Exclude DLC dungeons

HappyLittleTree · October 2018

DLC dungeons are not that hard.

mague · October 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

but most times an experienced player should be able to carry the team through any normal DLC.

On EU there are like 20+ completely different languages

The mechanics have to be easy enough to be understood on the run on normal mode. Another part of the problem are the one shots. They are ok to force organisation to groups. The casual normal mode and multilingual world does not need them.

weedgenius · October 2018

eso_nya wrote: »

group with a friend who doesnt have eso+ and didnt buy any dungeon pack.

This is what I’ve resorted to. Find someone without ESO+ and make them your dungeon buddy.

FlyingSwan · October 2018

mague wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

but most times an experienced player should be able to carry the team through any normal DLC.

On EU there are like 20+ completely different languages The mechanics have to be easy enough to be understood on the run on normal mode. Another part of the problem are the one shots. They are ok to force organisation to groups. The casual normal mode and multilingual world does not need them.

Yes, I am on PC EU, don't usually have any issues. But it is true that now and then you get a team where they obviously aren't understanding the mechs you're typing in chat, and it is a situation that you can't overcome on behalf of the rest of the team through sheer brute force.

An example I came across recently is one of the bosses in nMHK. He pins a char (usually me as I prefer to tank) and will then one-shot them if someone else does not do an interrupt. You'd think people could see what was going on here what with the massive flashing red 'interrupt me' beacon, but no, these numbskulls let me die over and over, clearly had enough grasp of English to type, 'we have good DPS why are we wiping?', and yet every time I explained the mechanic in chat they just ignored me. I was going out to dinner so politely made my excuses and left.

Ah well, sometimes you get paired with imbeciles. It's all good fun and part of the game. I'm in two great guilds but I PUG 90% of my dungeons, just for the randomness. I know with the guild I can annihilate any vet 4-man content in short order and that's useful if I want to farm some specific jewellery, but it's damned boring in terms of challenge!

sudaki_eso · October 2018

Did you bought the dlc's? If not and you are using them by paying for eso+ you can deactivate them (dont worry you can activte them at any time you want) and they wont show up anymore.

MooseKnuckles88 · October 2018

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

Don't understand why we need dun-finder.

Why not zone chat lfm, lfg dun-name then choose mode 'n/v' before enter and run as much as you can.

Because people spam zone chat with everything in their inventory or they have temper tantrums because someone lost a duel or they'll talk about something else.

Also, that would significantly cut down on your multi tasking. Now, one would be limited to staying in that zone and not farm in other zones while they wait to group.

So if you put in there "dps lf vSCP" good luck having a tank, a healer, and another dps that see it and actually request to group.

D0PAMINE · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Join up with someone who does not have access to the DLCs and you will not get the DLC dungeons. At least you cannot directly queue for them.

I have suggested multiple times that Zos could offer a toggle to include or exclude the DLC dungeons from the mix. It would be simple and Zos could keep the purple quality random reward for including the DLCs and if they are excluded the reward becomes blue quality as though it was someone's second run.

Really a simple solution and acknowledges that the random reward would be greater when greater risk and challenge is taken up.

Thats actually a really good idea.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

DLC dungeons are not that hard.

MHK is brutal, only time I had smooth runs as tank/healer, it was when there were 2-3 top-dps in team who nuked adds and nuked boss so fast so most of mechanics were overrided.. but even medium dps can't kill that fast and so it to turns to real struggle when there so many hard strikes and one-shot mechanics... yeah, this is about normal MHK. So to run normal MHK without pain you need good healer, good tank and pair of true dps and all team should know mechanics and be aware.. lol, such group in PUG is at best 25% of time.

Motherball · October 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

dlc dungeons are just too hard and too heavy on mechanics for PUGs even on normal.

I dont think they need to be nerfed or removed from the daily random. I PUG well over 95% of the dungeons I run, and I really think I'm being generous with 2-3%. DLC dungeons, on normal, arent that bad. I'm fairly casual.

