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torug's pact set in pvp... did we just kill pvp?
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭i thought pvp died a long time ago and people only suffer it out for transmute crystals.Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard7 -
Delta_IVSoul ShrivenThe funniest things I see in this case is:
1. When mag PVP chars abused backbar enchant procking from wall of elements in bg for a long, long time (3 patches or more) - nobody was complaining. Now, when stam people can use enchant from backbar poison injection - here we go, shout outs.
2. A lot of popular streamers, f.e. Alcast, made PTS videos BEFORE the patch arrived - that torugs dual wielded looks incredibely OP. Why wasn't it taken into considetation by ZOS - we can only take guesses)
3. Nerf sorcs!))))2 -
bpmachete✭✭✭
Yep, the problem is what procs the enchants, not the fact that the enchants can be more powerful and lower cool down. The problem is they do a couple of abilites and the enchants proc over and over without actually being hit by the weapons or weapon abilities. That's why Bleeds should not proc enchants or AOE and Damage overtime ticking should not proc it, it should be proactive abilities. They can make this change for Pvp if they don't want to for Pve..0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The funniest things I see in this case is:
1. When mag PVP chars abused backbar enchant procking from wall of elements in bg for a long, long time (3 patches or more) - nobody was complaining. Now, when stam people can use enchant from backbar poison injection - here we go, shout outs.
2. A lot of popular streamers, f.e. Alcast, made PTS videos BEFORE the patch arrived - that torugs dual wielded looks incredibely OP. Why wasn't it taken into considetation by ZOS - we can only take guesses)
3. Nerf sorcs!))))
The difference is that WoE has a small radius and you can avoid it. Now? There is no counterplay against this other than having a purge bot or not getting hit at all.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.6 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭The funniest things I see in this case is:
1. When mag PVP chars abused backbar enchant procking from wall of elements in bg for a long, long time (3 patches or more) - nobody was complaining. Now, when stam people can use enchant from backbar poison injection - here we go, shout outs.
2. A lot of popular streamers, f.e. Alcast, made PTS videos BEFORE the patch arrived - that torugs dual wielded looks incredibely OP. Why wasn't it taken into considetation by ZOS - we can only take guesses)
3. Nerf sorcs!))))
The difference is that WoE has a small radius and you can avoid it. Now? There is no counterplay against this other than having a purge bot or not getting hit at all.
The difference is huge:
1) Pure DPS output: Back then you were only proccing your active bar wpn enchant independent from which bar woe was sitting on - means we are looking at 1-2k pvp dps on the target max with frequent wpn swaps vs up to 8k pvp dps now with bleeds proccing up to 4 enchantments
2) Avoidability: as you said, any class & setup could just move/roll-dodge out of the aoe to avoid constant procs compared to sticking dots that would require (very) frequent purging
But Delta should know that, guess hes just frustrated his new Stamsorc is stuck in a dilemma (frowned upon if he does play enchantments or comparably weak if he tries not to).Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy3 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭I think you will find they are on target apparently healers had it too easy (hence the ward nerf) many felt redundant and the fear was when they all lost their jobs they would end up on the streets chasing the skooma dragon.
Now every player in Cyrodiil needs a pocket healer to survive (sorcs need two as they have no heals) = job creation.
I think you will find Devs are saving healers lives
Healers will always be needed when there is blame to assign. It's an MMO fact. My job is safe.2 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You know there was nothing to stop you from doing the same thing with Endless Hail, right? If someone is dumb enough to stand in WoE then they are probably also dumb enough to take full dmg from Hail.The funniest things I see in this case is:
1. When mag PVP chars abused backbar enchant procking from wall of elements in bg for a long, long time (3 patches or more) - nobody was complaining. Now, when stam people can use enchant from backbar poison injection - here we go, shout outs.0 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭That setup is fckup to be honest, I just made it on Torug's Pact, Twin Sisters and Velidreth, and indeed mobs die in place but also my game stops working soon after I kill these pve mobs. Usually after 1-st or 2-nd mob the game freezes and boots me to desktop with an error 108 or error 200.
This is ridiculously stupid.
I'd like ZOS to give here some explanations of what just happens
. PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
quickblade418✭✭✭Also another problem about 1-handed dual-weild weapon's glyphs and infused trait is , glyph's strenght and infused value is as strong as on 2-handed weapons, shouldnt they be halfed for 1-handed weapons ?NA PC
EP
- Ishkashi - Magplar
- Orchish - Stamplar
- Amerikan Knight - Stam DK
- Déàth - Mag DK
- Psychic Venom - Mag NB
- Made in Quebec - Stam NB
- Death'inately not Dëäth - Stamden
DC
- Dëàth - Mag DK
- Death-îsh - Magden
AD
- Lìfe - Magden
- Déäth - Mag DK2 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭This kind of eliminates the incentive for a new player to want to get into PvP and also makes PvE super easy. Pretty much ruins the content, but guess with all the broken bosses we needed broken damage to kill the hundreds of broken mob spawns!Edited by Zvorgin on October 26, 2018 3:14AM1
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE6 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 26, 2018 3:28AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.2 -
Jayelf✭✭i do not know what is worse, the ppl that call themselves devs or the abusers of the whole enchant dw torugs bs.3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
Dual wield enchants should have double cooldown time. Why is dual wield the only weapon line that is allowed to double dip in enchants for full strength?
