, but it should have counters. It was designed that it reflects range attacks but it does more than that it reflects all attacks that could be used at range and a smart counter would be giving the skill a min distance where the attacker has to be before it can be reflected.
Wings has counters. You just don't want to use them.
Cloak requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, just like wings.
Shimmering requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, or to punch through the limit, just like wings. Wings also has the same thing, where it lets secondary effects through. Don't believe it lets CC through, but any sort of status effect, such as a dot or a Major/Minor debuff, are let through, regardless of whether the attack was reflected or not.
Never mentioned Streak, rather shields (pre-nerf).
It does not reflect all attacks at range, now you're making stuff up. It only reflect projectiles, and even then, it only reflects some projectiles. Warden's bird, certain ulti's, sets, etc aren't reflected, or even absorbed, by wings. I know for certain, as I've tested it with friends.
cloak requires u 1 thing to equip to fully use ur build against the guy cloaking ( radiant light, pots) and u can trash the guy. wings on the other hand force u to use 1 skill (destro staff beam) while the rest of ur build is useless.
if u rly want to bring it on par with cloak there should be a debuff. everybody would equip such a skill to use against dk like ppl do against cloak. but there is no such thing to debuff a dk reflect. forcing u to use 1 dmg ability against them while the rest of ur build is useless during the fight.
And the rest of your build isn't useless against cloak? While somebody is in cloak, they're completely untargetable. The only way to pull them out is to slot an AOE (just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile), use detect pots (which are expensive), or slot a detection skill like Magelight or Evil Hunter (again, just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile).
Again, wings is an expensive skill on a class that is already having issues sustaining. It is not like a DK can indefinitely sustain wings, unless they dedicate all of their resources to keeping it up. If you can survive, which honestly isn't hard due to the fact that you can exploit DK's lack of mobility by kiting them, then eventually they will let their wings drop, in which case you go in for the kill. Not that patient? Slot a stun, prevent them from casting wings in the first place. MagNB is in a tricky spot here, due to the fact that your stun is seemingly classed as a projectile, and I even said that should be looked at, as I'm fairly certain it isn't.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again. I absolutely love how you guys are harping on about DK's wings, when Warden's Shimmering Shield lacks the reflect, but is considerably cheaper, returns magicka whenever it absorbs a projectile, it absorbs a total amount of damage rather than a flat amount of projectiles (means a weak ass light attack won't take up a projectile slot that could have been used for something that actually hits hard), works more consistently, works on more skills, and grants Major Heroism.
This entire thread screams "I don't want or don't know how to counter this one defensive ability, so I want it nerfed into the ground!"
Tell me what is the counter to this skill?
Do not use light attacks? 20% less damage done
Do not use range dots? another 20% less damage
Do not use range spam-able or range high burst skills? (assassin will, frags, snipe)
This skill does have no real counter to it. You can play a little around of it by trying to use some skills that will not be reflected but alone the fact that it reflects the only mag weapon in the game light attacks is op as hell and has no counter.
This skill only reflects projectiles. Not every ranged skill in the game is a projectile.
From my first comment in this thread:Sorc has Curse & Wrath. Templar has jabs, Backlash, beam. Warden has shaulks, the bird (tested, the stamina morph is not reflected), Swarm. NB is a little SOL, and I think the skills in the NB kit need to be revisited in terms of which can be reflected (Cripple being the main one, pretty sure this isn't a projectile, and yet it is affected by wings), though you have Force Pulse, Veiled Strike, and Assassin's Blade. A few ultimates also aren't affected by wings, and I can't think of any proc sets that are affected.
There are counters. Use them. Stop complaining.
That are no counters.
It just means that some kills are unaffected by wings but your damage will still be reduced greatly if anything of your build toolkit can be not applied due to wings. (alone no light attacks = 20% less damage!)
They are still options available to you. You would just rather cry on the forums, than accept the fact that the game is balanced as a rock-paper-scissors game, where not every build will counter every other build. You built a character who solely uses projectiles? Unfortunately for you, DK is the antithesis of that playstyle.
I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm in more or less the exact same position as you guys with my own PVP main. I main a dot-based stamDK in PVP, and so cloak is more or less a hard counter to my build, as a NB can drop into cloak, forcing all of my dot's to start missing, mitigating all of my damage, then they can get a hot going and reengage at full health, even though I had multiple dot's ticking against them.
