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Stupid question of the day - ability animation cancelling?
daemondamian
✭✭✭✭
I know you can start a light weapon attack and then cancel the animation by using an ability but still get the damage of that attack but say for example with dual wield skills you use the Flurry-Bloodthirst ability - do you have to let that ability animation play out for it's full duration to do all the damage that ability is supposed to do or can you rehit the same ability shortcut again immediately after pressing it to apply that abilities damage again straightaway?
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Vuron✭✭✭✭✭Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.1 -
Bherdani✭✭✭Light attack weaving and animation cancelling are not the same thing, they are two different RL skills you can master to maximize DPS. Weaving is shooting off a light attack prior to every skill you fire (and even before or after barswapping) while animation cancelling is when the player skips the mini cutscene for a skill because ain't nobody got time for that.
t3hasiangod on YouTube has probably the best explanation I've seen in all these years. Something for players of every skill level to learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SE1jxjAQfE
Edited by Bherdani on November 1, 2018 4:26PMNightfighters - Legion of the Bloodworks
www.elderscrubsonline.com
NO PARKING IN THE RED
Proud member of The Psijic Order - Team 0.016%2 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Flurry can’t be canceled. Channeled stuff has to play through. I think. Instant cast stuff can be block canceled.0 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
Are you sure about block? I thought that stam regen thing only happened if you actually block something.
And back at the OP...
Only instant abilities that have an animation can be cancelled and still hit for the full amount. Flurry is 0.6 second attack and can be cancelled with a block, bash, dodge or bar swap if you must for defensive purposes but you loose any remaining hits that haven't happened yet when you do. Same for any other channeled ability. And if you cancel an ability with a cast time it will just not fire.0 -
twofaced✭✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »Flurry can’t be canceled. Channeled stuff has to play through. I think. Instant cast stuff can be block canceled.
haha, literally were arguing for two days about it in my other topic. Your statement is wrong. Channeled and cast time skills can be canceled. If you block cancel it during cast time you loose cast itself or some hits. But you definitely should blockcancel after last hit/skill fires off for the same reason as you blockcancel instant skills.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Bar swapping is the most common means to animation cancel. Many players probably do not even realize they are animation canceling a skill when they bar swap it is so common.
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twofaced✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »I know you can start a light weapon attack and then cancel the animation by using an ability but still get the damage of that attack but say for example with dual wield skills you use the Flurry-Bloodthirst ability - do you have to let that ability animation play out for it's full duration to do all the damage that ability is supposed to do or can you rehit the same ability shortcut again immediately after pressing it to apply that abilities damage again straightaway?
As for your question. Basically between you press two skills should be 1 sec, You can also LA in between if you are in correct pose (usually after block, that's why you cancel animation). But there MUCH MORE different stuff like skill queue, swap delay, cast time and such. Check my posts for more info, but I warn you this is the deepest swamp of MMO.0 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭Thank you everyone for your replies, help and the linked video.
I knew you could recast/spam some things like Mages wrath, and Crushing Shock, but I just started using the Dual Wield skill line on my stamwarden and wasn't sure about Bloodthirst needing to play the whole animation to do it's full damage but the differentiation between channeled and instant abilities makes sense.
I was using Bloodthirst as I read someone saying it had a better heal then Bloodcraze but I've also read people saying not to use it after leveling the skill line up and that it resulted in lower dps overall so I switched to Bloodcraze and I use Resolving Vigor and Lotus Blossum too.
I've tried weaving light attacks in between steel tornado and I think I'm doing it right because it says my dps is higher in combat metrics than when I just use steel tornado by itself.
My reflexes, and eye hand coordination aren't so great so I think weaving in a light attack between steel tornado is about my limit lol.
I've looked into some game mechanics and it's like a giant jigsaw puzzle of juggling chainsaws - changing one thing here changes that thing there but in the end you can change a lot of things to achieve the same result but in a different configuration.
At a certain point treating it all like a mathematical formula for me starts to take away from the simple fun of playing the game just to relax and entertain myself - so thanks but I think I'll just stick to the shallows
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭you get higher numbers at the low cost of the the rest of the game.Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭you get higher numbers at the low cost of the the rest of the game.
Could you possibly expand on what exactly you mean by this? It probably makes perfect sense and is a simple as 2x2=4 but I'm currently sleep deprived and struggling to understand what you're referring to.
Higher numbers is dps? You can get higher dps by the low cost of knowing more and enjoying less of the rest of the game or you can get higher dps by the low cost of knowing more about the rest of the game?