Also, enchants procing from skills is just daft, especially procing from skills cast on your backbar while on your front bar. Who asked for this power creep? Make all enchants proc only from weapon attacks - heavy and light.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.4 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
I´ve seen a few people using wall of element in PvP. Mostly frost-staff users in small-scale groups. And it´s by no means a bad skill for PvP, especially with Forward Momentum being reduced in duration.3 -
Lokov✭✭✭I have decided to share what just broke pvp in order to make everyone run it until ZOS fixes it.
Been running Trougs pact medium and heavy in pvp the last few days, you can mix it with viper and skoria for max cheese glass build, or with fury or seventh legion and blood spawn or troll kings for good sustain.
I use a infused vma axe on the back bar, as the stampede rush leaves a slow and a dot on the target that proc my enchant.
Front bar I have an infused axe and a infused dagger and use rending slashes, that will proc my enchants to.
Okey watch this.
My backbar has a 5350 damage shock enchant as it proc the extra damage off balance and so on .... every 1 sec
On my front bar I slot a disease enchant for ca 4500 and major defile and a ca 2500 oblivion damage enchant as it go through all shields.... every 1 sec.
So fare I have only run in to 1 class that can handle that kind of dots and that is a Templar as they can purge it.
Every other person I have fought in pvp died to enchants and bleeds only, I didn’t even need to use other skills, just stamped in that leaves a dot, then rending slashes and step back and watch people melt no matter how many heals or shields they throw out..
This needs a major chance and fast as pvp will die in days if this goes on... so I herby call for everyone to abuse it so hard that it breaks the game to a point where ZOS will have to change it if they want their game to be playable.
Kind regards Malleus.
Hit me up In game if you have questions.
EPelite
This builds was avalible long ago, why u start to cry just now?)))
U can use it as well, so there is no problem. Any class can abuse it.
fights became faster and dynamic so it's pretty cool, cuz all tired of TIN CAN buildsCaptain Org As More |Mag Blade| DC
Bald Dude You Know From |Stam Blade| DC
Ashot One Shot |Mag Blade| AD
Strippirella |Stam Blade| AD
Dont Touch My Tralala |Stam DK| DC
Im Badman |Mag DK| DC
Big Mac |Mag Sorc| DC
Savitar Himself |Stam Sorc| DC
Captain Old Fashion |Mag Plar| DC
Chelovek Chlen-Nevidimka |Stam Warden| DC
Welcome to my TWITCH in Russian0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
Dual wield enchants should have double cooldown time. Why is dual wield the only weapon line that is allowed to double dip in enchants for full strength?
Also, enchants procing from skills is just daft, especially procing from skills cast on your backbar while on your front bar. Who asked for this power creep? Make all enchants proc only from weapon attacks - heavy and light.
While I get where you're coming from, my first thought is "what about Crusher/Weakening uptimes for tanks?"
If we went your way, and only had them proc from light & heavy attacks (which I'm not hugely opposed to, fwiw), would you think it a problem to double (or so) the duration of Crusher & Weakening enchantments? Because otherwise your proposal would be a significant blow to tanks, in this area.1 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
Dual wield enchants should have double cooldown time. Why is dual wield the only weapon line that is allowed to double dip in enchants for full strength?
Also, enchants procing from skills is just daft, especially procing from skills cast on your backbar while on your front bar. Who asked for this power creep? Make all enchants proc only from weapon attacks - heavy and light.
While I get where you're coming from, my first thought is "what about Crusher/Weakening uptimes for tanks?"
If we went your way, and only had them proc from light & heavy attacks (which I'm not hugely opposed to, fwiw), would you think it a problem to double (or so) the duration of Crusher & Weakening enchantments? Because otherwise your proposal would be a significant blow to tanks, in this area.
Who says that you -have- to have 100 % uptime on crusher and weakening? I mean, I enjoy my WoE procing +spell damage infinitely even when on my front bar, but it's not something I -have- to have. And it's power creep.
I'm not necessarily against increasing the duration of these enchants, if that means they only will proc off of light/heavy attacks then I think that's a nice compromise, but I don't see why groups -must- have 100 % uptime on either enchant.
