PvP DLC is long overdue

MattT1988 · November 2018

ProbablePaul wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

there just are not enough pvpers in eso to support the expense of developing more pvp content.
those pvp players have “enough” content in eso as it is. they dont need “more.”
be grateful you have what you have because the elder scrolls is a pve oriented franchise.
the whales, care bears, and casuals are the ones who sub and buy crowns, and we also stay in pve land.
zos has no choice to cater to US.
WE have dlc development on lockdown and it will always be more pve.
you want silly pvp nonsense? go play fortnite or call of duty.

Did you know that this game was marketed as a PvP game initially?

Not the entire truth. The game was definitely marketed as both PvE and PvP.

Gilvoth · November 2018

.

spartaxoxo · November 2018

Battlegrounds was the last PvP centric piece of DLC. This debuted with the Morrowind expansion.

It doesn't matter if it's not the kind you wanted, it is factually PvP that is DLC.

templesus · November 2018

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Battlegrounds was the last PvP centric piece of DLC. This debuted with the Morrowind expansion.

It doesn't matter if it's not the kind you wanted, it is factually PvP that is DLC.

No. It’s not even worth justifying that comment with a true refute.

idk · November 2018

lagrue wrote: »

lol if ZOS ever released a PVP DLC they would bleed money for that Quarter of the year.

Part of what I said earlier. We have already seen it happen.

Besides, a majority of players that came to this game with PvP as their focus left long ago. Many due to the horid state of this game when it launched with more leaving during the first year when it became clear via changes Zos was making that there was as horrid case of mismanagement of this game.

Considering the current state of Cyrodiil it does seem that mismanagement has continues unabated.

Ertosi · November 2018

As many have pointed out correctly, the original premise of a full PvP DLC would be a bad financial choice for ZOS.

IMO their best (with best meaning a great ratio between work needed to implement vs fun added to the game) approach would be to add a new way to PvP that would mesh well with what's already in the game. The last time they did that on the scale I'm thinking of was when they added 1v1 dueling to the game. (Battlegrounds was more recent, but was a much bigger project) Dueling was a great addition as it can be done just about anywhere and adds a bit of life to the game, even for those who don't participate.

One idea for something new that would fit this would be to take the concept of duels and increase the scale from 1v1 to Guild-v-Guild. To start a feud, one guild would have to issue a challenge, then the other would have the option to accept or decline. Feuds would continue for a set amount of time, perhaps a week. All major zones would be valid locations for battling each other; essentially anywhere you can currently duel. A reward system could be added to provide appropriate lootz to all who participate, with the winning guild getting the better stuff. It would help scratch that itch for PvPers in a fun way that would cover all of the major zones, while allowing those that don't want to participate to avoid doing so.

The hardest part IMO of implementing something like this would be deciding on the reward system, to keep it balanced yet have enough incentive for players to join in. It would need to avoid guilds dueling inactive guilds just to get rewards. This could be accomplished by needing certain amounts of active participation on both sides for rewards to activate. But they could come up with some really great rewards. Imagine a guild leaderboard that you could only climb by fighting other guilds with great battle records. They could even set up some new vendors where the highest bid from another guild allows them to challenge the current vendor owners; they then battle all week to see who owns it the following week, making for a great king-of-the-hill kind of ongoing event at each one (and for clarification, not saying this should be for all vendors; saying a select number of new ones working this way could be added). Anyways, the possibilities are endless.

Anotherone773 · November 2018

They should just remove PVP all together. Its poorly done and does nothing but cause problems with the game. They also constantly nerf something in order to attempt to balance PVP and ZOS is horrible at nerfing. Everything they nerf they WAY WAY overdo it to the point of uselessness.

kargen27 · November 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

They should just remove PVP all together. Its poorly done and does nothing but cause problems with the game. They also constantly nerf something in order to attempt to balance PVP and ZOS is horrible at nerfing. Everything they nerf they WAY WAY overdo it to the point of uselessness.

Biggest nerfs were PvE related. We don't have to speculate on that because ZoS admitted that to be true.

Jurand80 · November 2018

Logged in on friday evening. My ping on vivec eu was 200-900. Died to lag. Pressed quit. What pvp dlc? Find a new game.

spartaxoxo · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Battlegrounds was the last PvP centric piece of DLC. This debuted with the Morrowind expansion.

It doesn't matter if it's not the kind you wanted, it is factually PvP that is DLC.

No. It’s not even worth justifying that comment with a true refute.

You can't actually truthfully refute it.

The addition of Battlegrounds being a PvP focused piece of the DLC is fact. And fact trumps your opinion. If you disagree with a fact, you are just wrong.

It so sad these days how many people cling to the idea that their opinions trump reality.

