rich getting richer, poor getting poorer (thanks a lot ZOS) how about everyone gets richer?

JinMori · October 2018

And anyway, there are ways of making loads of money without even stepping into a vet trial or dungeon.

myskyrim26 · October 2018

People who can run hard content deserve to have something unique. They deserve the opportunity to be dressed in a non-casual way and to make money using their gaming skills.

I'm a devoted motif collector. I tried to farm Minotaur (before drop was reduced) and Ancient Orc myself. A very long and boring experience. So I bought them just as all other motifs. People who spent their time doing boring activities, deserve to be paid for it.

HalloweenWeed · October 2018

Cosmetics. Meh.

albesca · October 2018

SantieClaws wrote: »

Different pathways to the same end.

That's a really valid general principle.
The current event is clearly PVE group oriented, it would be nice if it had longer routes to the same rewards (the dremora motif) with PVP and solo activities.

Perhaps after a year the motif pages, skins etc that are presently gated behind the hardest content could be available from the crafting vouchers man or be a possible reward in the anniversary festival boxes?

This is also an interesting idea, though I think that something should remain exclusive, like skins and busts

LadyNalcarya · October 2018

ESO caters to hardcore playerbase? I mean, really? This game is one of the more casual mmos and it's pretty easy to afford pretty much everything. Yes, there are a few skins locked behind hardmodes... The last 3 skins are ugly as sin, though. vCR+3 rewards you with a skin that makes your char look like purple Freddy Krueger, ww skin looks like it's made of rotted wood and the newest one seems to be a tribute to greyscale disease from Game of Thrones. Much rewarding, such wow.
I agree that they are intentionally making the game more grindy, but it has nothing to do with "hardcore" audience. There's nothing hardcore about grinding, some games even allow you to grind when you're afk. Developers just add more grinding so you will spend more time in the game (which means more chances that you will suscribe or buy something from crown store). Welkynar motif is another example of a marketing ploy: sure, you can obtain it in game. It is very tedious, though, so you might as well skip it for 6000 crowns.

These kinds of things are actually common in supposedly casual mobile games: your progress is intentionally hindered just to offer you an "easy way" if you're willing to pay real money.
Seriously, I'm sick and tired of this "blah blah blah those hardcore elitists are ruining the game!" bs. There's not many "hardcore" players left in this game to begin with: there's no competition for world's first anymore, for example. Pvp is also more about cheesy gimmicks than true competition.

Mihael · October 2018

You do realize you are trying to remove some of the core mechanics of mmorpgs, players who progress and are able to do these trials and dungeons should be rewarded. There are tons of other ways that casual players can make gold if they don’t want to do end game content but you should not take away from the players that dedicate a lot of time to doing this.

Also I can’t speak for trials, but 4 man dungeons only get easier every patch because of cp

Donny_Vito · October 2018

It's like people at their real jobs/careers who don't want to put in the extra hours or challenge themselves with new roles, but they believe they should still reap the rewards and get paid more. If you want to receive the highest-level of motifs/skins in this game, then you need to work for them. If you don't want to work for them, then the best thing you can do is to focus your time/energy into other aspects of the game that can generate you enough money to buy them. Making these motifs/skins available to your average player is not a good idea, as it diminishes the purpose of 12 people (or 4 for Vet dungeon skins) working together to defeat challenging content. It gives those people a visual cue for the other players in the community to recognize -- that the player put in hard work and completed the most challenging content ESO had to deliver.

Edit: This comment was directed more at the idea skins should be available to all players.

VaranisArano · October 2018

I don't really have an opinion on the motif suggestion, but when it comes to the OP's suggestion about making money...

Adding more perfect roe isnt going to help. That just raises the supply which drops the price. We've already seen that happen with nirncrux and kuta. Before One Tamriel when the supply was doubled, I used to sell Potent Nirncrux for 19k ea, now its more like 9k.