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭the game cant be balanced with this system in place. i.e the rest of the game.
you see its symptoms as a lack of tanks in the groupfinder due to poor average dps, no one doing dlc dungeons, getting one(three)shot in pvp and being forced to wear heavy armor. Dungeons are facerolls or too hard because your dps is either way to weak or too strong. Avoiding mechanics, healers not needed, tanks not needed. This is the core reason why everything is so lopsided.
its a terrible system but since it results in higher numbers (for a few) it is defended to the death. They need a better system everyone can use. Even you are pulling back already.Edited by Rungar on November 2, 2018 11:16AMOld Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard2 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.
Block stops stam regen. That is a fact lol. Whetever you manage to hit that block in middle of regen ticks (to not get regen tick while you have that 0.2s of 0 regen) is something totally else.
And no skill is worth block cancelling (in pve rotation)Edited by SodanTok on November 2, 2018 11:56AM1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.
Block stops stam regen. That is a fact lol. Whetever you manage to hit that block in middle of regen ticks (to not get regen tick while you have that 0.2s of 0 regen) is something totally else.
And no skill is worth block cancelling (in pve rotation)
I have tested this, it doesnt, it's false. It's just that if you block cancel and take damage you actually block something, that cancels it. Go get to a target dummy drain your stam and block cancel, you will regen. This is the most false statement ever0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.
Block stops stam regen. That is a fact lol. Whetever you manage to hit that block in middle of regen ticks (to not get regen tick while you have that 0.2s of 0 regen) is something totally else.
And no skill is worth block cancelling (in pve rotation)
I have tested this, it doesnt, it's false. It's just that if you block cancel and take damage you actually block something, that cancels it. Go get to a target dummy drain your stam and block cancel, you will regen. This is the most false statement ever
Of course you will regen lol. Block cancelling is making you block for like 0.05-0.2s DURING THIS TIME there is 0 regen. Regen ticks happen every 2s. If you block cancel only between those ticks you will never lose regen and if you block cancel during those ticks every time you will lose regen every time0 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.
Block stops stam regen. That is a fact lol. Whetever you manage to hit that block in middle of regen ticks (to not get regen tick while you have that 0.2s of 0 regen) is something totally else.
And no skill is worth block cancelling (in pve rotation)
I have tested this, it doesnt, it's false. It's just that if you block cancel and take damage you actually block something, that cancels it. Go get to a target dummy drain your stam and block cancel, you will regen. This is the most false statement ever
Of course you will regen lol. Block cancelling is making you block for like 0.05-0.2s DURING THIS TIME there is 0 regen. Regen ticks happen every 2s. If you block cancel only between those ticks you will never lose regen and if you block cancel during those ticks every time you will lose regen every time
You realize you just argued with me then proved my point right?0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No question is a stupid question otherwise you will never know and say stuffs like this next statement
"Block cancel stops stam regen"
Block canceling does not stop stam regen, this is the most parrot'ed false claim I see.
Channeled skills can not be animation canceled flurry is a channeled skill so you need to let it roll.
Block stops stam regen. That is a fact lol. Whetever you manage to hit that block in middle of regen ticks (to not get regen tick while you have that 0.2s of 0 regen) is something totally else.
And no skill is worth block cancelling (in pve rotation)
I have tested this, it doesnt, it's false. It's just that if you block cancel and take damage you actually block something, that cancels it. Go get to a target dummy drain your stam and block cancel, you will regen. This is the most false statement ever
Of course you will regen lol. Block cancelling is making you block for like 0.05-0.2s DURING THIS TIME there is 0 regen. Regen ticks happen every 2s. If you block cancel only between those ticks you will never lose regen and if you block cancel during those ticks every time you will lose regen every time
You realize you just argued with me then proved my point right?
How did I proved your point? Block cancelling does indeed cause losing stam regen. That was my point and that is still standing. Fact that it doesnt happen everytime, one that is purely based on luck. is something else.Edited by SodanTok on November 2, 2018 1:47PM2 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.
I’ll double check this evening, but last time I tested it appeared that the regen timer was stopped during the entire duration block was up, then started counting from 0 as soon as block was released. Once it hit 2s the first regen tick would restore stamina. I guess it’s possible this was changed (or I was just very unlucky with timing during testing) to what you are describing as a constantly running timer that ticks for regen as long as you are not holding block at the moment the 2s interval hits.