RedRook · November 2018

I'm happy about all the additions to Cyrodiil this year. It might be too little and too late - the PVP population has tanked, and if it ever recovers it won't be soon - but it demonstrates they are actually trying to keep openworld PVP interesting and fun. If it isn't all eclipsed by combat changes and performance issues, maybe they'll keep it up and IC will get a refresh too.

But much as it might be fun to have something completely new, I'd rather they put all their best effort into the splashy new chapter next year, and it be really good and not break significant portions of the game. I think that's a reasonable request and reachable goal. Fun new PVP DLC, not so much.

templesus · November 2018

spartaxoxo wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Battlegrounds was the last PvP centric piece of DLC. This debuted with the Morrowind expansion.

It doesn't matter if it's not the kind you wanted, it is factually PvP that is DLC.

No. It’s not even worth justifying that comment with a true refute.

You can't actually truthfully refute it.

The addition of Battlegrounds being a PvP focused piece of the DLC is fact. And fact trumps your opinion. If you disagree with a fact, you are just wrong.

It so sad these days how many people cling to the idea that their opinions trump reality.

No.

callen4492 · November 2018

BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME!!! I definitely agree that the game’s population would grow and be better maintained if this were an option. As is, Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil are great for the new pvp-ers but they’re very limited in the eyes of end game pvpers.

I want this so bad! This would be so fun and really good for the game. As long as there is an option for no matchmaking, rather fighting the opponent you want. Probably would have to lack substantial rewards for arena matches where you choose your opponent but for most PvPers with a God-given desire to smack down all their opponents and prove that they’re the toughest kid on the block, this would be amazing despite the lack of in-game reward. It would surely keep the innumerable end-game PvPers around for much, much longer.

This would make group duels and guild duels possible and simple. Imagine what a boost this would give to PvP guilds! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO THIS!!!

Rake · November 2018

yes

goldenflameslinger · November 2018

PVE and PVP are so far apart, they almost don’t fit in the same game. PVP could really be broken off on its own. The sets, builds, play styles, etc. are on totally opposite ends of the spectrum. PVP should at least have its own dedicated dev team and server infrastructure.

Gilvoth · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

Anyone who knows Lore care to share where an open world PvP zone could take place?

the ashlands with the ashlanders
or preferably lore title "GrazeLands"

the open world pvp would be perfect in the grazeland areas and fit lore because ashlanders are well known for their instant attacks of anyone whom has the gull to go near thier homes.
they have nothing but hatred for all peoples unless you know them personaly.

Bruccius · November 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Anyone who knows Lore care to share where an open world PvP zone could take place?

the ashlands with the ashlanders
or preferably lore title "GrazeLands"

the open world pvp would be perfect in the grazeland areas and fit lore because ashlanders are well known for their instant attacks of anyone whom has the gull to go near thier homes.
they have nothing but hatred for all peoples unless you know them personaly.

Only issue here is how to turn it into a PvP zone at all? As said, the Ashlanders generally have a hatred for those who aren't them, and Ashlanders are Dunmer. Would this be a zone of Dunmer vs the other races? Can't see that working out well.

Bam_Bam · November 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

They should just remove PVP all together. Its poorly done and does nothing but cause problems with the game. They also constantly nerf something in order to attempt to balance PVP and ZOS is horrible at nerfing. Everything they nerf they WAY WAY overdo it to the point of uselessness.

Remove it? Because you don't like it?

For all of its problems, there's a PVP community who still enjoy it more than any other aspect of the game.

Bruccius · November 2018

Not to bash on PvP or anything, but isn't the PvP community, relatively, small? I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?

I guess a PvP DLC could be made, somehow, but where? I mean, the few bits of Cyrodiil that haven't been covered yet are ripe with potential lore, and Elsweyr is too far south to be made into a proper PvP zone.

Perhaps some sort of Arena element, like they had in TES IV? And then have a seperated PvP ranking and PvE ranking system or something? Kind of like an Alliance War tournament? May sound a bit stupid, but just for the sake of an idea.

Or perhaps some sort of naval warfare? The seas of Tamriel haven't really been used, and they do have potential. Though an entirely new seafaring mechanic may be a bit overkill to be designed from nothing for the smaller part of the playerbase.

Don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

SugaComa · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So, battlegrounds don't count...but you want more battlegrounds?

Arenas aren’t Battlegrounds. Those are 2 separate entities in every MMO in existence.

Here is a clip of a 3v3 arena for anyone unsure as to what they are. https://youtu.be/LYCdZIHDRwY

Esentially they are ranked best of 3 matches where each team gets 1 life per person. Various abilities etc are disabled and usually it is equalized gear. They are very competitive and considered the highest level of skill based PvP in most MMOs.

Of course they also have non ranked, which are casual matches “for fun” for those who wish to take part in that.

Buy a ps2 and play socom

You will need an adapter to connect to the specialised server that's been created ...