I can't do anything against this, either, as I don't run Steel Tornado, don't have the bar room for Evil Hunter, and I run tri-pots with 100% uptime, so I can't run detect pots. The only thing I can use to counter this is my Volatile Armour and my Blade Cloak, both of which are very low range, to the point where if a NB drops into cloak, I've basically lost them.
You know what I've done? Instead of coming onto the forums and crying about the fact that cloak counters my build, demanding nerfs even though there are other counters available, I've simply changed my playstyle. The moment I see a NB drop into cloak, I immediately accept that I'm going to have to pressure them back down, and I start blocking to prevent the potential stun coming my way. I don't even bother slamming AOE's, because it is just a waste of resources due to the obscenely low range (seriously, a good NB can get away super quick). There is no reason why you can't do the same.
I get it. It is frustrating that DK counters your build so hard. NB, I even empathise, and I do think the kit needs to be reworked, as there really aren't any ranged counters, though that is an issue with the NB kit being basically all projectiles, not wings. I get it, dude. But, that's the nature of PVP in this game. ESO's PVP is developed with the mindset of a rock-paper-scissors game. One thing more or less counters another. No one build counters every other build. There will always be fights you will have to walk away from, simply because you aren't built for that fight.3 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Look I main an Archer Reflect is just fine honestly could use a buff like a longer duration to 6 seconds like a shield has. Again I main a Stamina Archer Nightblade.
The duration is already 6 seconds. The main problem with the "duration" is how few projectiles it reflects.Funny how some players do not see how it is a problem that one skill can shut down over 90% of all range attacks. The only counter play this skill has is not to use range attacks.
Wings against range players:- reflects basic light attacks(destro staff/bow/ resto) - that alone ~20% damage reduction if the main weapon is reflectable
- reflects all range dots - ~ another 20% damage reduction (mag nb, mag templer, master staff sorc, mag warden, any stam build with a bow for poison inc)
- reflects a lot of range ccs- reach, javelin, draining shot,
- reflects 80% of all spam-able skills - hidden blade, snipe, reach, funnel
There is only one situation where wings seem not so good and that is when you got highly outnumbered since so many players will bring the wings quite fast to the max number of reflects.
Almost like how cloak can shut down anything but AOE's, basically forcing players to do the same, slot a skill that counters it?
Almost like how Shimmering Shield actually does the same, but works better in that it is an amount of damage it absorbs in total, not a flat amount of projectiles, while returning magicka for each projectile absorbed, and granting Major Heroism, and being even cheaper, and having less exceptions?
Almost like how (pre nerf) damage shields shut down anything but oblivion damage, forcing players to keep pressure up to punch through them?
The only class that doesn't have something similar is Templar. Every other class has something just as strong as, if not stronger than wings. Wings is not some special thing that completely breaks balance.
And, yes, wings is expensive for what it actually offers: an inferior version of Shimmering Shield that reflects attacks back instead of absorbing them, except it also works for fewer projectiles, is prone to bugging out and letting some projectiles through, and has a flat limit of 4 that means it can drop the moment you cast it.
It amazes me that people are pointing out wings for being "broken", yet Shimmering Shield grants the same level of projectile immunity, that works against all projectiles reliably, while being cheaper, returning magicka on each projectile absorbed making it even cheaper, and granting Major Heroism, increasing ultimate generation.
But yeah, go ahead and nerf wings, when DK has already been nerfed into the ground, and is only becoming better because you guys keep asking for other classes to be nerfed into the ground.
What about this and what about that? Have you heard about Whataboutism?
Yes, the skills you mentioned are in some context strong but they have counters.
Cloak: you need to get out of cloak to attack and aoe pulls them out (still think this skill is too strong)
Shimmering: does just aborb it and not reflect so you can actually break through it, has a max on what it can absorb and it does not absorb secondary effects like cc,root, snare...
Streak: gap close, get movement speed, has stacking cost like no other skill in the game
Wings should be a strong skill, but it should have counters. It was designed that it reflects range attacks but it does more than that it reflects all attacks that could be used at range and a smart counter would be giving the skill a min distance where the attacker has to be before it can be reflected.
Wings has counters. You just don't want to use them.
Cloak requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, just like wings.
Shimmering requires you to slot a specific type of skill to counter, or to punch through the limit, just like wings. Wings also has the same thing, where it lets secondary effects through. Don't believe it lets CC through, but any sort of status effect, such as a dot or a Major/Minor debuff, are let through, regardless of whether the attack was reflected or not.
