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FAKE TANKS in dungeon finder
LegendaryArcher
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I'm a damage dealer. My queue takes very long. But that's ok because I don't find playing tank or healer fun.
I wait for my turn. 30 - 60 min later, it's time! The other DD is low CP. Good. I like PUGs. Looks like this vWGT is his first. I like helping players.
The healer seems to know what he's doing. On the first add pack, he casts Elemental Drain. This is gonna be an easy run.
But then I see Lightning Form. The Sorcerer rushes forward, aggroing everything, dies to the flesh atro. He's our tank. Then he starts complaining about us being slow and no healing.
I tell the fake tank to get out of the group, but he doesn't. He knows the 15 minute timer isn't over yet. And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't. If we kick him, we won't find a tank for an hour or so.
He has no taunt and refuses to slot one. So I do that. I'm tanking the first boss and have 75% group dps on that fight. On trash, I always have more than 80%. The other DD is CP 300-ish, but does use dual wield and bow, Endless Hail, Caltrops, definitely not a snipe spammer. But the fake tank is max CP. Not only does he not have taunt even though he queued as a tank, but he also doesn't even carry his own weight as DD. Too many heavy attacks, terrible rotation. He was doing 5% at best.
Shortly before last boss, we finally kick him and finish the dungeon.
Sadly, this happens 2 out of 3 times I PUG random vet. It's just a different dungeon every time. I'm not counting the fake tanks that slot taunt. They're not fake. It's the ones that don't slot taunt even though they queue as tank. Out of about 100 fake tanks I encountered, maybe 5 were able to carry their own weight as DDs, meaning, at least 30% group dps on their part.
ZOS, please do something about this.
I wait for my turn. 30 - 60 min later, it's time! The other DD is low CP. Good. I like PUGs. Looks like this vWGT is his first. I like helping players.
The healer seems to know what he's doing. On the first add pack, he casts Elemental Drain. This is gonna be an easy run.
But then I see Lightning Form. The Sorcerer rushes forward, aggroing everything, dies to the flesh atro. He's our tank. Then he starts complaining about us being slow and no healing.
I tell the fake tank to get out of the group, but he doesn't. He knows the 15 minute timer isn't over yet. And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't. If we kick him, we won't find a tank for an hour or so.
He has no taunt and refuses to slot one. So I do that. I'm tanking the first boss and have 75% group dps on that fight. On trash, I always have more than 80%. The other DD is CP 300-ish, but does use dual wield and bow, Endless Hail, Caltrops, definitely not a snipe spammer. But the fake tank is max CP. Not only does he not have taunt even though he queued as a tank, but he also doesn't even carry his own weight as DD. Too many heavy attacks, terrible rotation. He was doing 5% at best.
Shortly before last boss, we finally kick him and finish the dungeon.
Sadly, this happens 2 out of 3 times I PUG random vet. It's just a different dungeon every time. I'm not counting the fake tanks that slot taunt. They're not fake. It's the ones that don't slot taunt even though they queue as tank. Out of about 100 fake tanks I encountered, maybe 5 were able to carry their own weight as DDs, meaning, at least 30% group dps on their part.
ZOS, please do something about this.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates
30
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Snipress✭✭✭I don't understand why someone would queue as a fake tank or healer for a vet dungeon.
People are so impatient.Finding beauty in negative spaces.
Officer & recruiter for Lunacy on the Xbox - NA server.22 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't even know how ZOS could fix this if they tried.
Other MMO group finders can check you have the right spec to allow you to flag as a tank or healer, but in ESO you can't do that because there is not spec, it's free form character building.
You could run a check on if they have a taunt slotted, but that could just be changed once inside the dungeon. The same for any HP checks, fit loads of +Health items, queue tank and then remove it afterwards.
Locking the skills onto the bar would make sure you couldn't remove them, but most DD can do fine with one skill removed and having a useless taunt on the bar.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."10 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Had the same problem yesterday, but at the other end of the stick. Like I always have when I pug as tank. Join the dungeon, get the feeling early that the DPS is low, and at the first boss the group has a solid 17k DPS with 5 of them being mine as tank.
