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torug's pact set in pvp... did we just kill pvp?
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
I'm not disputing that something is broken, I'm simply arguing that the best fix isn't what you think it is. There was never any LOGICAL reason for some weapon skills to proc enchants but not others. They need to fix the new problem without bringing old problems back.
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 26, 2018 10:15AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
bpmachete✭✭✭The problem is not infused or torugs, or the enchant power on one weapon or dual weild. It's bleeds and bleeds from abilities procing the enchants, and damage overtimes, AOE's procing the enchants in PvP. In PVE WHATEVER, but not in PvP, it makes people run dual weild rending slashes and spin to win blade cloak just to cheese people to death.
If the bleeds and those AOEs dont proc the enchants only one enchant per first hit of rending, and none from bleeds and AOE where you are not hitting the enemy with the weapon it should not proc. It's simple fix.4 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
Dual wield enchants should have double cooldown time. Why is dual wield the only weapon line that is allowed to double dip in enchants for full strength?
Also, enchants procing from skills is just daft, especially procing from skills cast on your backbar while on your front bar. Who asked for this power creep? Make all enchants proc only from weapon attacks - heavy and light.
While I get where you're coming from, my first thought is "what about Crusher/Weakening uptimes for tanks?"
If we went your way, and only had them proc from light & heavy attacks (which I'm not hugely opposed to, fwiw), would you think it a problem to double (or so) the duration of Crusher & Weakening enchantments? Because otherwise your proposal would be a significant blow to tanks, in this area.
Who says that you -have- to have 100 % uptime on crusher and weakening? I mean, I enjoy my WoE procing +spell damage infinitely even when on my front bar, but it's not something I -have- to have. And it's power creep.
I'm not necessarily against increasing the duration of these enchants, if that means they only will proc off of light/heavy attacks then I think that's a nice compromise, but I don't see why groups -must- have 100 % uptime on either enchant.
In fact, weakening and crusher especially being so powerful as they are, means less build diversity. I play a tank myself, and I don't particularly enjoy being pigeonholed into the role as a buff/debuff guy for the rest of the group. If something like Defending trait or Shielding glyph was more powerful in comparison to weakening and crusher with infused, then perhaps we would have a bit more build diversity instead of one spec that is vastly superior to all others.
Fair points, @Carbonised, I tend to agree. I'm not concerned that ~100% uptime will be made impossible, per se, though. I'm more concerned that making it harder or less effective for tanks to provide buffs & debuffs like they could before Murkmire dropped will only push more of them away from the already under-filled role. I was thinking perhaps some sort of compromise for them would be in order, if your suggestion moved forward, since discouraging yet more people from tanking is one of the last things this game needs.
And I get what you're saying about being pigeonholed and lack of build diversity for tanks, too. Definitely felt the pressure to be a buff/debuff dispenser or "GTFO". But, I think it's worth noting that that's a player-created issue more than a ZOS dropping the ball one. Infused Crusher is only BiS/"mandatory" for tank builds & playstyles that focus on boosting the whole group's dps above all else; if you're going for the tankiest tank the world has ever seen (necessary or not), then Infused Crusher is no longer the best option. The lack of build diversity is more a community-driven issue, than lack of viable options for tanks, I think. Though, more decent options for tanks would be welcome!0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea I do. Although I would say DW is just that much more broken tho and is the main culprit. I will agree with you guys on that. But in its entirety I don't agree with these changes.
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?
Enchants were fine as they were and no one complained about them as far as I can see. With this change, yet another skill layer has been removed from pvp, because you don't even need to weave light/heavy attacks anymore to keep high uptime on your enchants. The amount of pressure you can put on people with constant infused enchant procs, with MINIMAL effort, is too strong if you ask me. Especially when combined with the usual cancer aka sloads, viper, etc.
I just find it funny that it is always the same people who are scares to death that their crutches are taken away. I can understand why @Emma_Overload doesn't want it removed. Its simply free damage with minimal effort. Doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. This game already has more than enough damage as it is. We don't need more easy mode cheese.
