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Mag Sorc, Adapting

mairwen85
mairwen85
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Playing on console means I haven't had the Murkemire DLC and all its 'fixes' yet. In the interim, I've been trying to preemptively re-spec and make adaptations to my build. I've actively un-slotted any shield from my barred skills, but kept my damage dealing abilities. I've kept my armor set up, 5 light, 1 heavy, 1 med, but now with health enchants on chest and legs, stamina on head, the rest magicka, rings are one arcane, one spell cost reduction, necklace is bloodthirsty. (I don't do, have never done, pets). My general tactic has always been surviveability through mobility, so my goal is to increase and leverage mobility for both survival and damage.

Now playing solely PVE, I use no castable shield at all (compensating by investing in psjic skill line for the block shield)-- do I die more, no, but I also don't die any less (a good sign, I think) -- am I a better player for it, no (or not yet anyway); but I am having to play somewhat more strategically. The result is a decrease in overall damage due to an increase in required mobility (not that I ever stood persistently in red, but I would delay moving to mete out a few good hits, cast a shield, roll away and cast dark conversion before re-stancing for my rotation); I am rolling around a lot more and when low on stam, literally leaping to safety(!), and generally being further back from the melee area as before* -- this isn't always the safest scenario as it means being further away from HoTs (usually focused on close combat dps and Tanks, which I have to roll/jump into for group healing when necessary). Seeing as my rotation spammable is Elemental Weapon > Light Attack (4x initiated with Power Surge before bar swap to DoTs on back bar), to counter the decrease in damage, I've started looking at changing my mundus to one which will increase my critical chance and critical damage output with either or both weapon and spell (I'm thinking maybe Thief?), or maybe Lover for greater penetration. I've already set my main set to Mechanical Acuity to buff crits, have BSW jewellery, monster set is usually Ilambris, but I have been toying with Zaan and Skoria. Casting Channelled Acceleration between trash mobs and before bosses has also been a good help so far (can't keep 100% up time due to cast duration). So far I've lost ~2k on 3mil dummy with this new gear set up.

What I'd like is some feedback from anyone on PC who's played Murkmire, on whether this looks to be heading in the right direction, or some advice on further tweaks if my ideas are off tangent with the changes made in the patch.

Thanks in advance.

*for context, my play-style on mobs is usually more aggressive, throwing LL, close in for WoE, plant HC on the biggest bad, roll away and destructive reach projectile whatever's still standing. Same but rinse-repeat against Boss (replacing Destructive Reach with EW sequence)
Edited by mairwen85 on November 1, 2018 8:34AM
  • Vahrokh
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    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.
  • Lord_Wrath
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    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    This is what ive been hearing, even one saying you dont even need a shield for pve, and exactly my concern are those specific mechanics where you just are going to take a lot of damage. Though I think health/resistance factors will be more important in pvp?

    I havent had time for serious play and testing. Ive upped my health and resistances and killed some overland bosses and soloed some normal dungeons. Its a dps loss but the survivability is really nice. So again, when you get to serious content what are people doing for those oh **** moments?
    1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
    Launch Player - PC - NA - EP
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence
  • Zedrian
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    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Zedrian wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.

    Easy. It is healers job. And if the 2 healers you brought aren't up to the task, maybe drop a dps and bring another healer. But really. Those 2 examples are literally like .2% of the game. The rest of the time, the stuff I play, you don't need them.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 2, 2018 9:12AM
  • Kel
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    Zedrian wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.

    Easy. It is healers job. And if the 2 healers you brought aren't up to the task, maybe drop a dps and bring another healer. But really. Those 2 examples are literally like .2% of the game. The rest of the time, the stuff I play, you don't need them.

    Even healers need to block on the warrior storm phase. Can't just heal through that...I'm assuming you've never done it, so might not know? So, not "easy, it's the healers job..." What's easy is writing off things as unimportant because you personally don't do them. Doesn't change the fact it's going to be an issue.
  • Zedrian
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    Zedrian wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.

    Easy. It is healers job. And if the 2 healers you brought aren't up to the task, maybe drop a dps and bring another healer. But really. Those 2 examples are literally like .2% of the game. The rest of the time, the stuff I play, you don't need them.

    Your personal experience is not representative of all the players on the game. Vet Trials are 60% of my time on the game. If I don't trial one night, I don't play the game. Funny thing, all the other players in our guild are the same.

    One shehai storm meteor is a direct damage that can exceed 18k damage and even more when blocking. In vMoL HM the projectiles coming in from the center can hit anywhere from 6-12k damage and if you add in the meteors, your healers won't even have the chance to heal you in time. in vMoL again, when you have the bomb you will get stunned and if you don't put a ward before, and meteors hit you, you will die. Survival is key in trials and that is why we include harness magicka in a rotation to make sure we have it up as much as possible. Thank you for the response, but it would be nice to have some feedback from someone that does have experience in Hard mode content.
    Edited by Zedrian on November 2, 2018 9:43AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    You all seem to have a bias and are not willing to think outside the box. Good day.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 2, 2018 10:21AM
  • Kikke
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    how to cope with murkmire;
    - up your health from 15k to 18k
    - be better at avoiding dmg
    - Ice heart monster set gives a 8k shield every rotation
    - Psijic skill line shield on block 5k
    - Use surge for heals if healer is slacking

    Have already done vHRC HM without shield, it's doable. Keep surge up and heal the dmg taken before next hit.
    vMoL HM without a shield is just as 'easy' as long as healers are doing their job.