Making money in ESO takes time. Shocking, I know, you have to grind for it (like everything else in this game). Whether that's farming mats, farming desirable gear, farming motifs, running around looking for deals in guild stores...you have to put in the time.

If you are so casual that you don't have the time to grind for items to sell, then yes, you probably aren't going to easily drop 20-30k on a motif page. Heck, Ive got 7 million (because I've got the time to farm mats) and I don't like spending 20-30k on a motif page.

But the suggestion in the OP isn't going to help your money woes. If ZOS makes it easier for you acquire something good to sell, the price will drop and you'll still be competing with everyone else with more time to play the game than you.

Thats something the Witches Festival did right, by the way. The people who play the game more are on the same 20 hour timer as everyone else. The only real difference in the big rewards is whether or not you can do arenas and trials.

The best way you can address your money woes is to find a way you like to grind the game to make money and put the time in. I find farming mats relaxing - which is why I have 7 million, and Ive probably made and spend twice that much in the time Ive been playing. But if you dont want to spend the time to grind for gold, you will continue to be "poor" in this game, and asking ZOS to increase the supply of desirable items isn't going to fundamentally change that.

SpacemanSpiff1 · October 2018

ZOS isn't giving anything to top-end players. Those players work for it.

As for motifs: just wait until the anniversary event. Pages dropped like hotcakes. It is the great style equalizer.

Haenk · October 2018

After 6(?) months of being away, it took me 4 months to catch up with the motifs.
This just isn't anything that could be done within a week.
And I didn't farm those, just purchased them.
Farm stuff, sell stuff - that's easy money (you'll need a couple of "good" trading guilds and surely some dedication).

Please remember - there is always someone better or richer than you and no, you can't have everything - live with it, I do.

LadyNalcarya · October 2018

Also, it's kinda impossible to make everyone rich. Because "being rich" is relative, and boosting everyone's gold would just cause inflation. People would always ask more for new and rare items, that's how things work.

VaranisArano · October 2018

myskyrim26 wrote: »

People who can run hard content deserve to have something unique. They deserve the opportunity to be dressed in a non-casual way and to make money using their gaming skills.

I'm a devoted motif collector. I tried to farm Minotaur (before drop was reduced) and Ancient Orc myself. A very long and boring experience. So I bought them just as all other motifs. People who spent their time doing boring activities, deserve to be paid for it.

I definitely agree with that last part. I know I'm going to buy that Swamp Jelly Pet when the price drops.

150 dailies, asking me to run to 3 places on the map and do stupid competitive things, then run back to the NPC and do another silly thing?

Boring! I will happily play people for the fruits of their labor with the gold I earn from doing what I enjoy: listening to music as I run large circles in Craglorn destroying the ecosystem. I'm sure some people find farming mats to be as boring as I find running dailies - but to each their own and in this case, we'll both get paid.

DaveMoeDee · October 2018

Anyone can get a lot of money in this game if they are willing to sacrifice enjoyment to grind. I am not endorsing this approach, but the idea that you have to do hard content to make money is just pain false.

I had 6m in the bank before I bought 1m worth of hakeijo last week. I only did my first trials (nHRC) as well as first nDSA during this event. I made a large portion of my wealth through grinding motifs during jubilees and selling them.

I did make a million+ in profit flipping rings the first week of Summerset, and I consider that a case of the rich getting richer since I used the millions I already had to buy up rings from Alik'r and Auridon farmers to sell in guild stores. But I already had millions from selling motifs. I have made money in the past by stealing stuff and fencing it, by buying mats and bulk crafting food/drink to sell to fenders at margins around 50%-100%. I will often sell new motifs and then wait until Jubilee to complete the motif for myself. Recently I've also been doing a lot of writs with my 15 characters. I don't know if the lower level characters are actually profitable, but the max level ones are. Currently I am farming tiers 3 and 4 recipes through writs because I noticed there is a shortage of those recipes and I could easily eventually make a few grand a day just selling recipes from mid-tier writ rewards (the lowest and highest level recipes are too common and pretty worthless). I also have 3-5 hirelings on 15 characters, depending upon what they have unlocked. Just by selling hiring mats (which I hoard instead) I can probably easily make 10k per day.