Fake DPS is real as well, and extremely common. Don't queue for a dungeon if you don't know your role, regardless of which one it is.EU PC15 -
Monsieur✭✭✭There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.
The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.26 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Vildebill , I would not say that it's fake DPS. Fake DPS is when they slot taunt and shield and do tank's job, or stay at the back and cast healing springs on the group as opposed to doing damage, but what you're describing is just bad DPS. Happens too, but it's a different beast (just like there are honest tanks that are squishy or don't know mechanics yet or what have you).
Off the top of my head, I can imagine some boss getting attacks (some special sort) that would one shot anyone - and S+B passive that would defend against such sort of mechanic. If someone's not wearing shield and taunting, fights become impossible, boss takes out the group one by one. ^^ But then it's a dirty hack and many will correct me, pointing out all the cases where it hurts gameplay. It's a social problem first and foremost, it's hard to solve social problems using technical means.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.
The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.
Fake dps is one that slots and ice staff and constantly taunts for no reason and doesn't try to do anything else but take aggro, which I have seen.
I also think people who light attack only are fake dps, because they know full well that they should be using skills. It's one thing to have a bad or no rotation, it's another to not have any skill usage at all.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 26, 2018 9:01AM11 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@John_Falstaff @Monsieur depends on how you see it I guess, but if a player states that he/she is a damage dealer and then only light attack with his/hers bow to get 7k DPS or whatever, you are obviously not a damage dealer. That's why I call if fake. It's the same as someone claiming to be a tank and not tanking.
If they are damage dealers, so is both the healer and the tank since they are doing as much DPS. To call it bad DPS is just a lame excuse since it's exactly the same as faking a tank/healer role.EU PC7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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I think that's more inexperienced or unknowledgeable player, not a fake one.spartaxoxo wrote: »There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.
The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.
Fake dps is one that slots and ice staff and constantly taunts for no reason and doesn't try to do anything else but take aggro, which I have seen.
I also think people who light attack only are fake dps, because they know full well that they should be using skills. It's one thing to have a bad or no rotation, it's another to not have any skill usage at all.
Fake implies they know it's not real and have chosen to take that role, where's most just don't understand why what they do isn't correct.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."16 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't even know how ZOS could fix this if they tried.
Other MMO group finders can check you have the right spec to allow you to flag as a tank or healer, but in ESO you can't do that because there is not spec, it's free form character building.
You could run a check on if they have a taunt slotted, but that could just be changed once inside the dungeon. The same for any HP checks, fit loads of +Health items, queue tank and then remove it afterwards.
Locking the skills onto the bar would make sure you couldn't remove them, but most DD can do fine with one skill removed and having a useless taunt on the bar.
It is pretty much this.
There is nothing more than can be done and it would likely be pointless. Locking the skill in the bar could cause other issues for real healers and tanks, even DPS. That oops, do not have this skill slotted and Zos will not let me change it now.
The best thing to do if it is a normal dungeon is kick the fake tanks, slot the undaunted taunt yourself and move on. Most normal dungeons can be tanked by a dps or healer with a taunt.Edited by idk on October 26, 2018 9:10AM2 -
Gatviper✭✭✭✭
You've got to consider the new Psijic tree skill, Imbue Weapon (and it's morphs) however - Link which is used by making light attacks and actually does lot of dps. So in that case using light attacks only would definitely not be a fake dps.spartaxoxo wrote: »I also think people who light attack only are fake dps, because they know full well that they should be using skills. It's one thing to have a bad or no rotation, it's another to not have any skill usage at all.Edited by Gatviper on October 26, 2018 9:11AMLife is a ride, like days in a train, cities rush by, like ghosts in the night.
The rhythm of wheels, time fades away, stations of a journey, destination unknown.2 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Like the old saying goes, if you want something done right, do it yourself. The only reliable solution to the problem of getting fake tanks in your PUGs is to make a tank and do it yourself. Side bonus, community tank pool increased by one for every person who does that, which in turn shortens queue times for everyone.
