citats wrote: »

Sure decrease the upfront cost, but each time a shield is recasted within 4 seconds of a previous shield cast, increase the cost by 50%. This would put shield spamming on par with dodge roll spamming.

Comments like this show a poor understanding of how these skills actually function to mitigate damage.

Let’s assume that both are dirt cheap to cast, there is no stack cost, and your regen is sufficient to allow you to spam both ward and dodgeroll infinitely.

If you could do that with dodgeroll, you would be nearly immortal. You could roll right through zergs, laugh when out numbered 10 to 1, and escape any time you wanted to.

Now let’s do the same with a shield you can spam infinitiely. Instead of a Zerg, you are simply forced to fight 2 competent opponents. You are dead in 3...2... hopefully you get the point. These abilities aren’t even remotely equal. One scales when outnumbered and the other does not. One is a skill, the other is an inherent game function available to all. Stack cost would be more detrimental to Sorcs than the cast time would have been.

citats wrote: »

Sure decrease the upfront cost, but each time a shield is recasted within 4 seconds of a previous shield cast, increase the cost by 50%. This would put shield spamming on par with dodge roll spamming.

Look sir, nightblade

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

citats wrote: »

Sure decrease the upfront cost, but each time a shield is recasted within 4 seconds of a previous shield cast, increase the cost by 50%. This would put shield spamming on par with dodge roll spamming.

I think you have to look at the definition of "on par" again.

1) Shields mitigate an absolute amount of damage and as such have an upper limit, dodge roll does not
2) Shields require the sacrifice of a bar slot to be able to use them
3) Shields costs cannot be reduced via item traits
4) Shields costs cannot be reduced via the CP system
5) Shields cannot be woven with abilities like light attacks

And before you start "But shields can be increased in the CP system and dodge roll cannot". That's because dodge roll does not need adjustment for the increase in damage caused by the CP system - 100% mitigation is 0 damage taken, no matter if the original damage was 1 or 1,000,000.

I am sure I missed something, but you get the point.

I think I get what you are saying in 5, but what you actually wrote is giving me pause. You can absolutely weave your shields with light attacks (light attacks arent abilities). What you cant do is use your shield to animation cancel ability like you can with dodge roll.

But yes, comparing these two are apples and oranges for sure.

He's missing an important comma. "Shields cannot be woven with abilities, like light attacks" - would make clearer that the light attack portion is its own thing and doesn't belong to the mentioned shields part in this sense. Or even easier: "..., UNLIKE light attacks".
Anyway.


He's right.
Maybe shields shouldn't be weavable with attacks like Force Pulse. But they should ignore GCDs from breaking free. For example, when you get bursted and stunned, and you break free, and a potentially lethal execute (ESPECIALLY Executioner!) comes in:

- if you shield to defense, you suffer the GCD from break free, delaying the shield. The shield itself also takes a second to be considered active by the game. Execution will kill you. For Executioner, you can even see your resource bars drain through your shielded hp bar, as if you got snipe stacked. Because the game prioritizes your enemy's execution, NOT your shield. Fight me if you disagree, I've seen this BS wayyy too often.

- if you dodge after break free, and the execution is dodgable, you'll live. Because you can cancel the break free animation into a dodge, but not a shield. The game will also give your dodge priority: if enemy execution and your dodge were started at exactly the same time, you will always dodge it. Again, fight me if you disagree, but I'm sure you're experienced enough to know, maybe even subconsciously, that it's a dodge after break free that really ensures your survival in a critical situation.


What does that mean?
It means that (shield) mag builds are further forced into using a foreign defense mechanic. Stam builds get a free pass, of course. But mages have to sacrifice even more of their limited resource they already need for break free and roots.
This is not fair. It is faulty design. Why is one primary defense given all those priority advantages, and the other not?

So. In a fair, balanced game, shields would ignore break free GCD and get priority over executions there, like dodge. You would able to cancel an animation with them. Not weave, say FP-shield for attack+defense, but cancel FP or something with a channel/cast time to stop the animation, negate the skill's effect, but immediately apply the shield instead. And of course, shield would be active immediately, not after the second the game considers you to be in casting animation. It is a burst defense, after all, just like dodge.

But I don't dare asking for that, even though I have every right. The pure hate I would receive here from all the Whineblades would probably make me jump in front of a train.