I also sold a ton of furniture recipes early on when prices were way higher than they are now. Around the time we all got our free Villas, I decided to sell blue recipes I had been holding on to for much higher that recent market value and they all sold quite quick.

Yes, the rich get richer in ESO and in real life, but it is easy to get rich in the game if you are willing to suffer through less fun activities (like doing 6 writs on 15 character per day doing jubilee plus a lot of Cyrodiil town dailies or stealing a lot daily). Many of us with money decided to solve a problem instead of complaining about it.

max_only · October 2018

Just get rid of motif fragments for a start. I don’t know who benefits from that. Not even people who like raiding like motif fragments.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · October 2018

JinMori wrote: »

And anyway, there are ways of making loads of money without even stepping into a vet trial or dungeon.

I try to steal daily from Summerset and make roughly 2-4K a day bc I cant upgrade the fence yet. Plus I’m starting to take more green + blue items to sell and so far I’m at 200k+ gold, and it’s definitely going to be a while before I finally get 900k to buy a skin.

Edit: honestly I’m just hoping that soon there’s more gold for the daily rewards.

zaria · October 2018

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

The gold I use to gold up my gear, to buy potions, to repairs gear, the time I spend to wipe over and over in those trials and harder dungeons instead of farming hundred thousands gold worth of materials. Those motifs barely cover those cost I can tell you that.

Yes then I do lots of dungeons I tend to get poorer

Get far more income exploring, stealing and questing. its easy to see on my sale statistic in guild store.

Eweroun · October 2018

buy cheap, sell high...no?
I remember the plant buyers a good year ago that skyrocketed the prices by buying everything and selling it with a higher price...

there are one-hundred ways to make money in the game.
I'm not the big salesman myself, but just by watching prices a bit you can easily make a good deal of money..
(sold all my dro-m'athra motifs last week for around 30K each... (some months ago you could have them for 3-5k each)

don't get stressed too much about what all those few end-game players can have .
In the beginning end-game trialists could make money..
but now...

- zos made trial gear not sellable
- zos nerfed the amount of heavy sacks in trials (oh, how nice was the AA HS-search)
- zos introduced motifs in crown store
- ...

and about the skins ...
well... you don't get payed if you don't work...

angelncelestine · October 2018

I completely agree with the grind being ridiculous when it comes to the CR motif. IMO they didnt do that to make end gamers richer, but to get more people to head to the crown store. I really hope they don't make a trial grind like that again.
As far as dungeon motifs go most of them are dirt cheap now. If you were around for the anniversary event most of them became available for everyone to get, and depreciated the value. The two new dungeons drop rare housing plans. I am pretty sure these drop on normal also.
As far as gear goes you can pretty much get everything now from normal versions. I can only think of two places that you cant. MA and DSA. Maybe someday they will make it possible to get imperfect versions of those weapons also. I personally don't see a problem with certain skins being locked behind harder achievements. It gives people that enjoy a challenge something to work for. Just in case some of you don't know there is a skin coming out for the new life festival. Everyone will be able to work for that one :-)

Anotherone773 · October 2018

Overall i would like to see better access to endgame content for average players. The motifs and gear and "special" drops are just not enough to entice most of the player base to deal with the toxic elitism environment these items are found in. Most people dont want that amount of negativity in their game play to suck the joy out of it.

I think what we need to do is address the toxic environment problem and address the constant DPS bar being raised for these instances as well as the " max DPS best option" trap that has been created to blitz these. It says a lot about the poor design of a game when the average well geared hardcore player can solo normal dungeons and when some players can solo normal trial bosses.

The entire instance mechanics are broken and the entire system needs reworked in my opinion.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · October 2018

One of the many folleys of horizontal progression is that content never becomes "easy." Sure, you could argue that vet HM vanilla trials are relatively easy now, but I'd say the majority of groups still cannot complete them.