BTW, I'm following my own advice. Got sick of all the BS that DPS have to put up with, and I'm not just talking about queue times. So I respeced my character into a tank and successfully completed several dungeons since with a lot less drama than I usually see. There was one group where someone was complaining about a "LAing bowtard", but since we had an actual tank it didn't really matter."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Sleep724✭✭✭✭✭If Zos could make it somehow that a tank is required to slot a taunt for both the search and while doing the dungeon and if they remove the taunt from their bar they are given 2 minutes to put it back and if they don’t in those 2 minutes they are automatically kicked.2
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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As I said above though, no DD build is broken by the removal of one skill. Just place the taunt is slot five on a bar and forget it's there.If Zos could make it somehow that a tank is required to slot a taunt for both the search and while doing the dungeon and if they remove the taunt from their bar they are given 2 minutes to put it back and if they don’t in those 2 minutes they are automatically kicked.
You're still a tank in the games eyes but don't need to tank at all.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see the words Fake DPS/Healer/Tank all the time. It's really bad DPS/Healer/Tank that is meant. I agree that the game does not do enough to really teach these roles to players. It does not provide a coherent guide that lays out the skills as they relate.
I do hate when others bring up other games as a comparison as most time it is not relevant. But I do think I have a relevant point with The Secret World. There you had to pass a NPC test to advance into Veteran level content. It had three ways to pass the test, as a DPS, as a Healer or as a Tank. Now there you only had to pass one way then could que for any role.
So perhaps if there has a similar NPC test for the roles to unlock them for Veteran content. Vet only as until then you need to learn the mechanics and gain the skills, some of which are from the Undaunted line which requires running the normal dungeons. I would suggest that the NPC test only unlocks the role that you tested for on that character, but you could respec, regear or change skills to pass as another role as well if a player would like.
The NPC tester runs the player through a variety of vet mechanics as well as being able to use the role at a certain level of competence. If you fail the test, have it point out what was lacking. No cool down for the testing and it is solo instanced.
Then we as players have to accept that there are no fake roles, only poorly equipped ones. Accept that normal dungeons are for training and you will have poor or excellent equipped roles in them.
Players will also know what is expected of them as a Veteran level Role. Passing the test NPC would just be the first step, players will still improve but that takes time just like everything else. At least all would know that you have the Role so have the basics down enough to play at that level of play.
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Gatviper✭✭✭✭Here's an idea to make people become more aware of them needing to stick to their chosen roles. If someone gets kicked because he wasn't helpful to the group in their role, put them into a special zone where you have to pass certain dps / heal / tank choices (selectable) presented by a NPC, not able to leave the zone until they pass that test. If they don't pass the test, and, say, 5 minutes passed, allow them be ported out again, but let that kind of thing happen each time the above situation occurs.
That should annoy people quickly enough, who queue in faking their role, so they would start to think twice before repeating their behaviour, or stop queuing in. Either way, it would be a win for healthier random groups.Life is a ride, like days in a train, cities rush by, like ghosts in the night.
The rhythm of wheels, time fades away, stations of a journey, destination unknown.7 -
ATomiX96✭✭✭✭✭
✭#PlayAsYouWant good concept right? Cant really restrict classes to certain roles because of it, and checking if someone has a taunt slotted doesnt help either, they can just unslot it right away when they enter.3 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭I think open-ended group compositions should be allowed. 3 or 4 DDs. But they should know the risk of wiping and/or getting bad DD's from the queue, and by queueing that way they should know they cant complain about lack of this and that
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Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
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Generally agree, tank should have the taunt slotted, but if he did agro everything, I see no reason for blaming him - he played his role in this moment even without slotted tauntLegendaryArcher wrote: »But then I see Lightning Form. The Sorcerer rushes forward, aggroing everything, dies to the flesh atro. He's our tank. Then he starts complaining about us being slow and no healing.
. And indeed it's the healer to blame that tank died while aggroing everything, maybe healer was indeed not prepared for this, too slow or was just very busy applying elemental drain on all the ads .
I've seen so many complaints on this forum that tank doesn't have the ability to taunt not only the boss but also all ads. If he finally does, there will always be someone calling him fake, just because he didn't do the old fashioned ability taunt.
