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Is it Time to Just Eliminate Classes?
Mauzeroth
Soul Shriven
Personally, I'm annoyed with the constant changes every patch... How about we just:
1. Eliminate the classes. Give everyone the same access to all of the skills. No more complaints about ranges, etc. for different skills that don't take into account armor differences. Or about shields, or stuns or any of that and how it affects one group of players.
2. Eliminate duplicate skills. Why bother maintaining skills that do the same thing and are just different text descriptions? Since everyone would have access to anything on a character, no longer needed. No more arguments about which version is better.
3. Merge Stamina/Magicka OR Make All Skills Magicka and Dodge/Block Stamina. No more gripes about Stamina build or Magicka build being better. All the same resource for skills. You choose if you want more health, skills, or dodge/block.
4. Merge Armor Types or Equate Armor Values by Slot. No more need to balance squishy/range versus melee skills. If people still want style differences (as per costumes), then just give all armor pieces of a specific tier the same armor value whether heavy, medium, or light armor.
Sound silly? If there isn't a concrete difference between classes, then why bother? WOW made the same mistake when they started having 4 classes all with the same effective skill/buff but different names and text descriptions/graphics (but you knew they were the same because the buffs didn't stack).
Have multiple characters? Well... you'll still have multiple builds without a need to respec...
Edited by Mauzeroth on October 7, 2018 3:57PM 1. Eliminate the classes. Give everyone the same access to all of the skills. No more complaints about ranges, etc. for different skills that don't take into account armor differences. Or about shields, or stuns or any of that and how it affects one group of players.
2. Eliminate duplicate skills. Why bother maintaining skills that do the same thing and are just different text descriptions? Since everyone would have access to anything on a character, no longer needed. No more arguments about which version is better.
3. Merge Stamina/Magicka OR Make All Skills Magicka and Dodge/Block Stamina. No more gripes about Stamina build or Magicka build being better. All the same resource for skills. You choose if you want more health, skills, or dodge/block.
4. Merge Armor Types or Equate Armor Values by Slot. No more need to balance squishy/range versus melee skills. If people still want style differences (as per costumes), then just give all armor pieces of a specific tier the same armor value whether heavy, medium, or light armor.
Sound silly? If there isn't a concrete difference between classes, then why bother? WOW made the same mistake when they started having 4 classes all with the same effective skill/buff but different names and text descriptions/graphics (but you knew they were the same because the buffs didn't stack).
Have multiple characters? Well... you'll still have multiple builds without a need to respec...
5
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GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only thing this would eliminate is diversity and what lore-friendliness ESO has. The complaints would still roll in. Probably more than before. You're suggesting sudden extreme changes; when what most of the community seems to want are smaller, more sensible, and more insightful tweaks to the game.7 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL no. It would make the game boring and reduce choice in the guise of making people think they have more choice.
So yes, it sounds silly for an MMORPG. Probably a great idea for a more simplistic game.4 -
reprosal✭✭✭✭✭
From a PvE standpoint. There is quite a bit of choice. Is this another PvP will ruin PvE idea? Probably yea.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There is no illusion of choice. Your idea would bring about a very boring game. Nothing more than that.
Not to worry, it will not receive any consideration for that very reason. I can only guess you are new to MMORPGs.
EDIT: and you see this is the common theme in the replies so far.
Edited by idk on October 7, 2018 4:12PM4 -
MauzerothSoul Shriven
Not to worry, it will not receive any consideration for that very reason. I can only guess you are new to MMORPGs.
EDIT: and you see this is the common theme in the replies so far.
*chuckle* No... not new... Just pointed out that fundamentals seem to keep changing and it makes it look like class identities are lackluster. After all, in the single player versions, ESO classes have always been more about common groupings of skills than locked groups of them.
Would it be more boring? Possibly? What I'm really asking for is more attention to what makes each class unique (strengths/weaknesses) when changes are made.
I guess another option would be to allow class change for double cost of a full skill reset. That might stop some of the constant vying for class superiority. Something gets too out of balance or fundamentally changed and we might see signs via an exodus into or out of a specific class.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would reduce the current system where every class has their own meta for Tank, healer, and DD to a system where every role has a meta of a few skills across the board.
Instead of having a mag and stam meta for each class, you would have:
A magTank and a stamTank
A magHealer
A magDD and a stamDD
Everyone would pick the meta skills for their role.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Classes are designed for a reason to take in to account what the classes strengths and weaknesses are and play off those as a whole.
As soon as you open the door for everyone to have every skill you are effectively making balance harder than ever. Not every class has a simple DPS skill line, tank skill line and healer skill line, often times they are mixed and matched because ZOS designed them as a complete package.