This all started with socom why not go play the original

Ps ...petition Sony for a socom hd rerelease too

ChunkyCat · November 2018

More people would use Imperial City if they didn’t have to run through Cyrodiil to get there. If we could just Wayshrine directly into Imperial City, it wouldn’t be the ghost town it is now.

Making fast Queue times for new players/characters for BGs was a step in the righ direction for that venue. However, that same Queue mechanic also punishes players who regularly play BGs. The more BG matches your character plays, the longer your queue wait times become. I have characters with an average wait of 25 minutes, but new characters get a match within seconds, if not minutes. Seems counter productive.

I’d rather they fix those two aspects (Imperial City and BGs) before they add any new PvP areas.

Ruckly · November 2018

Add oblivion gates to cyrodill like the gates in HOMM3. The only real limit to creativity in an oblivion pocket plane is gravity pointing down. e.g. Oblivion gate at ales environs---> oblivion plane with with aoe heals cut in half---> oblivion gate at dragon claw environs. Same with the other pivot/corner keeps. The idea being to make heal stacking weak in these shortcuts so zergs get disintegrated by aoe ults and have to break formation. This doesn't require a dlc to implement.

idk · November 2018

Ertosi wrote: »

IMO their best (with best meaning a great ratio between work needed to implement vs fun added to the game) approach would be to add a new way to PvP that would mesh well with what's already in the game. The last time they did that on the scale I'm thinking of was when they added 1v1 dueling to the game. (Battlegrounds was more recent, but was a much bigger project) Dueling was a great addition as it can be done just about anywhere and adds a bit of life to the game, even for those who don't participate.

Battlegrounds was clearly a failure as paid content since Zos has to move it to the base game.

So best should mean, great ratio between work needed and financial return as that is what Zos will look at. Again, BGs were a failure in that respect, yet offered the best hope.

On a side not, since you did bring it up, dueling is hardly enjoyable addition to the game for those that do not participate. The occasional thread complaining about dueling in populated areas is probably a good sign. I recall loading in onto the PTS with a template character, sorting through gear to equip. Some dude kept trying to challenge me to a duel. I had no gear on, lol. I moved a good distance away and out of LoS, yet the person found me again and challenged me. I questioned the intelligence of someone who would go to such lengths to challenge a naked character. That is probably what many that do not participate in duels deal with regularly.

templesus · November 2018

Bruccius wrote: »

Not to bash on PvP or anything, but isn't the PvP community, relatively, small? I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?

I guess a PvP DLC could be made, somehow, but where? I mean, the few bits of Cyrodiil that haven't been covered yet are ripe with potential lore, and Elsweyr is too far south to be made into a proper PvP zone.

Perhaps some sort of Arena element, like they had in TES IV? And then have a seperated PvP ranking and PvE ranking system or something? Kind of like an Alliance War tournament? May sound a bit stupid, but just for the sake of an idea.

Or perhaps some sort of naval warfare? The seas of Tamriel haven't really been used, and they do have potential. Though an entirely new seafaring mechanic may be a bit overkill to be designed from nothing for the smaller part of the playerbase.

Don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

Did you even read the original post?

Bruccius · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Not to bash on PvP or anything, but isn't the PvP community, relatively, small? I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?

I guess a PvP DLC could be made, somehow, but where? I mean, the few bits of Cyrodiil that haven't been covered yet are ripe with potential lore, and Elsweyr is too far south to be made into a proper PvP zone.

Perhaps some sort of Arena element, like they had in TES IV? And then have a seperated PvP ranking and PvE ranking system or something? Kind of like an Alliance War tournament? May sound a bit stupid, but just for the sake of an idea.

Or perhaps some sort of naval warfare? The seas of Tamriel haven't really been used, and they do have potential. Though an entirely new seafaring mechanic may be a bit overkill to be designed from nothing for the smaller part of the playerbase.

Don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read my comment?

Here, I'll quote it since you clearly did not:

''I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?''

There won't be another IC, deal with it.

templesus · November 2018

Bruccius wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Not to bash on PvP or anything, but isn't the PvP community, relatively, small? I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?

I guess a PvP DLC could be made, somehow, but where? I mean, the few bits of Cyrodiil that haven't been covered yet are ripe with potential lore, and Elsweyr is too far south to be made into a proper PvP zone.

Perhaps some sort of Arena element, like they had in TES IV? And then have a seperated PvP ranking and PvE ranking system or something? Kind of like an Alliance War tournament? May sound a bit stupid, but just for the sake of an idea.

Or perhaps some sort of naval warfare? The seas of Tamriel haven't really been used, and they do have potential. Though an entirely new seafaring mechanic may be a bit overkill to be designed from nothing for the smaller part of the playerbase.

Don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read my comment?

Here, I'll quote it since you clearly did not:

''I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?''

There won't be another IC, deal with it.