I don’t think it really matters either way TBH. Block canceling is not useful in PVE DPS rotations, and will cause you to lose out on some stamina regen.1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.
I’ll double check this evening, but last time I tested it appeared that the regen timer was stopped during the entire duration block was up, then started counting from 0 as soon as block was released. Once it hit 2s the first regen tick would restore stamina. I guess it’s possible this was changed (or I was just very unlucky with timing during testing) to what you are describing as a constantly running timer that ticks for regen as long as you are not holding block at the moment the 2s interval hits.
I don’t think it really matters either way TBH. Block canceling is not useful in PVE DPS rotations, and will cause you to lose out on some stamina regen.
Lol I agree with that, block cancel is useless outside of pvp2 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.
I’ll double check this evening, but last time I tested it appeared that the regen timer was stopped during the entire duration block was up, then started counting from 0 as soon as block was released. Once it hit 2s the first regen tick would restore stamina. I guess it’s possible this was changed (or I was just very unlucky with timing during testing) to what you are describing as a constantly running timer that ticks for regen as long as you are not holding block at the moment the 2s interval hits.
I don’t think it really matters either way TBH. Block canceling is not useful in PVE DPS rotations, and will cause you to lose out on some stamina regen.
Seems to me it should be pretty easy to test: just sprint around to drain your stamina and then just hold block. Do you regen or not?0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.
I’ll double check this evening, but last time I tested it appeared that the regen timer was stopped during the entire duration block was up, then started counting from 0 as soon as block was released. Once it hit 2s the first regen tick would restore stamina. I guess it’s possible this was changed (or I was just very unlucky with timing during testing) to what you are describing as a constantly running timer that ticks for regen as long as you are not holding block at the moment the 2s interval hits.
I don’t think it really matters either way TBH. Block canceling is not useful in PVE DPS rotations, and will cause you to lose out on some stamina regen.
Seems to me it should be pretty easy to test: just sprint around to drain your stamina and then just hold block. Do you regen or not?
You do not regen while holding block. The detail we’re debating is whether the first stamina regen tick is exactly 2s after releasing block, or if it can randomly fall anywhere between 0 and 2s after release. This is the difference between losing all regen or just some of block canceling several skills in a row.0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭the game cant be balanced with this system in place. i.e the rest of the game.
you see its symptoms as a lack of tanks in the groupfinder due to poor average dps, no one doing dlc dungeons, getting one(three)shot in pvp and being forced to wear heavy armor. Dungeons are facerolls or too hard because your dps is either way to weak or too strong. Avoiding mechanics, healers not needed, tanks not needed. This is the core reason why everything is so lopsided.
its a terrible system but since it results in higher numbers (for a few) it is defended to the death. They need a better system everyone can use. Even you are pulling back already.
Cuz it's hard to hit like your 1 key and immediately hit bar swap or block (obviously not recommended). Or hit left click and the 1 key followed by another left click. 5-10 mins a day practicing and you'd have it down.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Light attacks and abilities have an internal cooldown so you can't just cancel as fast as you can click to fire off another.
You can cancel skill animations by hitting block if it works the same way as it did 4 years ago.
Some animations can be cancelled with block but I don’t recommend doing this. Blocking stops all stamina regen for the next 2s, so any rotation with block cancelling quickly becomes unsustainable.
Light attack weaving and cancelling long skill animations with a bar swap are the only effective methods IMO.
This is what I said is false. And you aagree and reinforce my point while trying to argue with me.
I’ll double check this evening, but last time I tested it appeared that the regen timer was stopped during the entire duration block was up, then started counting from 0 as soon as block was released. Once it hit 2s the first regen tick would restore stamina. I guess it’s possible this was changed (or I was just very unlucky with timing during testing) to what you are describing as a constantly running timer that ticks for regen as long as you are not holding block at the moment the 2s interval hits.
I don’t think it really matters either way TBH. Block canceling is not useful in PVE DPS rotations, and will cause you to lose out on some stamina regen.
Seems to me it should be pretty easy to test: just sprint around to drain your stamina and then just hold block. Do you regen or not?
You do not regen while holding block. The detail we’re debating is whether the first stamina regen tick is exactly 2s after releasing block, or if it can randomly fall anywhere between 0 and 2s after release. This is the difference between losing all regen or just some of block canceling several skills in a row.
