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Spin2win Spam in BGs needs to Stop
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
I fail to see the logic here?
Stay away from your ennemy and make a move when it is relevant or strategic or kill ennemies before reaching for objective.
It does make sense that melee build hit harder when in melee range, as they cannot attack you the rest of the time
I don’t think you understand land capture BG modes. If I get steamrolled by spin-to-win heavy armour stam classes while I’m on a flag with my team, moving away from the flag (esp. if my teammates are also range mag classes) results in the opposing melee team gaining points. Heavy armour NBs often move in stealth until they’re right on the flag, or they cloak up if you try to hit them before they reach the flag. Stamdens have their Shimmering Shield to counter ranged attacks, and stam DKs have wings.
Saying “just fight at range” basically relegates mag classes to DM and nothing else, because most of the other BG modes force you into melee range.
Let one or two allies fight while you and the other attack two separate flags.
Staying together as one group in Domination or crazy king is how you lose.
Only Deathmatch do you want to be with your allies
I know how to play Land Grabs. I regularly score 4-5k on my healtank Templar and am usually number one in the match. When I checked last night, I was within the top ten on the PS4 NA leaderboards. The problem, when Murkmire goes live, is that my sorc will just get obliterated when I get anything other than DMs in the random daily. When you capture flags solo, they take longer to flip — as soon as you’re found by stam ST spammers after Murkmire, it’s game over. If you’re on a flag with a tankier teammate, you’ll still die to steel tornado spam, unless that teammate can heal. I’m fortunate that I have other classes I can play. Not everyone has multiple PVP-ready classes.
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Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
I fail to see the logic here?
Stay away from your ennemy and make a move when it is relevant or strategic or kill ennemies before reaching for objective.
It does make sense that melee build hit harder when in melee range, as they cannot attack you the rest of the time
I don’t think you understand land capture BG modes. If I get steamrolled by spin-to-win heavy armour stam classes while I’m on a flag with my team, moving away from the flag (esp. if my teammates are also range mag classes) results in the opposing melee team gaining points. Heavy armour NBs often move in stealth until they’re right on the flag, or they cloak up if you try to hit them before they reach the flag. Stamdens have their Shimmering Shield to counter ranged attacks, and stam DKs have wings.
Saying “just fight at range” basically relegates mag classes to DM and nothing else, because most of the other BG modes force you into melee range.
Yes you need to be in melee range at some point and it is a good thing...
As range you have some advantages and weaknesses and need to use it at your advantage but staying in melee range during execute phase is not a clever move. You need to disengage and reengage, lile everybody
There really is no such thing as ranged vs melee in BGs with spammable gap closers and high movement speeds.0 -
DeadlyPhoenix✭✭✭✭✭It's always funny to see people who ask for nerfs one week, turn around the next week and tell people to stop whining for nerfs.
As if they weren't just full blown arguing over why said skill/class needs to be nerfed and now that their skill/class is targeted it's suddenly time to stop crying nerf....
Get used to it. This game is full of cry babies who chase meta and devs with no common sense or knowledge of how their game actually plays.
Want this game to be balanced? Stop giving them your money.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are making a very wrong assumption that just because YOU get killed by Steel Tornado, no one else can counter it.
I’m talking about when Murkmire goes live... Right now, pre-shield nerf, I can survive.
Adapt. Shield is not particularly changed in raw-size for PvP. It will just be capped at 10k instead of 11k,12k or certain builds. The main change is Crit. Maybe add some resistances, like every other class instead of going all glass cannon. If you want to stay full glass cannon and expect to survive, then your mindset is your issue.
Right, my mindset is the issue. When a magsorc can do as much damage as a stamden or a stamnb in heavy armour, perhaps then I’ll take your “adapt” dismissal to heart. Magicka builds lose more damage than stamina builds do when they go five heavy for more phys resistance. My magsorc already wears five impen in BGs on live (5 light armour) because shields are weaker without CP and it’s not always possible to spam them. I’ve recently been trying out a heavy Innate Axiom/Spinners build on my sorc on live to “adapt” and it is nowhere NEAR as powerful as my stamden in Ravager and Shacklebreaker.
