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Why are MagDKs able to shut down a magblade completely?
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People just like to come and ask everything to be nerfed that seems challenging to them, so their own setup would work against everything with no downsides, but.. how can every player have everyone else nerfed? Trying to get that done is what forum is all about these days though.
The "us vs them" attitude where people laugh on other classes if they get nerfed more badly this time. Same vocal people asking this and that nerfed over and over again while making their own class sound like its some underpowered class that no one plays and needs buffs just because are afraid its getting nerfed too, so gotta keep acting up like own class is in a bad spot. Some people should get Oscar awards for their acting lol.1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kind of how a good magplar can shut down a dk, every class has countersEdited by FloppyTouch on October 8, 2018 9:32AM2 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Kind of how a good magplar can shut down a dk every class has counters
This.
And this is how its supposed to be.
But some always want everything nerfed that works on them. They also want themselves nerfed then too, since their build works on someone too and i bet that someone wants them nerfed in return.
So could everyone just chill down with the nerf demands already?
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IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?
you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?
Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?
@THE_BIG_BOSS try fighting a nb as a werewolf.
Its worse trust me. At least you can see the sob and all your passives work
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭So the only hope you have at beating a mag dk is running a dueling build. If you use necro/spell power cure/1 max mag/1 max mag your will have enough damage to 1 shot the mag dk if he isn't careful with keeping his wings up. This is really the only way to beat a mag dk these days. Running them out of Magicka use to be a strategy but it no longer works because most dks run a staff back bar and slot drain giving them a big sustain boost a lot run harness now as well. With the build I posted or a similar build you will have a big enough shield to stall out the dk as well while you wait for your one shot.
The problem with this is that's a dueling build and it's trash for cyrodiil. If you are building a valid open world build there is no way to constantly kill a dk because you just won't have the damage to one shot. As well as all a magblades melee abilities are weak and expensive Besides ultimates. Mag dk is just a hard counter it's best to just ignore them if you can.
I find it funny people still downplay mag dk. It's been the strongest reliable Magicka class this patch and it will only move farther ahead next patch after the damage shield nerfs. Next patch idk how you are suppose to kill a mag dk as a magblade.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So you're telling me that I need to slot certain skills to counter wings? Wait... Isn't it what NBs are telling you to do against cloak?
Should I say:
"No one should be forced to use "some things" just to counter one skill!". Blah blah blah...
Both skills are fine. Stop calling for nerfs.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
mojomood✭✭✭THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?
you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?
Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?
Concealed weapon
Twisting Path
Lotus fan
Soul Harvest
Dw Heavy attack’s
Fear
Just about half the actual damage moves of a nightblades kit aren’t reflective. You choose to run the stronger setup against every other class and run into your weaknesses. I build for melee and don’t have trouble with most MDK.
It your own fault.
Melee magblade, yes. Of course that heavy attack will barely tickle since it scales on stam. Twisting path is a tickle and ground based. You cant fear them to death. So, to kill a mag dk, a magblade can use concealed and Soul harvest. Not gonna cut it. Cripple is a dot but is more used for the buff...it should not be reflectable.
To the OP...
If you want to play ranged magblade, magdks are tough. You can do it without force pulse, but that helps as you can shade then pulse no weave and kit them around fearing every 6 seconds to drain stam.
To not change your setup, still kite but hit the wings with resto lights. They cant maintain wings every 4 seconds. Still fear every 6 to pressure stam. This should let you keep a AW charged. Use when you're sure the wings are down. Not gonna be a short fight so not easy to 1vX this.
If your a vamp, walk away.0 -
mojomood✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Ya, I know what you mean. I slot Crushing Shock because all my magblade ranged attacks hit me back. I wasn't criticizing; it is what it is. We've been asking for non-reflectable strife for a while.
As a magblade, I would LOVE non reflectable strife. But that would crush magDKs. Make cripple non-reflectable so we can keep them off of us. If they want to remove the snare, they have to cast wings every 2 seconds. That gives magblade pressure and allows counterplay from magDKs and both a means of controlling the fight.0 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People should be able to safely potato anyone and everyone to death from range with no risk to themselves.
Isn't that exactly why 80% of Nightblades picked that class? Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
mojomood✭✭✭same reason stam dk can shut down magsorc completely, they do well in heavy.
burst doesnt do anything if they were you out of resources and pertify dot you to death......
not a big fan of dk's these days.... getting up there with snipe spam builds on my hate list
Fossilize is OP in no CP on mag characters1 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭First to who ever said "is cripple a projectile"... seriously? It's a pretty slow projectile with a clearly visible trail... much easier to see than say swallow soul. At least on my screen.
Secondly... on my destro/resto magblade in general I am less worried about DKs than Templars. I found those much more consistently dangerous. Certain stamDK builds are tougher.
I also have a stamDK and I can say for me, wings are not spamable with my resource pool and 6s is not a long time to consistently keep wings up.