Thanks for clarifying your standpoint here, @Koensol. I can definitely see how these enchant proc updates contribute to power creep. Or in this case, more of a power LEAP. I'm of the same mind that enchants were fine as they were before Murkire. The extra power we got from these changes is obviously nice in PvE, but when it's wrecking PvP this badly obviously something needs to be done (or undone).
2 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭HackTheMinotaur wrote: »The sad part is that this was brought up in the PTS forums. Alcast also created a video on this. Why does PTS cycle exist anymore if feedback is not addressed?
This is a gross PVP imbalance. Maybe it’s time to consider that PVP and PVE need separate balancing? Maybe even separate balance teams? I don’t understand how any dev with even a basic knowledge of PVP would let this change through.
Rending slashes cast every 10 seconds does 16k dps with the right build, so I wouldnt exactly call it balanced for pve either.1 -
Olquorron✭✭✭This is disgustingly overpowered in PvP and it's making Cyrodiil virtually unplayable for those who choose to run solo or in smaller groups, unless they want to reroll as a NB or templar.
I thought people were just making a big deal out of a real but not-gamebreaking problem until I played in Cyrodiil yesterday and saw people getting kills against very good players who simply could not outheal the enchant procs from dual wield bleeds. Getting hit with rending slashes is now a death sentence for players without access to purge.
I think it needs to be addressed urgently, in a hotfix, or people are going to move to other games.
Weapon DoTs should not proc enchants, period. It makes no sense for them to proc on anything other than the activation of a weapon skill, a light attack, or a heavy attack.
Easy bloody fix that doesn't require nerfs to Infused or Torug's and actually makes intuitive sense.7 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea I do. Although I would say DW is just that much more broken tho and is the main culprit. I will agree with you guys on that. But in its entirety I don't agree with these changes.
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?
Enchants were fine as they were and no one complained about them as far as I can see. With this change, yet another skill layer has been removed from pvp, because you don't even need to weave light/heavy attacks anymore to keep high uptime on your enchants. The amount of pressure you can put on people with constant infused enchant procs, with MINIMAL effort, is too strong if you ask me. Especially when combined with the usual cancer aka sloads, viper, etc.
I just find it funny that it is always the same people who are scares to death that their crutches are taken away. I can understand why @Emma_Overload doesn't want it removed. Its simply free damage with minimal effort. Doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. This game already has more than enough damage as it is. We don't need more easy mode cheese.
Thanks for clarifying your standpoint here, @Koensol. I can definitely see how these enchant proc updates contribute to power creep. Or in this case, more of a power LEAP. I'm of the same mind that enchants were fine as they were before Murkire. The extra power we got from these changes is obviously nice in PvE, but when it's wrecking PvP this badly obviously something needs to be done (or undone).
This is incorrect. Nobody actually got any extra "power". Enchants are the same strength they've been for years. The cooldowns are also the same as usual. All that changed was that the conditions that allowed the enchants to proc were FIXED so that they are now applied consistently across skills.
The fact is that certain Dual Wield builds are now overpowered because of the ease with which they can apply FOUR enchant procs with reliability over time. THIS is what needs to be adjusted!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE4 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
Yea I do. Although I would say DW is just that much more broken tho and is the main culprit. I will agree with you guys on that. But in its entirety I don't agree with these changes.
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?
Enchants were fine as they were and no one complained about them as far as I can see. With this change, yet another skill layer has been removed from pvp, because you don't even need to weave light/heavy attacks anymore to keep high uptime on your enchants. The amount of pressure you can put on people with constant infused enchant procs, with MINIMAL effort, is too strong if you ask me. Especially when combined with the usual cancer aka sloads, viper, etc.
I just find it funny that it is always the same people who are scares to death that their crutches are taken away. I can understand why @Emma_Overload doesn't want it removed. Its simply free damage with minimal effort. Doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. This game already has more than enough damage as it is. We don't need more easy mode cheese.
Thanks for clarifying your standpoint here, @Koensol. I can definitely see how these enchant proc updates contribute to power creep. Or in this case, more of a power LEAP. I'm of the same mind that enchants were fine as they were before Murkire. The extra power we got from these changes is obviously nice in PvE, but when it's wrecking PvP this badly obviously something needs to be done (or undone).