In fact, weakening and crusher especially being so powerful as they are, means less build diversity. I play a tank myself, and I don't particularly enjoy being pigeonholed into the role as a buff/debuff guy for the rest of the group. If something like Defending trait or Shielding glyph was more powerful in comparison to weakening and crusher with infused, then perhaps we would have a bit more build diversity instead of one spec that is vastly superior to all others.1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of you are really selfish. Just trash Torugs for the thankless support roles in pve so you can waggle your “spears” a bit longer in pvp? Really? Revert this last change to enchants, no need to fix what ain’t broke.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of you are really selfish. Just trash Torugs for the thankless support roles in pve so you can waggle your “spears” a bit longer in pvp? Really? Revert this last change to enchants, no need to fix what ain’t broke.
Not all tanks enjoy being forced into a Torug's/infused/crusher meta. I play a tank, and I certainly don't enjoy it.
Anyway, that's a whole other issue. Most people here agree that the multiple enchants proc'ing is pretty much only a dual wield problem, and the fix should be applied to dual wielding. Enchants proc'ing from your back bar when your on your front bar solely due to dots is still fundamentally daft, and I don't like it, even if I do benefit from it too.
Edited by Carbonised on October 26, 2018 8:54AM0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yea I do. Although I would say DW is just that much more broken tho and is the main culprit. I will agree with you guys on that. But in its entirety I don't agree with these changes.
It is always the same people who ask for broken things to remain unchanged. Is it really that hard to see how this is completely ruining pvp?Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Torugs is not the problem. Infused enchants are not the problem.
DUAL WIELD is the problem.
Here´s the problem
•When Dual Wielding, casting a weapon ability can now proc the Weapon Enchantment of either weapon. The system will favor proccing a Weapon Enchantment that is not on cooldown.
•All Weapon Enchantments now correctly proc 100% of the time when not on cooldown when any Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or weapon ability deals damage.
Agree that Torug´s Pact isn´t the issue, and to certain degree, the infused trait isn´t the one to blame either (even though I feel that it´s a bit too good in certain circumstances). But I strongly disagree that dual-wield is the issue.Emma_Overload wrote: »Just double the cooldown for each dual wield enchant, or cut the enchant strength in half. That would be fair.
ZOS could simple revert the changes, or some of the changes. I would personally just see ground targeted AoE´s to be able to proc enchant from off-bar (as it was pre-Murkmire). Do that and all is Gucci.
The problem with that is that ground effect AOE are only useful in PvP for zergs, I never have anything like that slotted when I'm running solo. It's really nice being able to hit someone with Reach on my back bar to keep an enchant up. It would be SO disappointing if that got nerfed.
Just so we all understand each other @Koensol; are you saying that you feel a single enchant procing off of a single-target DoT skill on a weapon like a destruction staff is "broken" (as in over-performing) and "completely ruining pvp"?
Because a) the discussion you quoted is about the currently overpowered state we're in with Dual Wielding (and other factors), and b) @Emma_Overload was actually calling for a (sensible) nerf, if you read it like I did. She just doesn't want them to needlessly nerf single-target skills of other weapon lines that are not experiencing the same imbalance DW is right now, which seems reasonable to me... I just want to make sure I'm on the same page, because I'm interested in this thread and where it's going.
So do you feel that all weapons are now over the top, performance wise? Do I understand correctly?
Enchants were fine as they were and no one complained about them as far as I can see. With this change, yet another skill layer has been removed from pvp, because you don't even need to weave light/heavy attacks anymore to keep high uptime on your enchants. The amount of pressure you can put on people with constant infused enchant procs, with MINIMAL effort, is too strong if you ask me. Especially when combined with the usual cancer aka sloads, viper, etc.
I just find it funny that it is always the same people who are scares to death that their crutches are taken away. I can understand why @Emma_Overload doesn't want it removed. Its simply free damage with minimal effort. Doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. This game already has more than enough damage as it is. We don't need more easy mode cheese.3 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭I've been running DW torug's+insfused for ages, but then I mostly play PvE. For PvE i find it useful as you can sacrifice a bit of AOE damage for more single target damage.
I don't think the problem is Torug's or infused itself. Double enchants on DW is a big factor, and also in that it procs of dots.
Havn't logged in lately to try Murkmire, but Before it only procced on Weapon skills. Included Endless hail and wall of elements etc. So one reason it's a bit op is that you can drop endless hail or something similar. It will proc while you do nothing. Block run away, etc. You don't even have to target...
Targeting is hard in PVP, especially in speed meta, so it makes sense that people shift their damage sources to things that proc, where you don't even have to target them.
0 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭There is an easy fix, just set damage in pvp to half or a 1/3 of pve, thus no nerfing needed and this type or amount of damage becomes a thing of the pastMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike1