This is even worse for current trials, because we've pretty much stopped getting stronger. In fact, some of us are actively being made weaker *cough*sorcs*cough*. Content that is too difficult for groups will remain too difficult, presumably forever unless they "git gud" which is not a realistic answer when you're looking at the macro level and not an individual basis.

With other MMOs, eventually the level cap raises so you can go back and do these "old school raids" with relative ease and get all of the skins / cosmetic rewards / etc. Back in Rift and WoW, many guilds would have nights devoted to running old raids just for cosmetics, and it was usually a pretty good time because you could bring along players who weren't necessarily good enough for current content. This can't happen in games with horizontal progression, which is a shame.

Sure, there are ways to make money and buy most of the motifs anyway, but some of them, like the welkynar, are quite expensive and will most likely not drop in value for years. And skins will remain out of reach for most of the playerbase forever, due to the horizontal structure of the game.

What_In_Tarnation · October 2018

FYI, the current making gold trend actually don't required any skill at all. Like really don't need any skill at all.

Spell of strategist set is now on a honeymoon trip, every mag player wants it cause it's toooo gooooooooood. So it sells really well. All you need to do is find a group hop on your mount, sap dat ap by tapping every enemies you see.

And another way is just stealing furnishing recipes in murkmire or alinor. Well, train your stealth, use good steath sets and steal everything. Well, yea it's pure rng and it's really low rng, that's why they're so expensive.

Like for real, this thread sounds like another "I can't complete vMA and obtain muh vMA bow, pls nerf vMA bow." thread like yesterday I saw here.

Edit: if we're talking about welknar motif, then yea it's a lot of grind no matter you're elite or casual. Let's say the average motif price is 100k (some motif will be much expensive than 100k like chest, staves..e.t.c), so it will cost you like 1.4 million at least. Now crown store sells the whole welknar motif for 6k crowns.

At this point, I would rather buy it from crown store. "bu-but-but I don't wanna spend crown on motif". Welp, you can use gift feature and find a trust-able dude or dudetess to gift you welknar motif and you give him/her gold. 200 gold : 1 crown, so it will be 1.2 million gold for the whole motif.

And this is exact point why zos make the motif farming so grindy than usually. But you just pay gold for crown motif like you buy motif from guild traders. "bu-bu-but I don't have enough gold." This is why you steal/farm new furnishing recipes without any skill involved.

AlnilamE · October 2018

I agree that the whole Welkynar motif just dropping in vet and in fragments on top of that is stupid. I've run nCR a couple of times this week for the plunder skulls and I got the bindings, which I'm happily selling.

I'm also not going to buy it from the Crown Store, because I refuse to buy motifs. So either I'll save money and buy them for gold, or I'll wait for the Jubilee event. Unless I end up getting a few pages from free crates we get as login rewards.

That said, I don't see a problem making gold. Just by trying to get the dremora skulls this week I have amassed so much loot, both of the vendoring kind and of the selling kind. Not to mention gear to decon for my alts.

And I've had reasonable luck getting motif pages to drop from normal dungeons. It just takes more time than running vet.

Loralai_907 · October 2018

It's super easy to get gold in this game and buy anything you'd rather not do the content for. I personally even miss being able to buy gear from dungeons.

Do your writs. Sell everything. Go PvP. Sell everything. Go farming. Sell everything.

Royaji · October 2018

Even though I'm not a big fan of the whole Welkynar motif thing I have to admit that it has some reasoning. You can kind treat it like a token system people ask for sometimes. They could've done it by pure RNG:

nCR+3 - 10% chance to get a motif
vCR+0 - 20%
vCR+1 - 40%
vCR+2 - 60%
vCR+3 - 100%

And it would be technically the same. Is the token way better? Not sure. But this way you can farm nCR+3 and stil get your page after a certain amount of runs. Considering how much some players complain about RNG they should be happy with that system, no?

mocap · October 2018

what will you do if you have 1000k gold? Outside of motifs, you probably just store it. Nothing else.