This is incorrect. Nobody actually got any extra "power". Enchants are the same strength they've been for years. The cooldowns are also the same as usual. All that changed was that the conditions that allowed the enchants to proc were FIXED so that they are now applied consistently across skills.
The fact is that certain Dual Wield builds are now overpowered because of the ease with which they can apply FOUR enchant procs with reliability over time. THIS is what needs to be adjusted!
Flame Clench from an Infused inferno staff can now proc a flame damage glyph FIVE times. From one cast. While you're on a different bar. And can't even see your target.
You wouldn't call that extra power? I would.
Sure, your glyph is doing the same damage it's always done on a single proc, but WAY more often, and for less overall effort. Sort of the definition of extra power, no?
I like it for PvE (duh, who wouldn't?), but it's seriously upsetting what balance there was in PvP; which is really saying something, imo. The changes to enchant proc conditions are objectively a significant gain in power for anyone who uses a single target DoT weapon line skill (so, almost everyone). I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
Yea I do. Although I would say DW is just that much more broken tho and is the main culprit. I will agree with you guys on that. But in its entirety I don't agree with these changes.
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?
Enchants were fine as they were and no one complained about them as far as I can see. With this change, yet another skill layer has been removed from pvp, because you don't even need to weave light/heavy attacks anymore to keep high uptime on your enchants. The amount of pressure you can put on people with constant infused enchant procs, with MINIMAL effort, is too strong if you ask me. Especially when combined with the usual cancer aka sloads, viper, etc.
I just find it funny that it is always the same people who are scares to death that their crutches are taken away. I can understand why @Emma_Overload doesn't want it removed. Its simply free damage with minimal effort. Doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. This game already has more than enough damage as it is. We don't need more easy mode cheese.
Thanks for clarifying your standpoint here, @Koensol. I can definitely see how these enchant proc updates contribute to power creep. Or in this case, more of a power LEAP. I'm of the same mind that enchants were fine as they were before Murkire. The extra power we got from these changes is obviously nice in PvE, but when it's wrecking PvP this badly obviously something needs to be done (or undone).
This is incorrect. Nobody actually got any extra "power". Enchants are the same strength they've been for years. The cooldowns are also the same as usual. All that changed was that the conditions that allowed the enchants to proc were FIXED so that they are now applied consistently across skills.
The fact is that certain Dual Wield builds are now overpowered because of the ease with which they can apply FOUR enchant procs with reliability over time. THIS is what needs to be adjusted!
Flame Clench from an Infused inferno staff can now proc a flame damage glyph FIVE times. From one cast. While you're on a different bar. And can't even see your target.
You wouldn't call that extra power? I would.
Sure, your glyph is doing the same damage it's always done on a single proc, but WAY more often, and for less overall effort. Sort of the definition of extra power, no?
I like it for PvE (duh, who wouldn't?), but it's seriously upsetting what balance there was in PvP; which is really saying something, imo. The changes to enchant proc conditions are objectively a significant gain in power for anyone who uses a single target DoT weapon line skill (so, almost everyone). I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.
The only "imbalance" is the fact that Dual Wielders can proc twice as many enchants over the same period of time. That's what needs to be fixed to restore balance. As you say "almost everyone" has a single target DoT weapon skill, so there shouldn't be any imbalance, as long as every skill line procs enchants at the same rate.
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 26, 2018 11:18PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS was a responsible PVP dev, this would have been hotpatched tonight days ago.Edited by zyk on October 26, 2018 11:21PM7 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If ZOS was a responsible PVP dev, this would have been hotpatched tonight days ago.
Or tested a little more thoroughly on some kind of server that people could preview future changes and things on. Maybe one that was open to the public. Like some kind of crazy Public Test Server or something. Then experienced players who could offer valuable insight ahead of time could help inform these sort of decisions before they made it to the live serv...
Wait...