    vCR+3 tho..... Using Ice heart, psijic shield passive, ward and surge! and it's barely enough. If healer slacks of a moment I'm dead xD
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • Zedrian
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    kikkehs wrote: »
    how to cope with murkmire;
    - up your health from 15k to 18k
    - be better at avoiding dmg
    - Ice heart monster set gives a 8k shield every rotation
    - Psijic skill line shield on block 5k
    - Use surge for heals if healer is slacking

    Have already done vHRC HM without shield, it's doable. Keep surge up and heal the dmg taken before next hit.
    vMoL HM without a shield is just as 'easy' as long as healers are doing their job.

    vCR+3 tho..... Using Ice heart, psijic shield passive, ward and surge! and it's barely enough. If healer slacks of a moment I'm dead xD

    Interesting, I will give this a try. So a tradeoff of dps for health and iceaheart.
    I actually play MagBlade recently with refreshing path (Wolfhunter patch PS4), so I have my own HoT on top of heals, and I also have the psijic shield passive and 18k health with Ebon passive. Anxious to see the release on PS4 next week.

    Thanks
  • WuffyCerulei
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    My pvp build hasn't changed too much. Just wearing impen and whatnot now.
    For end-game trials and stuff, shields are still needed. Very few people (and they're the leetist of the leets) go without a shield as a magicka dps.
    Praying to Alkosh and Khenarthi that Sorcerer rework gives more build variety
  • Vahrokh
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    Zedrian wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.

    Done 2 days ago:

    YxaCDwn.jpg
    Edited by Vahrokh on November 2, 2018 12:52PM
  • mairwen85
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    Thanks for the input so far, much appreciated. My main concern with shields is the false assumption that all mag sorcs do is throw up a few shields and stand static in stupid ignoring mechanics and robotically fire projectiles. This simply isn't true, at least, has never been the case for me... I never found shields that OP tbh. I only ever used shields as a barrier to heal/resource manage behind - - or tactically to allow manoeuvring without the heavy stam cost, or enhance block. Knowing that I am soon to lose that extra influence I have on my immediate environment is worrying (because size does matter in this case, 40%-50% may/will not be enough). Hence my efforts to counteract without forcing a complete change in play style. Could be I'm overreacting, assuming the worst, but I'd rather be wary.

    I like the iceheart suggestion, will have a play with that.
    Edited by mairwen85 on November 3, 2018 3:43PM
  • AcadianPaladin
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    I'm primarily a solo pve player and used to run a heavy attack magsorc who kept blockade and lightning flood on the ground. Her dps was adequate but, more importantly, her sustain and survivability were good. Her sustain came from heavy attacks. Her survivability came from empowered ward (fueled by a strong focus on magicka pool size at the expense of spell damage, mag regen & crit), surge, boundless, matriarch and 18.5k health. She was not a fast killer but pretty reliable and durable. And she was built just perfectly for my style of play. She was as good (not better) than my best other characters before the nerf to her empowered ward.

    I have made the following adjustments: boosted health and resists, gone to a shielding staff (infused with hardened) on her front bar, slotted the psijic ult on her front bar to get the psijic block passive. She can survive but is significantly weaker than she was before. Her once powerful shield that protected her matriarch no longer does the job in overland content like world bosses. More specifically, she no longer can compare to my best other characters. She is now in the second tier (at best). She is no better now than my bow/bow stamsorc - and I don't think too many folks would ever call a bow/bow stamsorc overpowered.

    Breaks my heart. Not a matter of 'adjusting'; rather, it is a matter of the game ruining a playstyle that I loved and, as a soloist, affected exactly zero other players. Murkmire was the continuation of the fact that every update makes my game less fun. I love ESO but at what point does 'less fun' equal time to move on?
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on November 4, 2018 12:52AM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Appo
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    jabrone77 wrote: »
    Zedrian wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    In four man staff, outside of bugs, you only need 17-18k health to survive those things that will lower your health. Stay out of red. Watch the boss. Dodge roll when you need to. Most fight will give you enough time to regen your Stam, even on a mag too with the default amount. I habe never ran a ward on any of my DPS toons, though I do run heals/healing damage skills. Like power surge or burning embers or sap essence

    In 12 men content, how does one survive with a tiny shield when fighting Rakkhat HM and its meteors, or the Warrior HM Shehai storm? Is the shield smaller but absorbs more damage? I don't understand this change.

    Easy. It is healers job. And if the 2 healers you brought aren't up to the task, maybe drop a dps and bring another healer. But really. Those 2 examples are literally like .2% of the game. The rest of the time, the stuff I play, you don't need them.

    Even healers need to block on the warrior storm phase. Can't just heal through that...I'm assuming you've never done it, so might not know? So, not "easy, it's the healers job..." What's easy is writing off things as unimportant because you personally don't do them. Doesn't change the fact it's going to be an issue.

    Heealers can block cast too....
  • deLioncourt
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    Lord_Wrath wrote: »
    Vahrokh wrote: »
    I play exactly like before: I don't go in red cicles so I don't need shields or resistance gear.

    Besides the red circles there are plenty scripted things which will instantly one-shot your dps if it is not blocking, have enough health and some damage mitigation all together.

    This is what ive been hearing, even one saying you dont even need a shield for pve, and exactly my concern are those specific mechanics where you just are going to take a lot of damage. Though I think health/resistance factors will be more important in pvp?

    I havent had time for serious play and testing. Ive upped my health and resistances and killed some overland bosses and soloed some normal dungeons. Its a dps loss but the survivability is really nice. So again, when you get to serious content what are people doing for those oh **** moments?

    dying
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