Edited by Aurielle on October 6, 2018 4:17PM0 -
ConeOfSilence✭✭✭✭Instead of learning to counter how about just jumping on the forum and QQ for a nerf. Haven't you nerf ppl ruined PvE builds enough for one month, give it a rest already and LtP.5 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If these nerf calls don't end, I swear I will stop buying crowns and start eating kittens.
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JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Steel Tornado is crappy UNLESS you are just about dead. It’s an execute. It’s a high COST stamina ability that just doesn’t hit that hard UNLESS you are in execute range.
It doesn’t need a nerf. Stay out of execute range. I run DW Destro on my MagDk and USED to slot resources poisons until I realized I just didn’t need them. Wardens run. Poor 2H StamDK’s run or get packed up QUICK. Though...they call it line of sighting. Hehehehe.
Speed pot sorcs stand a much better chance but not much. If you’re having troubles with Stam melee I used to recommend resources poisons; but now i don’t (despite the coming NERF of them). You don’t really need them. Build to be able to fight at range or melee...wherever the nerds happen to be.
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »Spamming one Button and winning the Match...so braindead
So is whining for nerfs, instead of using your brain to adapt and conquer
The problem is in many cases adapting means just folliwing trend of some brainless spam. Killing people in BG is so much easier for my stamplar when i started to brainlesly spam steel tornado over using jabs it's not even funny...0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
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Thrain✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »If these nerf calls don't end, I swear I will stop buying crowns and start eating kittens.
I hope Eric Wrobel dont have a cat otherwise your class is going to be deleted from this game in an future patch
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Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »If these nerf calls don't end, I swear I will stop buying crowns and start eating kittens.
I hope Eric Wrobel dont have a cat otherwise your class is going to be deleted from this game in an future patch
I play a warden. /lie 0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
I wreck everything on my magblade. I can't use cloak on Flags, Relic capture, Chaosball. Do you hear me complain? If you can't fight melee opponents, that 100% on you.
You probably fear your melee opponents though, don’t you?
I don’t. I’ve never had a problem packing up melee opponents on my magade, but from your posts in this thread, it sounds like you do. Learn to play.
I know how to play. I don’t currently have a problem with spin to win melee builds, because I can use my shields. After Murkmire? Yeah, it’ll be a problem.
You can't take everything out of the game because shields took a hit.
Heck the soft evasion and expedition changes affect stam players as bad.
at this point in the game might as well. nerf everything!0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭ConeOfSilence wrote: »Instead of learning to counter how about just jumping on the forum and QQ for a nerf. Haven't you nerf ppl ruined PvE builds enough for one month, give it a rest already and LtP.
Nobody really uses steel tornado in pve anyway.0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....Edited by Kel on October 6, 2018 9:36PM2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Let’s see some videos of sorcs killing stam classes during land grabs from range if it’s so ubiquitous. When I’m on my DK, I stand on flags and just reflect most magsorc skills. When I’m on my Templar healtank, I stand on flags and just absorb ranged magsorc attacks with Absorb Magic and/or spam heals. When I’m on my stamden, I just spam Shimmering Shield and shrooms when magsorcs try to attack me from range. When I die to a magsorc on a stam build, it’s usually because I made a stupid mistake or was grossly outnumbered and the sorc spammed Wrath when someone else got me into execute range.
It’s a lot harder to kill tanky stam builds at a distance when they’re actively defending a static point than it is to kill those same builds in the chaos of a Deathmatch. If you disagree, then your anti-sorc bias is showing.
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I was in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
Edit: Here you go, @jabrone77 , from back when I only played a (since deleted) stam sorc in BGs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5242210/#Comment_5242210
Care to put some more words in my mouth?
