Mage's Wrath stealing kills in BGs

Biro123 · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Whoever actually gets it to proc, whoever actually commits to the kill, gets the kill. If the Sorc wants the kill, they'll have to commit to it.

You just shift the stealing away from the Sorc and to the other players.

Especially dot builds.. gonna be so rng, based on whichever dot tick drops them below the threshold.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

But it isn't an issue if no sorc is involved in it. You should know that by now.

Mojomonkeyman · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Whoever actually gets it to proc, whoever actually commits to the kill, gets the kill. If the Sorc wants the kill, they'll have to commit to it.

You just shift the stealing away from the Sorc and to the other players.

How? A sorc committed to any fight won't just spam wrath. Wrath will be applied and ideally triggered by curse & frags + spammable. That's plenty of damage to secure your own kill. It would give other players an actual chance to compete getting the kill IF the sorc is doing nothing but spamming wrath, which is what people are asking for.

That being said, I find steel tornado to be the far more concerning kill stealing tool when it comes to high level premade fights this patch. That will hopefully change with Swift + FM nerfs. Nothing more frustrating than actually winning a fight with a pressure setup but getting no credit for it cuz stamina nerd team no3 jumps in doing barely more than steel tornado but scoring all the kills.

Feanor · October 2018

@Mojomonkeyman

I respect your opinion, but consider that Sorc burst takes at least 4 seconds to actually do something. It’s quite common to cast Fury before the opponent is in execute range because it adds more pressure, at least psychologically. So, Curse goes off and I have CC’ed my opponent, and Frags hit. All I need to trigger the precast Fury now is a Force Pulse hit. Now player XY comes in and is quicker because I’m still on GCD from the Frag cast. His damage triggers Fury. He gets the kill because he procs Fury. I did commit to the fight and did all the work, but get no credit.

That’s exactly reversed kill stealing, only now the Sorc is punished.

Mojomonkeyman · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Mojomonkeyman

I respect your opinion, but consider that Sorc burst takes at least 4 seconds to actually do something. It’s quite common to cast Fury before the opponent is in execute range because it adds more pressure, at least psychologically. So, Curse goes off and I have CC’ed my opponent, and Frags hit. All I need to trigger the precast Fury now is a Force Pulse hit. Now player XY comes in and is quicker because I’m still on GCD from the Frag cast. His damage triggers Fury. He gets the kill because he procs Fury. I did commit to the fight and did all the work, but get no credit.

That’s exactly reversed kill stealing, only now the Sorc is punished.

Not sure it would be black & white scenarios, it would probably lead to a more balanced diversity of killing blow distribution compared to now while still not eliminating situations that feel unfair.

I'm still favoring a solution where the person who did the most damage to the target gets credit for the killing blow no matter who actually executed the target. Executes itself do a lot of damage and a full msorc combo is potent enough to ensure that a large part of your focus targets will be "your kills" while giving pressure setups the chance to compete.

Feanor · October 2018

@Mojomonkeyman

I agree there would be more of a grey area where it balances out. You win some, you lose some. I think though that it will not get changed simply because Killing Blows are easiest to track and need no additional coding. And ZOS does like to use what they already have because it doesn’t cost anything.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

It does steal kills a lot but tbh I've never had that much of an issue with it. It's a unique skill and I wouldn't want to see it homogenised.

If they wanted to adjust scoring to include something like "assist count as kill" though, I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

Ragnaroek93 · October 2018

It's the fault of the scoring system. The number of Killing Blows which you have doesn't say much. The best thing would be if ZOS gets rid of it and only takes one thing into consideration: Does your team win or not? People would finally focus more on actually winning, which is the main goal of bgs and shouldn't get overshaded by getting ahead in Killing Blows or whatever.

pokrakus · October 2018

I do a lot of BGs with all classes and really do not see the sorcs kill steal problem. Just look at the end of match on score board on DMG out put, most sorcs with highest kill ratio do a lot of DMG so they work for those kills. Of course u may meet some 20 kills sorc with 200k dmg, I never did.
You could also Ask for bow skill line nerf as it has crazy dot execute and most its users are in stealth preparing crit snipe and it will be buff next patch with knockdown from other bow skill.
What about You tell ppl not DMG Your targets at all so they will not steal Your kills. You know its ridiculous.
Better ask ZOS for making 1v1 arenas with 5 rounds. No one will kill steal from you. I would like it too.
Thing is pvp in eso is group oriented and u always will kill steal from ppl.
For me personally the BEST players of match are those with highest dmg and heal output even they loose match. That what I care about are high numbers.
For me is easier to kill steal as NB by the way.

steussy · October 2018

greenmachine wrote: »

Take their shields away. Dead sorcs can't execute.

No need ZOS took care of that.

steussy · October 2018

Ivan04 wrote: »

You know what the issue is for over a year now, I know coding is hard, but please pay attention to it and fix it.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel

I main sorc and it's whiney little brats like this kid is why this game is no longer enjoyable anymore.

mojomood · October 2018

steussy wrote: »

greenmachine wrote: »

Take their shields away. Dead sorcs can't execute.

No need ZOS took care of that.