Did you just write that you like helping people? Where was this help? You told the tank to leave after his first - according to you - mistake. Were you just irritated of the fact the tank blamed you and healer of his death and this was a reason?LegendaryArcher wrote: »I tell the fake tank to get out of the group, but he doesn't.LegendaryArcher wrote: »I'm tanking the first boss and have 75% group dps on that fight. On trash, I always have more than 80%. The other DD is CP 300-ish, but does use dual wield and bow, Endless Hail, Caltrops, definitely not a snipe spammer. But the fake tank is max CP. Not only does he not have taunt even though he queued as a tank, but he also doesn't even carry his own weight as DD. Too many heavy attacks, terrible rotation. He was doing 5% at best.
So I have a question. If he queued as a tank, but according to you he was a fake tank, which we can't confirm, does it mean he should be automatically a Damage Dealer doing damage? How do you know he did a "terrible rotation". Can you give more details of his build? What Staff, what sets, he was using? And how much % would suits you, if 5% was so low?
Tbh, I have enough seeing this BS about how much % dps is done by this or that player or the bragging about someone pulling more than 80% of group dps. Sorry, to me without your video proof it's just braging and completely unreliable. But even with video it really doesn't matter how much you pull - keep it for yourself!
Shortly before last boss means you kicked him on purpose (in revenge, so he could not complete) right? If you could finish the dung without 4-th real tank, what other reason could be. And yet you wrote you like helping people.LegendaryArcher wrote: »Shortly before last boss, we finally kick him and finish the dungeon.
I agree with you that fake tanks is a real problem, but also our own attitude is a problem sometimes. If you don't know well a guy, you can't be sure of what abilities he use and why. Maybe it's his playing style, different than yours, however no doubt he should slot taunt or use another way to keep the boss on him if he is a tank. I always slot taunt on my tanks and the only exception is my sorcerer tank using the costless Frost Staff heavy attack. I guess this guy didn't have a Frost Staff?LegendaryArcher wrote: »Sadly, this happens 2 out of 3 times I PUG random vet. It's just a different dungeon every time. I'm not counting the fake tanks that slot taunt. They're not fake. It's the ones that don't slot taunt even though they queue as tank. Out of about 100 fake tanks I encountered, maybe 5 were able to carry their own weight as DDs, meaning, at least 30% group dps on their part.
If he aggroes all ads and die, don't blame him, blame the healer. If he hasn't aggroed enough ads and the ads would kill you, would you blame the tank for not taunting ads? Some people definitely would, I've seen it.
If you can finish dungeon without a tank, why kicking him even if he is not listening. Let him finish, keep telling him what wrong they do, be patient, even if they won't listen to you, even if their damage is only 5% as you claim, he won't have a chance to understand if you kick him in revenge. Maybe he will read again what you wrote in chat after the run is over and will understand and use your advices in next run.
I'm not defending fake tanks, I also don't like them. But I also don't like to kick and be kicked, as there is usually a lot of misunderstanding, especially in multilingual community.
PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."6 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Gargath , I have to note that it's not correct to blame healer for not saving a squishy dps spec that jumped into middle of everything. Yes he 'taunted', but it doesn't mean he tried to be a tank while wearing (I suppose) light armor and staff. Can't heal stupidity.5 -
Monsieur✭✭✭@John_Falstaff @Monsieur depends on how you see it I guess, but if a player states that he/she is a damage dealer and then only light attack with his/hers bow to get 7k DPS or whatever, you are obviously not a damage dealer. That's why I call if fake. It's the same as someone claiming to be a tank and not tanking.
If they are damage dealers, so is both the healer and the tank since they are doing as much DPS. To call it bad DPS is just a lame excuse since it's exactly the same as faking a tank/healer role.
I think you’ve missed the point. A fake tank / healer is someone who doesn’t taunt or heal. A fake dps by definition would be someone who doesn’t do any dps - unless someone is afk or dead, there isn’t such a thing as fake dps.
The problem comes when you have players that are simply abusing the queuing system with absolutely no intention of tanking or healing - this is what ruins the game for many people who use the random dungeon finder.
By the other token, what you call fake dps, are simply people who aren’t as good at the game as you may be. These people don’t ruin the game for the majority of other players, only the few who think it’s acceptable to denegrate others based on their ability to play a game.