:P
Seems like the bigger problem is that community input goes largely ignored, and stuff like this makes it to live in the first place.5 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I can't imagine the plan was for everyone to hit rending on npcs and walk away knowing it will die and restore resources while you go do something else. I'm probably gong to self regulate and change my gear to make the game interesting again.
PVE DW/Bow is actually fine without Torugs. Everyone says torugs isn't the problem, but it's an essiential component to the cheese. If they nerf torugs or made it only work with sword and shield equipped, pve would be all set with regard to enchantments Keep in mind that everyone was nerfed. We need something to change for the better. Torugs is the key to making the positive change OP.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »
I can't imagine the plan was for everyone to hit rending on npcs and walk away knowing it will die and restore resources while you go do something else. I'm probably gong to self regulate and change my gear to make the game interesting again.
PVE DW/Bow is actually fine without Torugs. Everyone says torugs isn't the problem, but it's an essiential component to the cheese. If they nerf torugs or made it only work with sword and shield equipped, pve would be all set with regard to enchantments Keep in mind that everyone was nerfed. We need something to change for the better. Torugs is the key to making the positive change OP.
Torugs is not even close to being the problem. Torugs reduces the cooldown to 1.4 seconds, down for 2 seconds with just Infused. If you hit someone with a DOT that tics every 1 second, you're not even going to get any benefit from Torugs. Torugs only really shines when you are weaving light attacks.
What needs to be nerfed is Dual Wield, so that enchants only proc off the main hand weapon!
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 27, 2018 12:31AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
I can't imagine the plan was for everyone to hit rending on npcs and walk away knowing it will die and restore resources while you go do something else. I'm probably gong to self regulate and change my gear to make the game interesting again.
PVE DW/Bow is actually fine without Torugs. Everyone says torugs isn't the problem, but it's an essiential component to the cheese. If they nerf torugs or made it only work with sword and shield equipped, pve would be all set with regard to enchantments Keep in mind that everyone was nerfed. We need something to change for the better. Torugs is the key to making the positive change OP.
Torugs is not even close to being the problem. Torugs reduces the cooldown to 1.4 seconds, down for 2 seconds with just Infused. If you hit someone with a DOT that tics every 1 second, you're not even going to get any benefit from Torugs. Torugs only really shines when you are weaving light attacks.
What needs to be nerfed is Dual Wield, so that enchants only proc off the main hand weapon!
I changed my gear and it was a different game. I'm dw/bow too, so it's just one extra, not two. If the tooltip explanation of torugs doesn't add up, then it's broken in a behind the scenes way. Keep in mind, for all the sloads qq, it turned out it was procing itself. Definitely not on the tooltip, nor working as intended.1 -
DirkRavenclaw✭✭✭✭Well, my Mag DK PVP runs 5 Heavy Shacklebreaker, 5 Torugs and 2 Valkyn Skoria with infused Firestaff and infused Shockstaff, its fun as hell and ZOS isnt responding to anything, not like with Sloads, so gives me Hope that this was actually intended, Thank you ZOS, please dont Nerf,Council Member of AtWritsEnd, Member of LoneWolfeHelp, Donor of GhostSeaTradingCO., Factor of EastEmpireTradingCO.,HonourGuard of ´DominionImperialGuard(DIG/PVP)
Master Crafter including Jewelry, i craft for Mats and Donation, always happy to help, if Im not in the Middle of PVP, i play since around 14 Months2 -
awafricanSoul ShrivenBrokenGameMechanics wrote: »People should slow down here for a bit. Consider the following points:
- Players generally believe there is only ONE TRUE META and then build for that META and then for defending that META.
- So for the standard current believed and beloved METAs everyone is used to them and getting upset with ANY call to nerf them.
- Anytime someone does show that "look here are diverse multiple game styles and approaches that are NOT the current META, but are EFFECTIVE". People go into hysterical mode with something new and UNEXPECTED that they are currently NOT prepared for. There are now 2 options.
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- Run around like chickens sprouting a bunch unsubstantiated nonsense without numbers and theory crafting and demand IMMEDIATE reactive NERFS that will probably end up doing far more damage then good with all the lurching back and forth.