Fake tanks, or fake roles in general, aren't exclusive to DLC dungeons. I've seen more fake tanks vote kicked from DLC dungeons than from base dungeons. IMO that's not always a bad thing. I'll ackowledge the difference between "I'm new" or "I don't know the mechanics" and "I'm know I'm not a real tanks but the queue is aids!"

I find WGT or SCP much more interesting than COA or BC.

Yes, the normal DLC dungeons are easy enough, should be no issues for even a moderately skilled player there. I do understand some of the struggles with some of the newer vet DLC dungeons (vMHK can be irksome for uncoordinated groups who can't grasp the mechs, even powerful groups), but really, who wants to buy a game and faceroll all content on the first go? That would be a pretty stupid expectation to hold, all games have increasing difficulty levels.

Plus, it's a great feeling the first time you do complete something you have previously struggled with. I remember when vWGT was first released I used to dread it popping in the random vet queue. Now I can waltz it and carry the odd loser who gets into the queue. Of course, some of that is power creep but a lot is that I became better at the game by stepping up to the tougher challenges. No one ever moved ahead in life by standing still, games included.

I don’t disagree, but on the other side of this are players who are still learning. Would you want to be told L2P and other hostile things while healing or tanking one of those dungeons for the first time? There should be an option for new and returning players who do not wish to be expected not to be “the random loser.”

Luckily, players can exclude dlc dungeons manually or unsubscribe and not buy dlc content. Is that a precedent the company wishes to set?

FlyingSwan · October 2018

duplicate

FlyingSwan · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

dlc dungeons are just too hard and too heavy on mechanics for PUGs even on normal.

I dont think they need to be nerfed or removed from the daily random. I PUG well over 95% of the dungeons I run, and I really think I'm being generous with 2-3%. DLC dungeons, on normal, arent that bad. I'm fairly casual.

Fake tanks, or fake roles in general, aren't exclusive to DLC dungeons. I've seen more fake tanks vote kicked from DLC dungeons than from base dungeons. IMO that's not always a bad thing. I'll ackowledge the difference between "I'm new" or "I don't know the mechanics" and "I'm know I'm not a real tanks but the queue is aids!"

I find WGT or SCP much more interesting than COA or BC.

Yes, the normal DLC dungeons are easy enough, should be no issues for even a moderately skilled player there. I do understand some of the struggles with some of the newer vet DLC dungeons (vMHK can be irksome for uncoordinated groups who can't grasp the mechs, even powerful groups), but really, who wants to buy a game and faceroll all content on the first go? That would be a pretty stupid expectation to hold, all games have increasing difficulty levels.

Plus, it's a great feeling the first time you do complete something you have previously struggled with. I remember when vWGT was first released I used to dread it popping in the random vet queue. Now I can waltz it and carry the odd loser who gets into the queue. Of course, some of that is power creep but a lot is that I became better at the game by stepping up to the tougher challenges. No one ever moved ahead in life by standing still, games included.

I don’t disagree, but on the other side of this are players who are still learning. Would you want to be told L2P and other hostile things while healing or tanking one of those dungeons for the first time? There should be an option for new and returning players who do not wish to be expected not to be “the random loser.”

Luckily, players can exclude dlc dungeons manually or unsubscribe and not buy dlc content. Is that a precedent the company wishes to set?

It's a non-argument. We all learned, and we didn't plead special snowflake status when doing so. I don't know about you but I did this:

1 - Made sure I understood my role in the normal non-DLC dungeons
2 - Asked my guildies to come with me in the normal DLC dungeons, warning them that I was of course a bit crap so please give me tips
3 - Put myself in the random normal finder and warned people that, "I am new to this dungeon so please bear with me and correct me if you see me doing anything wrong"
4 - Put my big boy pants on and just got the hell on with the vet random Finder
5 - Started normal trials in zone chat
6 - Did vet trials with my guild - this is the only content I specifically will only play with my guild, it's as much about co-ordination as anything, but it really can go wrong if you do vet trials with randoms, far too many variables

And I did not even once get any grief or rudeness, and I've been playing since beta. Today for example, put random vet Finder on and Fang Lair vet popped. A good PUG group, I was DPSing in this case and I know the dungeon well, a few wipes on a couple of bosses, but a few polite tips from me and we made it through. Nice players, great sense of achievement for those that had not done it before, and a nice feeling for me because I helped them through it.