Edited by Aurielle on October 6, 2018 9:54PM0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When I die to things like Steel Tornado I just swap to bow and do the same crap from a distance. Sometimes all you can do is play the game.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I wa in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
I mean, I would get mad about rune cage, but my friend who I was on a team with was using it too. We would practice duel so I could get the hang of breaking free. I never knew to dodge roll out and thats why it would kill me. Steel tornado is undodgeable and an execute so its tricky when you're on a slow toon so I just cast magma shell, fosselize etc. I think more people need to duel with a friend to really practice counters because otherwise, you will die. Thats my outlook on it.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I wa in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
I mean, I would get mad about rune cage, but my friend who I was on a team with was using it too. We would practice duel so I could get the hang of breaking free. I never knew to dodge roll out and thats why it would kill me. Steel tornado is undodgeable and an execute so its tricky when you're on a slow toon so I just cast magma shell, fosselize etc. I think more people need to duel with a friend to really practice counters because otherwise, you will die. Thats my outlook on it.
Rune Cage was 100% broken when it could lock you down for a small eternity. It was also bugged, in that you could have a full stam bar and be unable to get out of it. Rune Cage is in a much better place now. I don't disagree that it's helpful to practice with buddies, but IMO, the best practice is to play ALL classes. It gives you a much better sense of what your opponents can and can't do, and whether certain skills are in fact overperforming (or if it just seems that way because you don't use said skills).Edited by Aurielle on October 6, 2018 10:10PM1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I was in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
Edit: Here you go, @jabrone77 , from back when I only played a (since deleted) stam sorc in BGs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5242210/#Comment_5242210
Care to put some more words in my mouth?
First, I'll apologize for putting words in your mouth. I am sorry. I must be mixing you up with someone else.
Still, unless you play stam sorc, getting in melee range is suicidal. No other magicka class outside of a sorc would dare, and now sorc shields are all but toast, mag sorcs better not either.
That still doesn't mean a nerf to melee abilities is warrented.
And here...your asked for video. Much more where this comes from, just youtube them...
https://youtu.be/_hNvIMzIwu4 1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I was in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
Edit: Here you go, @jabrone77 , from back when I only played a (since deleted) stam sorc in BGs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5242210/#Comment_5242210
Care to put some more words in my mouth?
First, I'll apologize for putting words in your mouth. I am sorry. I must be mixing you up with someone else.
Still, unless you play stam sorc, getting in melee range is suicidal. No other magicka class outside of a sorc would dare, and now sorc shields are all but toast, mag sorcs better not either.
That still doesn't mean a nerf to melee abilities is warrented.
And here...your asked for video. Much more where this comes from, just youtube them...https://youtu.be/_hNvIMzIwu4
Apology accepted. I'm not that bad, you know.
I see plenty of instances in the video you linked of the sorc who's recording the video hurting while in melee range... Also, the sorc in that video isn't that great and is obviously in a low MMR match. Four kills, 264k damage (that's what I typically get on my healtank...), and a score of 250. Granted, they're playing Capture the Relic, which has incredibly flawed scoring. I can guarantee you, though, if that particular sorc went up against a mid-high MMR group of stam classes, they'd be obliterated.
Anyway, there are absolutely certain game modes where ranged classes really do have no choice but to go into melee range. If you don't go into melee range in Land Grab matches like Crazy King and Domination, you simply do not earn any points -- if you do earn points without going into melee range of another player, it's because you took a flag solo with no other players around.
Edited by Aurielle on October 6, 2018 10:44PM0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
Kill at range, move into capture flag/relic.
Not that hard to figure out, honestly.
You run up on a melee charater then complain about getting hit by melee abilities? Ok...gotcha...
You know what the spin to winners run on their back bars, right? I move into range, they’ll spam Lethal Arrow on me while sitting on the flag and gaining all the points.