That part has no reference to me asking if you read the original comment. The reason I asked is because you said you were “just throwing out ideas” and one of them was an Arena, which was literally one of the proposed ideas in the original post.

Clearly you didn’t read the original post.

Tandor · November 2018

Ertosi wrote: »

As many have pointed out correctly, the original premise of a full PvP DLC would be a bad financial choice for ZOS.

IMO their best (with best meaning a great ratio between work needed to implement vs fun added to the game) approach would be to add a new way to PvP that would mesh well with what's already in the game. The last time they did that on the scale I'm thinking of was when they added 1v1 dueling to the game. (Battlegrounds was more recent, but was a much bigger project) Dueling was a great addition as it can be done just about anywhere and adds a bit of life to the game, even for those who don't participate.

One idea for something new that would fit this would be to take the concept of duels and increase the scale from 1v1 to Guild-v-Guild. To start a feud, one guild would have to issue a challenge, then the other would have the option to accept or decline. Feuds would continue for a set amount of time, perhaps a week. All major zones would be valid locations for battling each other; essentially anywhere you can currently duel. A reward system could be added to provide appropriate lootz to all who participate, with the winning guild getting the better stuff. It would help scratch that itch for PvPers in a fun way that would cover all of the major zones, while allowing those that don't want to participate to avoid doing so.

The hardest part IMO of implementing something like this would be deciding on the reward system, to keep it balanced yet have enough incentive for players to join in. It would need to avoid guilds dueling inactive guilds just to get rewards. This could be accomplished by needing certain amounts of active participation on both sides for rewards to activate. But they could come up with some really great rewards. Imagine a guild leaderboard that you could only climb by fighting other guilds with great battle records. They could even set up some new vendors where the highest bid from another guild allows them to challenge the current vendor owners; they then battle all week to see who owns it the following week, making for a great king-of-the-hill kind of ongoing event at each one (and for clarification, not saying this should be for all vendors; saying a select number of new ones working this way could be added). Anyways, the possibilities are endless.

Oh great, two guilds battling it out at Vulkhel Guard wayshrine. What a brilliant idea.

Keep Cyrodiil performance in Cryodiil please! By all means have some sort of Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds campaign that is specifically guild versus guild, but keep it completely outside PvE zones.

ATomiX96 · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So, battlegrounds don't count...but you want more battlegrounds?

Arenas aren’t Battlegrounds. Those are 2 separate entities in every MMO in existence.

Here is a clip of a 3v3 arena for anyone unsure as to what they are. https://youtu.be/LYCdZIHDRwY

Esentially they are ranked best of 3 matches where each team gets 1 life per person. Various abilities etc are disabled and usually it is equalized gear. They are very competitive and considered the highest level of skill based PvP in most MMOs.

Of course they also have non ranked, which are casual matches “for fun” for those who wish to take part in that.

Well the 1 life thing isnt 100% true sometimes (like once in a hundred games) you can get off a rezz which takes like 10 seconds to do, compared to the 2 seconds you need in ESO
Equalized gear also isnt a thing anymore since templates got removed in BfA prepatch.
It would be nice to see 3v3 and 2v2 BG-Modes, but ppl would get upset and start forum threads after 2 days running into the same couples/setups/builds over and over again. #metahumpers
ESO will never be in a competetive state and clearly isnt meant to ever be.
Id rather see the devs figuring out how to salvage cyrodiils performance issues during evenings / prime time.
Also dont compare apples with oranges, WOW and ESO are different MMOs and keep them unique and good in their own way.

Bruccius · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Not to bash on PvP or anything, but isn't the PvP community, relatively, small? I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?

I guess a PvP DLC could be made, somehow, but where? I mean, the few bits of Cyrodiil that haven't been covered yet are ripe with potential lore, and Elsweyr is too far south to be made into a proper PvP zone.

Perhaps some sort of Arena element, like they had in TES IV? And then have a seperated PvP ranking and PvE ranking system or something? Kind of like an Alliance War tournament? May sound a bit stupid, but just for the sake of an idea.

Or perhaps some sort of naval warfare? The seas of Tamriel haven't really been used, and they do have potential. Though an entirely new seafaring mechanic may be a bit overkill to be designed from nothing for the smaller part of the playerbase.

Don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read my comment?

Here, I'll quote it since you clearly did not:

''I mean, how big a PvP DLC can be expected if the PvP playerbase is a minority?''

There won't be another IC, deal with it.

That part has no reference to me asking if you read the original comment. The reason I asked is because you said you were “just throwing out ideas” and one of them was an Arena, which was literally one of the proposed ideas in the original post.

Clearly you didn’t read the original post.

I don't think you understand what I meant with an Arena. Did you read, by any chance, the like they had in TES IV part? That's not just ''4v4, 5v5'', then again, you clearly haven't played Oblivion, leading to you coming to this conclusion.