To think that someone intentionally joins the random dungeon finder as a dps, knowing the queue is going to be 30+ minutes to intentionally do lower dps than they are capable of is laughable.
By the same token the fact that people queue as roles that they have no intention of performing because they are quite frankly selfish, is a shame and a black mark on the community and game.
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I see the words Fake DPS/Healer/Tank all the time. It's really bad DPS/Healer/Tank that is meant.
No, when people say Fake Tank/Healer, they mean Fake Tank/Healer. It's people signing up for a job with no intention of actually doing the job just so they can cut the line. Not unlike a factory worker with no medical training putting on some scrubs and calling himself a brain surgeon because the pay is better. He's not a bad doctor. He's not a doctor, period. He's a fraud and he's going to get people killed.
Fake DPS on the other hand usually is just bad DPS. Low damage does not by itself make one a Fake DPS. Now if all they were doing is taunting the boss off the tank or throwing out heals without doing any damage, then maybe a case could be made that they are frauds. But even just LA bow spam is still DPS."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."9 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gargath , I have to note that it's not correct to blame healer for not saving a squishy dps spec that jumped into middle of everything. Yes he 'taunted', but it doesn't mean he tried to be a tank while wearing (I suppose) light armor and staff. Can't heal stupidity.
I generally agree with you, but where in the OP's post you see anyting that was a "squishy dps spec" tank? I see nothing about specs or stats. Just an info that fake tank had no taunt ability slotted.PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Gargath, OP mentioned Lightning Form, so it's probably a magsorc. We can of course assume that it was a magsorc spec'd for - what, shield tanking? - but it's not awfully likely. Either way, OP can elaborate.Edited by John_Falstaff on October 26, 2018 10:22AM0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.
The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.
Of course it does. They should add an "other" option to the group finder so that people who get out-dpsed by a healer or a tank can apply for the right role.
I'm pugging very regularly as a tank/ healer, and most pug "DPS" players hardly reach 10k in boss fights.Edited by Thraben on October 26, 2018 10:32AMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Or maybe the community could help teach one another to improve. We would have more quality end game players if we helped new ones learn rather than belittling them and kicking them from groups.There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.
The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.
Of course it does. They should add an "other" option to the group finder so that people who get out-dpsed by a healer or a tank can apply for the right role.
We all start somewhere.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."8 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@John_Falstaff @Monsieur depends on how you see it I guess, but if a player states that he/she is a damage dealer and then only light attack with his/hers bow to get 7k DPS or whatever, you are obviously not a damage dealer. That's why I call if fake. It's the same as someone claiming to be a tank and not tanking.
If they are damage dealers, so is both the healer and the tank since they are doing as much DPS. To call it bad DPS is just a lame excuse since it's exactly the same as faking a tank/healer role.
I think you’ve missed the point. A fake tank / healer is someone who doesn’t taunt or heal. A fake dps by definition would be someone who doesn’t do any dps - unless someone is afk or dead, there isn’t such a thing as fake dps.
The problem comes when you have players that are simply abusing the queuing system with absolutely no intention of tanking or healing - this is what ruins the game for many people who use the random dungeon finder.
By the other token, what you call fake dps, are simply people who aren’t as good at the game as you may be. These people don’t ruin the game for the majority of other players, only the few who think it’s acceptable to denegrate others based on their ability to play a game.
To think that someone intentionally joins the random dungeon finder as a dps, knowing the queue is going to be 30+ minutes to intentionally do lower dps than they are capable of is laughable.
By the same token the fact that people queue as roles that they have no intention of performing because they are quite frankly selfish, is a shame and a black mark on the community and game.
I see what you mean, but your idea of bad DPS instead of fake DPS is that every player doing extremely low damage (I'm not talking like 15k, more like 5k) is not aware that they are that bad. That can't be the case, of course some players might not be so insightful, but most people must know that everything is taking too long, and they are dying easily. If you know that you often get in those situations you should stop queue in the group finder and start practicing your DPS, otherwise you're just as much dead weight as a fake tank/healer.