You do not win Land Grab matches by playing at range. They are melee brawls, and without reliable defences, Steel Tornado will kill you every time.
You are either terrible in battlegrounds or terrible at sorc. Perhaps both.
Sorcs are all about ranged burst, yet you're here talking about Lethal Arrow now?
Steel tornado is the least of your problems.
You yourself are saying "I shouldn't play anything but death match, huh?" while at the same time saying you can't play ranged in anything but deathmatch?
What one is it? In your effort for "*** for tat" you are contradicting yourself.
I hold my own. I’m not amazing on sorc, but I’m also nowhere remotely near “terrible.” In land grab games you are FORCED INTO MELEE RANGE if you want to earn points. In deathmatch, you can fight from range easily as you can use LOS to your advantage. In land grab modes, you can’t use LOS to the anywhere near the same extent and still earn points. Every BG mode outside of Deathmatch favours stamina/melee gameplay. If you can’t see that, then you’re extremely biased.
Funny. In land grab bg's I always see sorcs killing from range, then getting close to flags for points, not just rushing into melee range instantly.
Guess they are all doing it wrong....
Edit to add: When rune cage was a hot topic and I suggested a comprise of having it as a close range cc, you and other players screamed at me that sorc is a ranged class. "Why would sorcs ever be in melee range? We are a ranged class!"
I just find your new point of view ironic....
LMAO, I never personally screamed at you about Rune Cage. In fact, I was in FULL AGREEMENT with the Rune Cage nerf threads because IT WAS HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.
Edit: Here you go, @jabrone77 , from back when I only played a (since deleted) stam sorc in BGs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5242210/#Comment_5242210
Care to put some more words in my mouth?
Still, unless you play stam sorc, getting in melee range is suicidal. No other magicka class outside of a sorc would dare, and now sorc shields are all but toast, mag sorcs better not either.
Also...
Here's my magicka Templar getting into melee range and tanking quite easily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5lACPqzSBk
I'm able to do this because Templars have excellent defensive abilities and burst healing. Even if I were to throw the same gear on my magsorc, I would not be able to do this after the shield nerf. I'm still vulnerable to spin-to-win builds on my Templar on live, but not even remotely to the extent that my magsorc will be when shields are nerfed to oblivion. Shields are magsorc's primary means of defense, and this is why Steel Tornado will be particularly deadly when shields can not only be critted, but will also be subject to a health-based cap.
Magsorcs will basically be relegated to Deathmatch. As I've been saying all along in this thread.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Stay out of execute range and you needn’t worry about steel tornado.
Great idea! I’ll just stack my shields and...
Oh, wait.
If you are in melee range, you deserve to be hammered with melee skills. Simple as that. How you deal with that is your problem.
So again, I shouldn’t expect to play my sorc in anything other than Deathmatch. No land capture BGs whatsoever. Gotcha.
I fail to see the logic here?
Stay away from your ennemy and make a move when it is relevant or strategic or kill ennemies before reaching for objective.
It does make sense that melee build hit harder when in melee range, as they cannot attack you the rest of the time
I don’t think you understand land capture BG modes. If I get steamrolled by spin-to-win heavy armour stam classes while I’m on a flag with my team, moving away from the flag (esp. if my teammates are also range mag classes) results in the opposing melee team gaining points. Heavy armour NBs often move in stealth until they’re right on the flag, or they cloak up if you try to hit them before they reach the flag. Stamdens have their Shimmering Shield to counter ranged attacks, and stam DKs have wings.
Saying “just fight at range” basically relegates mag classes to DM and nothing else, because most of the other BG modes force you into melee range.
Let one or two allies fight while you and the other attack two separate flags.
Staying together as one group in Domination or crazy king is how you lose.