LOL...Sorcs will be just fine next patch. With the Dodge nerf, you'll land a LOT more of those casts, which is a sustain and damage buff. Those in heavy will have a hard time catching you now with the speed nerfs. So while you might not be able to stack as much damage, you'll be fine. I'm personally not in favor of any pre-executes since they will proc above execute range. It's been proven many times that Mages Fury and Implosion can proc at 40-50% as long as the incoming damage would take the target to execute range. Pre-executes should not be a thing.

Lord-Otto · October 2018

mojomood wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

greenmachine wrote: »

Take their shields away. Dead sorcs can't execute.

No need ZOS took care of that.

LOL...Sorcs will be just fine next patch. With the Dodge nerf, you'll land a LOT more of those casts, which is a sustain and damage buff. Those in heavy will have a hard time catching you now with the speed nerfs. So while you might not be able to stack as much damage, you'll be fine. I'm personally not in favor of any pre-executes since they will proc above execute range. It's been proven many times that Mages Fury and Implosion can proc at 40-50% as long as the incoming damage would take the target to execute range. Pre-executes should not be a thing.

See, here's the thing (and mind you, the following isn't meant specifically for you). Every non-sorc wannabe-expert always says something like "oooh, just drop your damage, kekeke".
WHAT DAMAGE???
Sorcs run two sustain sets. TWO! And even the monster set is often for stats or even more sustain.
More over, do you know what happens when a sorc drops damage so much he can't oneshot you with his burst anymore? You won't die. Ever. Because sorcs do not -I repeat- DO NOT have sufficient pressure tools to decide a fight other than oneshotting you.

Geez, "just lower your damage", how about you guys out there do the same, starting by putting on two sustain sets and sustain food? How about you fxxx play sorc for a bit before spitting out the same wrong nonsense all the time?
Inb4 "I'm just fine with my Destruction Mastery Necropotence setup". No, you're not. You're a fxxx zergling and a keyboard warrior.

ecru · October 2018

jrgray93 wrote: »

That said, I'm not sure how they could address that.

easy. remove one of the teams. problem solved. also i just solved almost every other problem with bg's too. kill stealing only matters because of the ridiculous decision to make bg's three teams.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · October 2018

Like pretty much every unbiased player has said (sorc and non-sorc) the skill itself is not the issue. Wrath and Fury are useful skills but by no means OP.

The solution could be twofold. When it procs by a member of your team dealing the damage then it should count as an assist, not the kil itself. When it procs from your own damage it counts as a kill.

When proc'd by an enemy player then it should still count as a kill as kill stealing is a valid tactic to deny the enemy teams points.

This then means we're creating a unique rule that hits sorcs, which does not scream fair and decent.

Overall it's tough to resolve this as like we say, it's not the skill, it's the calculation being too basic for kills in deathmatch (kills in other game types are much less important).

I think ZOS need to look at this but not make changes until a proper alternative is found (unlike the jump the gun shield changes of PTS week 1).

Miswar · October 2018

To be honest you don't need to be fixated about this issue. The nerfmire dlc will take care of this and mag sorcs will be either on other games or people using them as crafters.

..but by all means lets nerf mages wrath to ground as well... just make 1k heal tic with 20s cooldown.

Everyone will be happy and ZoS has delivered yet again balance to the game.

Would this make people happy? ... we also should remove streak from the game too since it still somewhat functions and crafters can walk to the crafting stations... while we at it maybe remove curse from the game too,,,? It still can do 2-3k damage to heavy meta builds and we just can't have that .

Finally maybe some bonus balance from the mighty combat team?... mag sorcs still have the tiny heal coming from surge... lets make 10s cast time and it can be active 5s with 60s cooldown..

All these will be make the level 10's able to farm the tiny population of mag sorcs much easier.

You see I fixed the game and class in just phrases

..and don't even want copyright on these ideas. Feel free to do them in your next dlc.

TheValar85 · October 2018

Ivan04 wrote: »

I'm gonna keep starting threads regularly until our beloved devs address it in some way, because it is an issue, whether you (magsorc main) believe it or not. It's too obvious at this point and does not need explaining.

This is a QQ thread because you are lacking the player skill to do your class mechanics.

INB4LOCK.

Mayrael · October 2018

The real kill thieves in BGs are enchanted fairies with their spin2win and bleeds

It's disappointing to see that current meta is push 1 button, swap and spam LA with tornado

Sevn · October 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's the fault of the scoring system. The number of Killing Blows which you have doesn't say much. The best thing would be if ZOS gets rid of it and only takes one thing into consideration: Does your team win or not? People would finally focus more on actually winning, which is the main goal of bgs and shouldn't get overshaded by getting ahead in Killing Blows or whatever.

Totally agree. I find myself, no matter the game mode, constantly checking my kdr at the end of matches and caring way too much about it. I know it's user related, but I enjoy it much more when kdr isn't tracked and everyone is focused just on winning rather than what their personal stats look like.

ecru wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

That said, I'm not sure how they could address that.

easy. remove one of the teams. problem solved. also i just solved almost every other problem with bg's too. kill stealing only matters because of the ridiculous decision to make bg's three teams.

What would be the point of playing ESO's pvp if it played like every other basic pvp? Might as well just play one of the many many pvp games that offer it.

Odovacar · November 2018

I just love the sound of it. Someone needs to try and capture a screen shot right as they go down from it (better with sound).