It should be, same as sprint or sneak, just random 'debuff' that sets your regen to 0 for its duration. If you manage (basically near impossible to predict) within ticks, you wont lose anything, but anyway its just PVP thing0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the game cant be balanced with this system in place. i.e the rest of the game.
you see its symptoms as a lack of tanks in the groupfinder due to poor average dps, no one doing dlc dungeons, getting one(three)shot in pvp and being forced to wear heavy armor. Dungeons are facerolls or too hard because your dps is either way to weak or too strong. Avoiding mechanics, healers not needed, tanks not needed. This is the core reason why everything is so lopsided.
its a terrible system but since it results in higher numbers (for a few) it is defended to the death. They need a better system everyone can use. Even you are pulling back already.
This makes no sense. It mostly seem to talk to players being skilled or not, but pretty much any content in the game can be cleared without animation canceling.
Sorry, it just sounds more like a rant without any clarity.
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭it doesnt affect me i play a tank. i just watch people struggle with the combat system and think it needs a change.
think about the average player here. Queues up for 30 min. Gets me as tank. I see on the first pull the group cant possibly complete the content. Sometimes i stay( i used to always see it through) but more often nowadays i just leave so they get to wait again. My tank does a max 5kdps and carrying is often not reasonable.
the advise around here is:
-stop using the group finder
-learn to play
i think something is broken here but nice try on the projection.
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭it doesnt affect me i play a tank. i just watch people struggle with the combat system and think it needs a change.
think about the average player here. Queues up for 30 min. Gets me as tank. I see on the first pull the group cant possibly complete the content. Sometimes i stay( i used to always see it through) but more often nowadays i just leave so they get to wait again. My tank does a max 5kdps and carrying is often not reasonable.
the advise around here is:
-stop using the group finder
-learn to play
i think something is broken here but nice try on the projection.
I've extensively discussed this with you in your own thread, but you seem to not get it, which is why I stopped. What you're referring to is not due to animation cancelling, rather the fact that the game sucks at educating players.
You're a tank. You're not meant to carry the team. That is not your role. If you want your team to succeed, solve the actual problem here, not something unrelated.
The reason why people don't do DLC dungeons much in the group finder is because they're a step up in difficulty, and most people in the group finder don't want to deal with that. Nothing to do with animation cancelling, everything to do with the attitudes of players in this game.
Getting one (two, or three) shot in PVP is due to broken metas and certain classes offering extremely high burst. Broken metas, like the current enchant meta, are inevitably going to be fixed, so players can't crutch on them forever. Which leaves us with certain classes offering extremely high burst. These classes excel at burst, but fall short in other areas, simply due to the nature of PVP balancing. Now, yes, some classes are too strong, and offer extremely high burst with good survivability, good sustain, and good pressure. But the answer is to adjust these classes, not animation cancelling.
The disparity in DPS is, again, due to the game doing a *** job at educating players, and the constant power creep that Zenimax continues to ignore. The floor is as low as it is because the game does a *** job at educating players. The ceiling is as high as is does because of constant power creep, due to CP continuing to rise, reworking mechanics to push higher DPS (light attack weaving being buffed with Summerset, which I am actually against), and the introduction of stronger and stronger sets (see Siroria, Relequen, Zaan, etc). None of these are due to animation cancelling, but Zenimax giving new tools to top players, or buffing existing tools.
Avoiding mechanics is due to players having record high DPS, due to constant power creep. Healers being unwanted is due to the prevalence of one-shots, which healers can't heal through no matter how hard they try, and a DPS being infinitely more valuable due to the extra 50k+ DPS they can bring to the table. Tanks being unwanted I'm skeptical about, since the tank is the only person in the group who can survive the damage from the boss, but if I'm wrong and they are unwanted, it would largely be for the same reasons as healers are unwanted, mainly the fact that a DPS is infinitely more valuable due to the extra 50k+ DPS they can bring to the table. None of these are caused by animation cancelling.
Your entire argument is invalidated when you consider that animation cancelling has been in the game since inception, and just a year ago 40k was considered high. Two years ago, 30k was considered high. Nowadays, DPS are hitting double these in organised groups. Animation cancelling has largely remained a constant, and yet DPS has continued to rise. Sure, Summerset buffed light attack weaving, which is a reason why DPS is so high right now, but even before that, DPS was rising.
You're on a nonsensical crusade against something you admittedly have no idea about, since you're a tank. You don't know how it works, how it influences builds, and you have no idea of the implications of removing it. Please, just stop.
EDIT: Also, what's with the abundance of new lines at the bottom of your post?Edited by jcm2606 on November 3, 2018 1:09AM2