What's so hard about that? I just don't get all this fear, it's only a bloody game. And not a particularly challenging one at that, classic theme park MMO. Great fun, but very easy on the casual player.

SteveCampsOut · October 2018

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

DLC dungeons are not that hard.

Why do you even bother posting tripe like that when it's clearly not the case for everyone. It contributes nothing to the thread and is more apt to just *** people off. It's also not at all on topic.

Cl0udW4ve · October 2018

I would like to have a similiar system SWTOR uses (not sure if it's still the same, haven't played it for a few years). In SWTOR you get the daily reward for completing a dungeon through the group finder, but you can choose for which dungeons you want to queue

SaintSubwayy · October 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

You need to have at least 300 CP to be put into a Vet DLC dungeon. If you have a problem with Vet DLC dungeons in a CP 300+ group, you're part of the problem: L2P. If you have a problem with normal DLCs, you are most definitely part of the problem: L2P.

Have to disagree here...there are so many players with more than 300 CP, who have no idea how this game works / needs to be played.

Furthermore you cannot carry a DLC vet Dungeon alone, when all others have never been in there.

Just imagine you and the tank know how a fight works, but the DD's have like 10k DPS each....vet DLC, aint gona happen
same if you have a crap tank in a dungeon that definetly need a good tank, but he drops ever 3rd hit he takes from the boss, doesnt dodge heavyattacks from bosses ect.

Jeah maybe you can complete the vet DLC dungeon, but at what cost?
I personally instleave when i get a vet DLC where I have more then 70% of the dmg as DPS / 20% DPS as healer or tank...its not worth my time.

AlnilamE · October 2018

vienna wrote: »

When some of you mention how ''easy'' are DLC dungeons, how everyone is able to finish it and so on,..you have to play Eso in parallel universe, whenever I come across a DLC dungeon it's a strugle, usually frustration and this is a norm. Of course here gives many professional gamers for who is everything easy, how everyone else suck,....DLC dungeons are $$ content, people pay for it and get content which a casual player usually consider frustration, I wonder how many would click on >>refund<< button if they could.

Dungeons take practice. The DLC and the non-DLC II ones alike.

I remember the first time I did vet Banished Cells (now Banished Cells II). The Maw fight filled the room with fire. It took us several hours to go through the dungeon and we had a good tank and a DPS that was used to running it.

Or the first time I ran vet Spindleclutch (now Spindle II). We spent several hours at the Praxin fight. We were so tired, my friend destroyed her gloves instead of repairing them. We ended up leaving at that boss.

But I had friends who liked doing pledges, so I joined them. And I not only learned the fights, I developed the muscle memory for them, so my reactions were better and I didn't get stuck in odd places anymore.

Consider that the DLC dungeons are not really harder than City of Ash II or Crypt of Hearts II once you have run them half a dozen times.

And consider as well that which dungeon people consider "difficult" will vary. Several people here said they don't like doing Mazzatun because it's hard to finish with a PUG. I have never failed to complete that dungeon with a PUG. Meanwhile, I dislike Imperial City Prison, which someone in a different thread called "the easiest DLC dungeon"

I have a friend who decided several months ago to farm the motifs from the dungeons. He started with Mazzatun, spent a couple of weeks running it in both normal and vet, and then moved on to Cradle, then Scalecaller. When he started, he went in blind and he learned the basics, then someone would teach him something he didn't know yet, like a better spot to tank a boss, or how the mechanics of something really worked. And now they are easy for him, because he has the practice under his belt.