The real problem starts when the fight draws out (as it does, I think I've duked it out with a few DKs for 5 minutes) and a 2nd or more enemies show up. Things go pear shaped fast then.Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD0 -
HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭Couple points from this -
1) yes, magblade can be virtually hard countered by a magDK without proper abilities slotted.
2) everything doesn’t need a nerf, good magblades need to know when/how to initiate and exit a fight.
3) I do think wing uptime with the immovable is pretty tough, and borderline over performing, especially with the new expedition changes.
If you’re encountering a magDK and you’re like me, you can’t do hardly anything with your normal tool kit. If you HAVE to fight them, you need to keep your buffs up to win the resource battle, weave restoration light attacks for your how procs, play extremely defensive. Time out the wings to go down and time your burst, it might not kill them and you’ll be back to square one, this goes back to picking and exiting your fights, magDK is going to know your burst is coming and play defensive, it’s just not a great fight to pick if the magDK is decent. Dance around with cloak, cripples, shadow image, etc. if this isn’t working try immovable potions, escapist poisons (wrecks magDK magicka and gives immov.
Just adapt before screaming nerf. I do think swallow soul shouldn’t be counted as a “projectile” as you’re consuming their soul it doesn’t feel like a projectile. Given the constant nerfs of this ability and the removal of minor vitality I think this should have the same treatment as crushing shock and be unreflectable. Personal opinion.Edited by HEBREWHAMMERRR on October 8, 2018 1:33PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?
you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?
Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?
Concealed weapon
Twisting Path
Lotus fan
Soul Harvest
Dw Heavy attack’s
Fear
Just about half the actual damage moves of a nightblades kit aren’t reflective. You choose to run the stronger setup against every other class and run into your weaknesses. I build for melee and don’t have trouble with most MDK.
It your own fault.
Just lol.
Going melee against a DK with a nightblade is the equivalent to a deathwish.
A melee NB doesn´t come close to be threatening to a properly played DK.
So the real alternative is:
Go for a somewhat vaible ranged build that gets hardcounterend or
go for a nonvaible melee build that loses by default.
Nice "options".<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it this guy who usually yells in ad chat, about players killing him in god mode or some new meta unkillable cheater nb builds, and always using capitals deliberately, despite many requests to not do so? The player's name looks familiar
. PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In all of my hours playing a mag DK and a mag Templar, I’ve seen that mag NB is the least likely to adapt when countered. Every other class and build will work around my wings, or around my Total Dark + defile, but most magblades just keep up their normal rotation and get progressively more pissed off when it kills them.
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche4 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭In all of my hours playing a mag DK and a mag Templar, I’ve seen that mag NB is the least likely to adapt when countered. Every other class and build will work around my wings, or around my Total Dark + defile, but most magblades just keep up their normal rotation and get progressively more pissed off when it kills them.
That's because you don't have the options to counter it. all magblade melee abilities are horrible except for ultimates so your basically have to keep using your range attacks or just light attack spam. That's what magblades are upset about you are basically shut down by any range counter as long as your opponent knows how to play. Then magblades get frustrated because it was really nothing they could do to win the fight or even do damage. Every other class has viable non reflectable abilities2 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?
you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?
Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?
I guess you not the big boss...0 -
HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭Escapist potions..drain the wingspammers mag and time fears so wings drop and cripple them, resto weave your buffs and you will atleast survive a magDK and MAYBE have a burst window. Every class has counters but you can set yourself up to atleast do decent vs them. This is coming from a day one magblade who is vamp, gotta adapt or get packed up by every magDK you see lol.0
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It never ceases to amaze me how sorcs will insist they are "shut down" by wings when there are only 2 reflectable sorc skills.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You mean like this comment on the front page of the thread?THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?
you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?
Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?
try fighting one on as a sorc as well! mgk dks counter two classes directly pretty much guaranteeing them a win in every fight.
im glad someone else is fair minded
There you go, a sorc complaining that magDKs are guaranteed a win against sorcs.Edited by VaranisArano on October 8, 2018 8:56PM2 -
HiLyfe808✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano meh! as a sorc magDK or DK in general are fine. Just basically saying which I should’ve been more specific is don’t clump is in a group of Sorcs. I for one am not on the nerf happy trend.
Edited by HiLyfe808 on October 8, 2018 9:48PM1 -
THE_BIG_BOSS✭✭✭✭✭Nerfmire Made IT even worse magblade vs magdk is a free kill right now...or Run for your life0
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Metafae✭✭✭✭✭Because MagDK's are supposed to counter the magblade range build.
You're supposed to avoid them, not try take them on and get angry for failing.
Every build has a weakness, you either build yourself to take on that weakness, or you avoid it.1 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭Because MagDK's are supposed to counter the magblade range build.
You're supposed to avoid them, not try take them on and get angry for failing.
Every build has a weakness, you either build yourself to take on that weakness, or you avoid it.
sounds so easy when u say it but.... magblade doesnt have the right tools to counter that. there is nothing in the build like for example templar eclipse1