I've met a lot of DDs who says that they know their DPS suck but still queue because they want to do the dungeon. I see no difference from that and what you call fake tanking.EU PC5 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Thraben , it doesn't mean someone's a fake. They might be trying to do as much damage as they can, honestly so. They're inexperienced; they might have just in from other games where skills are used sporadically and light attack is the way to go, who knows. (Besides, Relequen + Crushing Weapon + bow attacks, and there you may have a team of single bar light-attacking bow people that may be able to clear some vet trials. ^^)
Point in case, weak/inexperienced is just that, bad at what they do. Fake, not even trying to fill the role.2 -
mustangmorgan31✭✭✭✭NO one should ever queue as a fake tank in a vet dungeon but I don't see a problem with someone queuing as a fake tank in a non dlc normal dungeon. As long as that said fake tank is doing the majority of the dps. I do it all the time. No need for a tank when I have the stuff dead long before the tank can even do anything. I have never had anyone complain but probably because I am always doing 70-80 percent of the dps. Also, as someone who has a real tank, there is nothing worse than queuing as a real tank and an easy normal dungeon that normally takes you 6 minutes, is taking an hour because the dps is awful. At least if I queue as a fake tank on my high DD I know I will not be in the dungeon longer than I have too. I also slot inner fire if I need too because I hate when the bosses are away from me since I am doing majority of the dps.
But yes no one should ever ever do that in a random vet queue. Those people should be kicked. But also I don't think we should really complain about low dps. I don't mind carrying. I think a lot of us veteran players have forgotten what it is like for new players. I started playing on the EU server and you start from scratch. I have gained back my empathy for new players. It is quite hard for no cp players to have great dps. Most new players don't really understand rotations, gear, mechanics, etc. We should give them a break.2 -
Monsieur✭✭✭@John_Falstaff @Monsieur depends on how you see it I guess, but if a player states that he/she is a damage dealer and then only light attack with his/hers bow to get 7k DPS or whatever, you are obviously not a damage dealer. That's why I call if fake. It's the same as someone claiming to be a tank and not tanking.
If they are damage dealers, so is both the healer and the tank since they are doing as much DPS. To call it bad DPS is just a lame excuse since it's exactly the same as faking a tank/healer role.
I think you’ve missed the point. A fake tank / healer is someone who doesn’t taunt or heal. A fake dps by definition would be someone who doesn’t do any dps - unless someone is afk or dead, there isn’t such a thing as fake dps.
The problem comes when you have players that are simply abusing the queuing system with absolutely no intention of tanking or healing - this is what ruins the game for many people who use the random dungeon finder.
By the other token, what you call fake dps, are simply people who aren’t as good at the game as you may be. These people don’t ruin the game for the majority of other players, only the few who think it’s acceptable to denegrate others based on their ability to play a game.
To think that someone intentionally joins the random dungeon finder as a dps, knowing the queue is going to be 30+ minutes to intentionally do lower dps than they are capable of is laughable.
By the same token the fact that people queue as roles that they have no intention of performing because they are quite frankly selfish, is a shame and a black mark on the community and game.
I see what you mean, but your idea of bad DPS instead of fake DPS is that every player doing extremely low damage (I'm not talking like 15k, more like 5k) is not aware that they are that bad. That can't be the case, of course some players might not be so insightful, but most people must know that everything is taking too long, and they are dying easily. If you know that you often get in those situations you should stop queue in the group finder and start practicing your DPS, otherwise you're just as much dead weight as a fake tank/healer.
I've met a lot of DDs who says that they know their DPS suck but still queue because they want to do the dungeon. I see no difference from that and what you call fake tanking.
I get where you’re coming from, if a dps knows he doesn’t have enough dps to pass a mechanical dps check in a dungeon, then yes they are being selfish. I still wouldn’t consider this fake dps as ultimately they are still fulfilling the only requirement to be a dps; doing damage, whereas a tank that doesn’t taunt isn’t.
But, I think that’s a very different argument to someone queuing for a role they have no intention of performing, which is what this thread and countless other threads are about.
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These days when I queue for a random and see a tank, it’s a nice surprise - it shouldn’t be that way.
Just slot a damn taunt.
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