I personally enjoy PUGging dungeons. Of course, when you just want to get your XP as fast as possible, getting Spindleclutch I is great. But if I get a DLC dungeon, I stick to my end of the bargain and we finish it. If I don't know the dungeon very well yet, I will say so, and appreciate any pointers, but I've always been able to complete them, even though I'm not a particularly good player.

So I think that the queue is fine as is. But if people really want to avoid DLC dungeons that much, then maybe @idk 's suggestion to give the "second run" reward to that option would be a good thing. So you can go for the full 100k XP and risk a DLC dungeon, or you can play it safe, but only get 33k XP.

db0ssman · October 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

vienna wrote: »

When some of you mention how ''easy'' are DLC dungeons, how everyone is able to finish it and so on,..you have to play Eso in parallel universe, whenever I come across a DLC dungeon it's a strugle, usually frustration and this is a norm. Of course here gives many professional gamers for who is everything easy, how everyone else suck,....DLC dungeons are $$ content, people pay for it and get content which a casual player usually consider frustration, I wonder how many would click on >>refund<< button if they could.

Dungeons take practice. The DLC and the non-DLC II ones alike.

I remember the first time I did vet Banished Cells (now Banished Cells II). The Maw fight filled the room with fire. It took us several hours to go through the dungeon and we had a good tank and a DPS that was used to running it.

Or the first time I ran vet Spindleclutch (now Spindle II). We spent several hours at the Praxin fight. We were so tired, my friend destroyed her gloves instead of repairing them. We ended up leaving at that boss.

But I had friends who liked doing pledges, so I joined them. And I not only learned the fights, I developed the muscle memory for them, so my reactions were better and I didn't get stuck in odd places anymore.

Consider that the DLC dungeons are not really harder than City of Ash II or Crypt of Hearts II once you have run them half a dozen times.

And consider as well that which dungeon people consider "difficult" will vary. Several people here said they don't like doing Mazzatun because it's hard to finish with a PUG. I have never failed to complete that dungeon with a PUG. Meanwhile, I dislike Imperial City Prison, which someone in a different thread called "the easiest DLC dungeon"

I have a friend who decided several months ago to farm the motifs from the dungeons. He started with Mazzatun, spent a couple of weeks running it in both normal and vet, and then moved on to Cradle, then Scalecaller. When he started, he went in blind and he learned the basics, then someone would teach him something he didn't know yet, like a better spot to tank a boss, or how the mechanics of something really worked. And now they are easy for him, because he has the practice under his belt.

I personally enjoy PUGging dungeons. Of course, when you just want to get your XP as fast as possible, getting Spindleclutch I is great. But if I get a DLC dungeon, I stick to my end of the bargain and we finish it. If I don't know the dungeon very well yet, I will say so, and appreciate any pointers, but I've always been able to complete them, even though I'm not a particularly good player.

So I think that the queue is fine as is. But if people really want to avoid DLC dungeons that much, then maybe @idk 's suggestion to give the "second run" reward to that option would be a good thing. So you can go for the full 100k XP and risk a DLC dungeon, or you can play it safe, but only get 33k XP.

I'd argue that ICP NM < Ruins NM, and the main reason is that you can overheal all the mechanics on ICP normal, but the way that ruins are set up you actually have to know the mechanics and communicate. A group will often wipe if the healer is taken at final boss and no one reveals the statue, especially if a totem is up. ICP Vet > Ruins vet. I think that because it becomes the opposite, it's impossible to overheal/ignore the mechanics in vet ICP and not doing something right is going to be instant death for whoever gets hit by it. That means most groups are actually learning what to do for the first time in ICP vet, and there DPS matters ALOT. In ruins, most people have had some practice with the mechanics doing NM and they need less adjustments to do vet.

phileunderx2 · October 2018

I have a cheap 10 dollar alt account no plus no dlcs that I run randoms on to get the jewelry style stones. Not worried about transmute crystals as I get plenty of them from pvp.