Wildberryjack · October 2018

I have to disagree. Coming from a game where there was literally nothing good for you if you did not do the highest end raiding, this game is leaps and bounds above in what is available to the "casual" player. Those things you are speaking about that sell for so much fetch those prices because most don't want to bother to do the content that rewards them therefore they are more rare to find on traders. Supply and demand.

If the hardest content didn't have the best rewards then why would anyone put in the effort required to clear it? Higher difficulty should always have better rewards. There is no worse feeling than putting in a lot of time and effort only to get nothing that was worth that effort. It is the reason I walked away from that other game.

In this game I could learn to play better, get the best sets, and get my butt in that vet content but I simply don't want to. That isn't the type of activity in games that I enjoy. I don't have a problem with the rewards from that content, that I choose not to do, only being available to me if I buy it from someone. Perhaps one day I'll change my mind, and if I do I'm in some awesome guilds who would be happy to teach me to play better and take me in to learn the vet trials.

ATomiX96 · October 2018

mommadani907 wrote: »

It's super easy to get gold in this game and buy anything you'd rather not do the content for. I personally even miss being able to buy gear from dungeons.

Do your writs. Sell everything. Go PvP. Sell everything. Go farming. Sell everything.

totally agree you can make easily 200k a day from just doing writs on 15 characters which takes like 50 minutes.
And right now you can just run zerg in pvp get rewards of the worthy and if you happen to get a spell strategist inferno, enjoy your 2 mil. gold right there. (EDIT: they "only" go for 1 mil right now on PC-EU)

Armatesz · October 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I'm on a fence about this one.

I think there should be things locked behind the hardest content to reward those who complete it and reach that level. However I also feel right now the requirements to meet that are too high for normal players, especially with how the meta of PvE builds has shifted the last year.

On the last note, Plunder Skulls drop the same in normal and veteran, hard mode makes no difference. This event was very accessible to anyone who can get a group and understand the very basic requirements of group PvE content.
PC EU the most expensive item from the trials/arena plunder skulls is 30-50k which is not a great deal of money to anyone playing the game on a regular basis.

The average player doesn't have 100k in the bank, so I have have to disagree. The normal trials or arena (dsa) aren't harder then some dungeons but some people don't know how to access it as in getting a group for it.

Still I think OP has overlooked a lot of things if we excluded cloudrest issue that they are hinting at in the post then there is a lot of different options for people. Let's not forget most housing recipes are in overland activities.

Then maybe it's an issue of quest rewards. Hmm many things to talk about.

I'm never certain if people do or do not have over a certain amount of gold, I know my funds can flux if I am after something and pursuing it. But I know at times I can spend as much as almost 3 million in gold looking for certain blueprints for furniture on xbox na and I don't make money from guild traders with myself being guildless. There are things I agree and don't agree with op, I do think some things are far too grindy than they should be... I'm somehow reminded of the worm cult motif fiasco... yeah I completed the worm cult motif but majority of players did not. I literally had to trade so many motifs just for one page because of how hard it was to get the thing, I did so many dailies that day into triple digits that at the end of it all my mind snapped and I haven't mentally recovered fully because of that. I think they need to reconsider some things with how hard they are to get. With how some of the farming imo eso can be the most toxic and grindy on a particular thing but a lot of it is pretty spot on. I hope we never get another thing like how worm cult event was for how hard a grind was to get a particular thing.

AuraNebula · October 2018

I completely disagree with this. When I was a new player I did not expect to have skins, hard to get motifs, etc just handed to me. I put in time and effort to be able to complete harder content. I'm still working on getting trial skins. I'm in a vAS progression and we run 3 times a week and have completed +1 on each of the bosses. We are going to start on +2 soon. A lot of time and effort goes into obtaining these things. I didn't do HM on cradle of shadows just to give away Silken Ring motifs. I worked my way up to go completion of these dungeons. So should you.

RusevCrush · October 2018

You need to work for that stuff if you want it.