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

citats wrote: »

Sure decrease the upfront cost, but each time a shield is recasted within 4 seconds of a previous shield cast, increase the cost by 50%. This would put shield spamming on par with dodge roll spamming.

I think you have to look at the definition of "on par" again.

1) Shields mitigate an absolute amount of damage and as such have an upper limit, dodge roll does not
2) Shields require the sacrifice of a bar slot to be able to use them
3) Shields costs cannot be reduced via item traits
4) Shields costs cannot be reduced via the CP system
5) Shields cannot be woven with abilities like light attacks

And before you start "But shields can be increased in the CP system and dodge roll cannot". That's because dodge roll does not need adjustment for the increase in damage caused by the CP system - 100% mitigation is 0 damage taken, no matter if the original damage was 1 or 1,000,000.

I am sure I missed something, but you get the point.

I think I get what you are saying in 5, but what you actually wrote is giving me pause. You can absolutely weave your shields with light attacks (light attacks arent abilities). What you cant do is use your shield to animation cancel ability like you can with dodge roll.

But yes, comparing these two are apples and oranges for sure.

He's missing an important comma. "Shields cannot be woven with abilities, like light attacks" - would make clearer that the light attack portion is its own thing and doesn't belong to the mentioned shields part in this sense. Or even easier: "..., UNLIKE light attacks".
Anyway.


He's right.
Maybe shields shouldn't be weavable with attacks like Force Pulse. But they should ignore GCDs from breaking free. For example, when you get bursted and stunned, and you break free, and a potentially lethal execute (ESPECIALLY Executioner!) comes in:

- if you shield to defense, you suffer the GCD from break free, delaying the shield. The shield itself also takes a second to be considered active by the game. Execution will kill you. For Executioner, you can even see your resource bars drain through your shielded hp bar, as if you got snipe stacked. Because the game prioritizes your enemy's execution, NOT your shield. Fight me if you disagree, I've seen this BS wayyy too often.

- if you dodge after break free, and the execution is dodgable, you'll live. Because you can cancel the break free animation into a dodge, but not a shield. The game will also give your dodge priority: if enemy execution and your dodge were started at exactly the same time, you will always dodge it. Again, fight me if you disagree, but I'm sure you're experienced enough to know, maybe even subconsciously, that it's a dodge after break free that really ensures your survival in a critical situation.


What does that mean?
It means that (shield) mag builds are further forced into using a foreign defense mechanic. Stam builds get a free pass, of course. But mages have to sacrifice even more of their limited resource they already need for break free and roots.
This is not fair. It is faulty design. Why is one primary defense given all those priority advantages, and the other not?

So. In a fair, balanced game, shields would ignore break free GCD and get priority over executions there, like dodge. You would able to cancel an animation with them. Not weave, say FP-shield for attack+defense, but cancel FP or something with a channel/cast time to stop the animation, negate the skill's effect, but immediately apply the shield instead. And of course, shield would be active immediately, not after the second the game considers you to be in casting animation. It is a burst defense, after all, just like dodge.

But I don't dare asking for that, even though I have every right. The pure hate I would receive here from all the Whineblades would probably make me jump in front of a train.

It’s funny how you guys assume you’re playing the poor underdog class (most played one lol) who gets an uneven treatment every time without looking at the bigger picture.

1• roll dodge is not a skill. Comparing the two is dumb

2• dodge roll works that way because how different are the survival mechanics. After a burst rolling is the only way to survive as a stamina because most of the time rally is not charged enough and Vigor is a hot. Meanwhile classes that relies on active skills usually have a burst heal or a shield,meaning that they can survive the executioner phase easier.

2• If you’re having so much problem with the GCD try blocking into a shield. Or casting preemptive shields. You know,like every other class preemptive defense....oh wait

1. It's better, even, it doesn't require a skill slot. Or THREE, for shields. Thanks for reminding me, pal!

2. Except shields are down after burst, and then you're oneshot... Because we have no HoTs ticking to save us.

3. You mean, the pre-emptive, self-expiring shields? That won't mitigate with block?

Yeah, you proved my point.

Resistance was placed before the shield comes into play effectively reducing the size of the nerf. Zos also changed the order of where the health cap and battle spirit come into play which significantly reduces the nerf in PvP making this more of a PvE nerf.

So in effect, very doubtful the cost will be reduced.