AlnilamE · October 2018

db0ssman wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

vienna wrote: »

When some of you mention how ''easy'' are DLC dungeons, how everyone is able to finish it and so on,..you have to play Eso in parallel universe, whenever I come across a DLC dungeon it's a strugle, usually frustration and this is a norm. Of course here gives many professional gamers for who is everything easy, how everyone else suck,....DLC dungeons are $$ content, people pay for it and get content which a casual player usually consider frustration, I wonder how many would click on >>refund<< button if they could.

Dungeons take practice. The DLC and the non-DLC II ones alike.

I remember the first time I did vet Banished Cells (now Banished Cells II). The Maw fight filled the room with fire. It took us several hours to go through the dungeon and we had a good tank and a DPS that was used to running it.

Or the first time I ran vet Spindleclutch (now Spindle II). We spent several hours at the Praxin fight. We were so tired, my friend destroyed her gloves instead of repairing them. We ended up leaving at that boss.

But I had friends who liked doing pledges, so I joined them. And I not only learned the fights, I developed the muscle memory for them, so my reactions were better and I didn't get stuck in odd places anymore.

Consider that the DLC dungeons are not really harder than City of Ash II or Crypt of Hearts II once you have run them half a dozen times.

And consider as well that which dungeon people consider "difficult" will vary. Several people here said they don't like doing Mazzatun because it's hard to finish with a PUG. I have never failed to complete that dungeon with a PUG. Meanwhile, I dislike Imperial City Prison, which someone in a different thread called "the easiest DLC dungeon"

I have a friend who decided several months ago to farm the motifs from the dungeons. He started with Mazzatun, spent a couple of weeks running it in both normal and vet, and then moved on to Cradle, then Scalecaller. When he started, he went in blind and he learned the basics, then someone would teach him something he didn't know yet, like a better spot to tank a boss, or how the mechanics of something really worked. And now they are easy for him, because he has the practice under his belt.

I personally enjoy PUGging dungeons. Of course, when you just want to get your XP as fast as possible, getting Spindleclutch I is great. But if I get a DLC dungeon, I stick to my end of the bargain and we finish it. If I don't know the dungeon very well yet, I will say so, and appreciate any pointers, but I've always been able to complete them, even though I'm not a particularly good player.

So I think that the queue is fine as is. But if people really want to avoid DLC dungeons that much, then maybe @idk 's suggestion to give the "second run" reward to that option would be a good thing. So you can go for the full 100k XP and risk a DLC dungeon, or you can play it safe, but only get 33k XP.

I'd argue that ICP NM < Ruins NM, and the main reason is that you can overheal all the mechanics on ICP normal, but the way that ruins are set up you actually have to know the mechanics and communicate. A group will often wipe if the healer is taken at final boss and no one reveals the statue, especially if a totem is up. ICP Vet > Ruins vet. I think that because it becomes the opposite, it's impossible to overheal/ignore the mechanics in vet ICP and not doing something right is going to be instant death for whoever gets hit by it. That means most groups are actually learning what to do for the first time in ICP vet, and there DPS matters ALOT. In ruins, most people have had some practice with the mechanics doing NM and they need less adjustments to do vet.

Thank you for that perspective. I think in normal ICP, the hardest part is the Flesh Sculptor because that's a fight that takes practice. At Lord Warden, you can ignore the portals when he goes up in the air and just heal through his AoE (which is not possible in Vet).

In Mazzatun, I never had problems in normal at the last boss, but I always ask if people know the mechanics and explain them if not, and people get it. Taking 3-5 minutes to explain things at the beginning usually is enough to get that fight done on the first try.

db0ssman · October 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

db0ssman wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

vienna wrote: »

When some of you mention how ''easy'' are DLC dungeons, how everyone is able to finish it and so on,..you have to play Eso in parallel universe, whenever I come across a DLC dungeon it's a strugle, usually frustration and this is a norm. Of course here gives many professional gamers for who is everything easy, how everyone else suck,....DLC dungeons are $$ content, people pay for it and get content which a casual player usually consider frustration, I wonder how many would click on >>refund<< button if they could.