- Sit back and look at what is happening and ADJUST to a new and relatively novel play style.
- IF and ONLY IF, after everyone adjusts buiids, CP allocations adjusted, learned and then learned to play what reasonable skill counters are out there WHEN the new META playstyle continues to OP ZOS always (or at least attempts) to address the problem.
- We really, really need to stop these major lurching adjustments with there constant overwhelming uniintended consequences and let ZOS dial things in over time.
I mean IF the current META was everyone running around layering tons of DOTS and ENCHANT ticing and everyone was both doing it and defending against it with all nich Sets and builds and suddenly someone posted. OMG, look , look a bunch of folks are NOW doing the BURST damage combos like with Shards and Wrath etc. We need to IMMEDIATELY get an EMERGENCY patch to NERF BURST damage skills NOW." Everything knows all of us are SUPPOSED be be doing nothing but layers of DOTS and Enchantment TICS in PVP this BURST approach is soooo OP. Emergency patch to disable demanded ... sigh.
Also, please take a deep breath, breath, now do another and consider. I and some others have at irregular intervals pointed out and complained the DW LINE is currently in a shambles with regards to Enchants and Procing etc. It was/is widely inconsistent in the behavior and counter-intuitive. e.g. The skill Flurry, where you attack the target with multiple hits over a small channel time from BOTH the LH and RH weapons NEVER proc'd the LF enchant. Never. Makes no sense. I could go ou and on but from Flurry to Daggers, to Rending to Cload, Enchant and Armor Procing is a complete MESS with both skill DESIGN issues (how the skill is supposed to proc enchants) and then with BUGS, what the skills are supposed to PROC and are currently is NOT.
What I'm assuming here is that ZOS MAY be cleaning up the current PROC DW BUGs. Good for them if that is the case. NOW players are seeing "oh look ZOS fixed the bugs in the DW line" and using DW skills for a change. Maybe, who knows, they're cleaning up some of the design issues with DW as well. IF fixing the current BUGS does reveal that the are clear, after adjustment, OP issues these things are addressed by ZOS.
Also, since players are building for and playing to defend against the current PVP is all about XYZ damage so put your CP points heavy into ABC tree etc. I'm going to assume, everyone is currently NOT focusing on DOT damage in general in PVP. They are NOT focusing on DISEASE, POISON, ... OR FROST, FLAME, ... Who is really loading CP points to defend against this stuff - DOTS and Enchants. Yea nobody. Why ... you don't see it in BG or PVP. Well now you are.
And finally... I'm NOT saying that there is NOT some overly OP issue here with Turogs+Infused+double DW+enchanting. However, since basically it is a NEW META approach that no one has seen before OF COURSE the majority of builds out there are HIGHLY SUSCEPTIBLE (otherwise it wouldn't be new meta) precisely because they have NOT seen it before and for example have NADA in the necessary CP trees ect.
So how about we let the player base adjust first and THEN let ZOS fine tune adjustments. Knee jerk reactive stuff like "ZOS needs to do an emergency patch tonight that disable ALL ENCHANTS in BG and PVP NOW, right NOW" is just continuing the lurching back and forth.
I think you're bang on, unfortunately whatever they do to "fix" this will also mess with PVE even more. I like the fact that perhaps they finally fixed DW procs...0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The fix is in (heh)
Fixed an issue where both of your Dual Wield weapon enchantments were proccing from a single damage from Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or Weapon Ability.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Abilities that deal damage multiple times with a single cast, such as Flurry which has 5 hits or Twin Slashes which has 2 direct damage hits and several damage over time ticks, can proc both of your weapon enchantments over those hits. But each isolated instance of damage should only be able to proc one weapon enchantment at a time.
1 tick 1 glyph, which makes me think it does tone it down but not by a lot.0 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭Yes, it needs more toning down - the minimal amount of effort for great damage is beyond stupid.1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They fixed this right, with the last incremental patch? Asking for a friend.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
EPelite✭✭✭Yes it is fixed now, thank you all for posting your experience, I’d like to think that the extra focus from us players got this fixed faster then ZOS normally would do.
Kind regards Malleus0