Only Deathmatch do you want to be with your allies
I know how to play Land Grabs. I regularly score 4-5k on my healtank Templar and am usually number one in the match. When I checked last night, I was within the top ten on the PS4 NA leaderboards. The problem, when Murkmire goes live, is that my sorc will just get obliterated when I get anything other than DMs in the random daily. When you capture flags solo, they take longer to flip — as soon as you’re found by stam ST spammers after Murkmire, it’s game over. If you’re on a flag with a tankier teammate, you’ll still die to steel tornado spam, unless that teammate can heal. I’m fortunate that I have other classes I can play. Not everyone has multiple PVP-ready classes.
I'm not disputing your analysis of mag sorc. What I'm saying is; that if in murkmire you are running a mag Sorc in land grab and you see enemies coming - the only play is to run away to a new flag.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the only counter move lol.
I've already set up my mag sorc for PvE; I see no reason to not run a Stam build in murkmire.
If I say exactly how I feel about some of the changes I'll get in trouble; so I'm trying to stay constructive 1 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭I understand where OP is coming from, but I dont think its a Steel Tornado problem, its rather a shield problem.
Unfortunately it was badly balanced and overnerfed, people trying talking sense into ZOS to no avail. Time to either play only DM or shelve shield stacking magsorcs until the nerfs are toned down (if they will be toned down at all).
When they see people avoiding playing magsorc on BG's they'll maybe do something. Maybe some class rep will make a note out of that
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BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Nobody really uses steel tornado in pve anyway.
Pffft, Steel Tornado can be devestating in PVE. Sure I give up some on the Xmillion Boss single target burn down phase, but in a lot of trials, 4-man dungenons and overland a caltrips, hail, shalks, spin literally clears entire rooms in seconds. I also run Sellistrix. With all the AOE ticking you ALWAYS get mass stuns to everything in the room. By the time you are Spinning you are getting Spin Execution bonus + <25% health DW passive damage bonus + Stunned/Disoriented/... DW passive damage bonus on those Spins. That is 3 levels of damage stacking on that Spin on targets Shalked with Major Fracture and probably all lying there still stunned!!! Everything in the room just melts.
Part of the problem is the incredible ignorance of some of the trial guilds with their narrow focus on 40K+ single targe only, stack on xxx and heal spam builds and tactics. They just can't see any varietal with new trial team and 4-man setups it just makes you want to pound your head on the desk.
In random pug 4-mans you can bet that the other DPS is built for single target cause lemmings and meta. I focused my build on "melt" all Adds en mass, and you can still burst drop 30-40K DPS on the Boss. Steel Tornado when setup correctly build and combo-wise is a total room melter in PVE.
Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on October 7, 2018 12:10AM2 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Nobody really uses steel tornado in pve anyway.
Pffft, Steel Tornado can be devestating in PVE. Sure I give up some on the Xmillion Boss single target burn down phase, but in a lot of trials, 4-man dungenons and overland a caltrips, hail, shalks, spin literally clears entire rooms in seconds. I also run Sellistrix. With all the AOE ticking you ALWAYS get mass stuns to everything in the room. By the time you are Spinning you are getting Spin Execution bonus + <25% health DW passive damage bonus + Stunned/Disoriented/... DW passive damage bonus on those Spins. That is 3 levels of damage stacking on that Spin on targets Shalked with Major Fracture and probably all lying there still stunned!!! Everything in the room just melts.
Part of the problem is the incredible ignorance of some of the trial guilds with their narrow focus on 40K+ single targe only, stack on xxx and heal spam builds and tactics. They just can't see any varietal with new trial team and 4-man setups it just makes you want to pound your head on the desk.
In random pug 4-mans you can bet that the other DPS is built for single target cause lemmings and meta. I focused my build on "melt" all Adds en mass, and you can still burst drop 30-40K DPS on the Boss. Steel Tornado when setup correctly build and combo-wise is a total room melter in PVE.
Agreed. If you sit and spam it you're gonna waste your Stamina, but used in Execute it's great and it wrecks annoying mobs np.0