Dungeons take practice. The DLC and the non-DLC II ones alike.

I remember the first time I did vet Banished Cells (now Banished Cells II). The Maw fight filled the room with fire. It took us several hours to go through the dungeon and we had a good tank and a DPS that was used to running it.

Or the first time I ran vet Spindleclutch (now Spindle II). We spent several hours at the Praxin fight. We were so tired, my friend destroyed her gloves instead of repairing them. We ended up leaving at that boss.

But I had friends who liked doing pledges, so I joined them. And I not only learned the fights, I developed the muscle memory for them, so my reactions were better and I didn't get stuck in odd places anymore.

Consider that the DLC dungeons are not really harder than City of Ash II or Crypt of Hearts II once you have run them half a dozen times.

And consider as well that which dungeon people consider "difficult" will vary. Several people here said they don't like doing Mazzatun because it's hard to finish with a PUG. I have never failed to complete that dungeon with a PUG. Meanwhile, I dislike Imperial City Prison, which someone in a different thread called "the easiest DLC dungeon"

I have a friend who decided several months ago to farm the motifs from the dungeons. He started with Mazzatun, spent a couple of weeks running it in both normal and vet, and then moved on to Cradle, then Scalecaller. When he started, he went in blind and he learned the basics, then someone would teach him something he didn't know yet, like a better spot to tank a boss, or how the mechanics of something really worked. And now they are easy for him, because he has the practice under his belt.

I personally enjoy PUGging dungeons. Of course, when you just want to get your XP as fast as possible, getting Spindleclutch I is great. But if I get a DLC dungeon, I stick to my end of the bargain and we finish it. If I don't know the dungeon very well yet, I will say so, and appreciate any pointers, but I've always been able to complete them, even though I'm not a particularly good player.

So I think that the queue is fine as is. But if people really want to avoid DLC dungeons that much, then maybe @idk 's suggestion to give the "second run" reward to that option would be a good thing. So you can go for the full 100k XP and risk a DLC dungeon, or you can play it safe, but only get 33k XP.

I'd argue that ICP NM < Ruins NM, and the main reason is that you can overheal all the mechanics on ICP normal, but the way that ruins are set up you actually have to know the mechanics and communicate. A group will often wipe if the healer is taken at final boss and no one reveals the statue, especially if a totem is up. ICP Vet > Ruins vet. I think that because it becomes the opposite, it's impossible to overheal/ignore the mechanics in vet ICP and not doing something right is going to be instant death for whoever gets hit by it. That means most groups are actually learning what to do for the first time in ICP vet, and there DPS matters ALOT. In ruins, most people have had some practice with the mechanics doing NM and they need less adjustments to do vet.

Thank you for that perspective. I think in normal ICP, the hardest part is the Flesh Sculptor because that's a fight that takes practice. At Lord Warden, you can ignore the portals when he goes up in the air and just heal through his AoE (which is not possible in Vet).

In Mazzatun, I never had problems in normal at the last boss, but I always ask if people know the mechanics and explain them if not, and people get it. Taking 3-5 minutes to explain things at the beginning usually is enough to get that fight done on the first try.

Hard to say with maz at the end boss. I'll usually explain thunderscale, xal nur, and final boss mechanics, but peple still ignore them.

El_Borracho · October 2018

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

Don't understand why we need dun-finder.

Why not zone chat lfm, lfg dun-name then choose mode 'n/v' before enter and run as much as you can.

Because it works so well for trials...

In all seriousness, Dungeon Finder works okay. It could be improved. But to remove it from the game would be lunacy. Its bad enough you have to hit the Craglorn cattle call for "LF one DPS for [insert trial here]" or sit in a group waiting for it to fill. I couldn't imagine what the zone chat would look like for daily dungeons.