Skills would no longer be balanced based on what the class has access to, but every skill would be balanced vs each other (this is a big issue). In a vacuum some skills in the game seem over-powered but in reality they bring the class up to a reasonable level, if you gave the same skill to another class, THEN it may seem actually overpowered.
When balancing skills, you should never treat them 1 vs 1 because of that fact. Look at the entire class.
Then the biggest issue is people will just choose whats the strongest if the skills are too similar. If I could keep the stam sorc style and steal some of nightblades dps skills, why wouldn't I. I'd prefer ZOS to spend their time updating the options on the current system. 3 morphs. 7 skills for a skill line. New phyiscal/magicka weapons, hybrid weapon skill line, more universal skill lines line psijic order. Updated cp system with augment-able perks for existing skills to add new effects.Edited by MashmalloMan on October 7, 2018 7:28PM1 -
raj72616a✭✭✭✭✭The only thing this would eliminate is diversity and what lore-friendliness ESO has. The complaints would still roll in. Probably more than before. You're suggesting sudden extreme changes; when what most of the community seems to want are smaller, more sensible, and more insightful tweaks to the game.
the main games in Elder Scrolls don't really have much class identity anyway, the ones that had classes would let you create custom classes with whatever name and skill set you like.
but then i agree such a change would be too sudden too extreme
and doing away with classes would make the game less noob-friendly (i consider noob-friendliness a good thing)0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only thing this would eliminate is diversity and what lore-friendliness ESO has. The complaints would still roll in. Probably more than before. You're suggesting sudden extreme changes; when what most of the community seems to want are smaller, more sensible, and more insightful tweaks to the game.
Lore does not technically have classes. You always have been a hybrid anyways. What we have as classes are more or less technically a loose organizations that originates from main organizations. Elder Scrolls always have been about mixing magic and physical weapons at the end. Even in Morrowind or Oblivion, you end up being a hybrid anyways as you don't have hard limitations on what you can and cannot learn as spells. However, in case of ESO, eliminating classes might end what little diversity we have because there will always be BiS skills and everyone's bar will look same. I don't think that is diversity.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »The only thing this would eliminate is diversity and what lore-friendliness ESO has. The complaints would still roll in. Probably more than before. You're suggesting sudden extreme changes; when what most of the community seems to want are smaller, more sensible, and more insightful tweaks to the game.
Lore does not technically have classes. You always have been a hybrid anyways. What we have as classes are more or less technically a loose organizations that originates from main organizations. Elder Scrolls always have been about mixing magic and physical weapons at the end. Even in Morrowind or Oblivion, you end up being a hybrid anyways as you don't have hard limitations on what you can and cannot learn as spells. However, in case of ESO, eliminating classes might end what little diversity we have because there will always be BiS skills and everyone's bar will look same. I don't think that is diversity.
There is lore behind every class. How you played your 'hero' in the single player ES games was up to you. You could create your hero as a hybrid or you could create your hero according to lore of a specific class. How you played your hero in the single player games was something that did not become 'cannon' ... it was outside of ES lore - that is why any person playing the single player games could create their hero any way they wanted.
ES games, including this one, are drenched in lore ... all you have to do is look. Bethesda employs a lore master whose sole job is to ensure all content is lore friendly and consistent across all ES games.
The lore plays a pivotal role in all ES games - race, class, regions, history, wars, daedra , Nirn, Daedric Princes, politics, realms, plants, animals, geeze ... everything! This is an mmorpg.
Edited by Maryal on October 8, 2018 4:38AM0 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭there is no illusion of choice. not everything gonna be viable. some of them will be niche and thats players decision to choose.Edited by hakan on October 8, 2018 6:39AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I used to say no, for the sake of build diversity. But due to how poorly balance is managed, I'm all for it now.
If we can't have reasonable class balance, then might as well give everyone access to all class skills. Just let everyone choose 3 class skill lines.Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 8, 2018 6:58AM0 -
DarkPicture✭✭✭✭✭They will not delete classes because it would be stupid and its not a singleplayer only mmo.
You can close the topic.Edited by DarkPicture on October 8, 2018 9:42AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This would require a complete rework of every class skill and passive in the game currently. As Marshall put it, every class is balanced around their own limited kit. Allow people to pick and choose which skill lines they can use, and not only will diversity be thrown out the window, but balance too, as players will have uniform access to insanely broken skill line combinations.
I'm not opposed to this suggestion in itself, but the ramifications for implementing it at this point in the game's lifespan. Something this drastic should have been done way back in the beta phase, not 4 years into the game's lifespan.0