Never mentioned Streak, rather shields (pre-nerf).
It does not reflect all attacks at range, now you're making stuff up. It only reflect projectiles, and even then, it only reflects some projectiles. Warden's bird, certain ulti's, sets, etc aren't reflected, or even absorbed, by wings. I know for certain, as I've tested it with friends.
cloak requires u 1 thing to equip to fully use ur build against the guy cloaking ( radiant light, pots) and u can trash the guy. wings on the other hand force u to use 1 skill (destro staff beam) while the rest of ur build is useless.
if u rly want to bring it on par with cloak there should be a debuff. everybody would equip such a skill to use against dk like ppl do against cloak. but there is no such thing to debuff a dk reflect. forcing u to use 1 dmg ability against them while the rest of ur build is useless during the fight.
And the rest of your build isn't useless against cloak? While somebody is in cloak, they're completely untargetable. The only way to pull them out is to slot an AOE (just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile), use detect pots (which are expensive), or slot a detection skill like Magelight or Evil Hunter (again, just like slotting an ability that isn't a projectile).
Again, wings is an expensive skill on a class that is already having issues sustaining. It is not like a DK can indefinitely sustain wings, unless they dedicate all of their resources to keeping it up. If you can survive, which honestly isn't hard due to the fact that you can exploit DK's lack of mobility by kiting them, then eventually they will let their wings drop, in which case you go in for the kill. Not that patient? Slot a stun, prevent them from casting wings in the first place. MagNB is in a tricky spot here, due to the fact that your stun is seemingly classed as a projectile, and I even said that should be looked at, as I'm fairly certain it isn't.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again. I absolutely love how you guys are harping on about DK's wings, when Warden's Shimmering Shield lacks the reflect, but is considerably cheaper, returns magicka whenever it absorbs a projectile, it absorbs a total amount of damage rather than a flat amount of projectiles (means a weak ass light attack won't take up a projectile slot that could have been used for something that actually hits hard), works more consistently, works on more skills, and grants Major Heroism.
This entire thread screams "I don't want or don't know how to counter this one defensive ability, so I want it nerfed into the ground!"
Tell me what is the counter to this skill?
Do not use light attacks? 20% less damage done
Do not use range dots? another 20% less damage
Do not use range spam-able or range high burst skills? (assassin will, frags, snipe)
This skill does have no real counter to it. You can play a little around of it by trying to use some skills that will not be reflected but alone the fact that it reflects the only mag weapon in the game light attacks is op as hell and has no counter.
This skill only reflects projectiles. Not every ranged skill in the game is a projectile.
From my first comment in this thread:Sorc has Curse & Wrath. Templar has jabs, Backlash, beam. Warden has shaulks, the bird (tested, the stamina morph is not reflected), Swarm. NB is a little SOL, and I think the skills in the NB kit need to be revisited in terms of which can be reflected (Cripple being the main one, pretty sure this isn't a projectile, and yet it is affected by wings), though you have Force Pulse, Veiled Strike, and Assassin's Blade. A few ultimates also aren't affected by wings, and I can't think of any proc sets that are affected.
There are counters. Use them. Stop complaining.
That are no counters.
It just means that some kills are unaffected by wings but your damage will still be reduced greatly if anything of your build toolkit can be not applied due to wings. (alone no light attacks = 20% less damage!)
"There are no counters, just things that counter it"Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake3 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭Every BG atm you have 3-4 DKs spamming wings. I get that DKs are happy about their class being strong, but I challenge any of you to play ranged magicka classes into that. It is not fun if more than half of your offensive kit becomes a liability to you.
There is a big problem with the game if a single skill from a single class forces people to completely change their builds/playstyles.
Wings should be a smart counter tool not a 100% uptime defensive buff.
Hopefully the enchant nerf will bring the meta back to a point where people actually have to care about using damage sets if they want to do damage and not have the enchants do all the work for them.1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reflect is the only reason I don't go perma snipe. Snipe consider more OP than wings. So idk.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends2 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭NupidStoob wrote: »Hopefully the enchant nerf will bring the meta back to a point where people actually have to care about using damage sets if they want to do damage and not have the enchants do all the work for them.
But instead let the sets do the work?Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Reflect is the only reason I don't go perma snipe. Snipe consider more OP than wings. So idk.
Dodgeroll is another
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