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Sorc deservers DPS boost, not survivability nerf
IIuvatar
✭
Im MagSorc main with 1462h of gameplay and I think ZOS should pump up our PVE damage, not nerf our shield. I can reach up to 38k DPS, Alcast (with a build modified special for testing skeleton) can reach 41k DPS, but these values are not even close to what a skilled MagBlade can achieve. I have guildmates with 50-60k DPS while any MagSorc can reach 45k DPS at best. Sorc only advantage was survivability and thus more DPS uptime, but now ZOS took our shield from us making Sorc literally the worst class there is without any advantages.
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think ZOS is trying to reel in the damage creep, not extend it. So it's not likely the Sorcerer is going to see a massive increase in DPS from balance passes.
Nightblade isn't going to be dominant forever, at some point they're going to reel its power back in.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
IIuvatar✭I think ZOS is trying to reel in the damage creep, not extend it. So it's not likely the Sorcerer is going to see a massive increase in DPS from balance passes.
Nightblade isn't going to be dominant forever, at some point they're going to reel its power back in.
I wasnt saying "sorcs will", but "sorcs should". Now as it is Im not going back to ESO untill they make sorc stronger and worth playing.Edited by IIuvatar on October 4, 2018 10:11AM3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.13 -
Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Sustain@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS6 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think ZOS is trying to reel in the damage creep, not extend it. So it's not likely the Sorcerer is going to see a massive increase in DPS from balance passes.
Nightblade isn't going to be dominant forever, at some point they're going to reel its power back in.
I believe they got it wrong (yeah i know i should suck it up but you know...) they introduce power creep with better gear every dlc... it is a thing they would not stop doing as it is good for their business.
But they should deal with it instead of gutting classes. Make new harder content and let us be stronger with every update. Maybe tone down the gear dps boost we get with every update.1 -
Zeromaz✭✭✭✭
In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
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grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
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In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
huh?8 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
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In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
How are sorcs over performing? We don't have the highest dps. We aren't the best healers. We are among the worst tanks. In PvP (mag sorc) damage is very telegraphed and predictable and shields are the worst scaling defense when attacked by multiple enemies. Our mobility is average as many Stam builds can sprint faster than we can streak and streak doesn't put us out of gap closer range. Also, we have no snare removal in our toolkit. Our burst heal is tied to an easily killed summon and our sustain skill has a cast time and can be interrupted.PC/EU DC21 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
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In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
How is sorc over performing? I've seen enough presumptuous quibble on this forum to last me a lifetime.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.8 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think ZOS is trying to reel in the damage creep, not extend it. So it's not likely the Sorcerer is going to see a massive increase in DPS from balance passes.
Nightblade isn't going to be dominant forever, at some point they're going to reel its power back in.
buffing everyone's light attacks was a great ideaFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info2 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Sorcs are interesting in the sense that they (apparently) have one of the lowest dps ceilings...and probably the highest dps floor.
Their playstyle is more reminiscent of other MMO dps classes, with a lot of hard hitting abilities and procs, mixed with some easy-to-use aoe. So newer players / casuals do very well with them compared to other classes and their not-so-obvious dps setups.
When I made my sorc, I pretty much figured out how to dps without having to look up guides on it (unlike the other classes). Of course the guide suggested some things I wasn't doing, but it was pretty close. Sorc dps is very intuitive. It's been a few months, but I also parsed the highest with my sorc the last time I used it.
Does sorc need a buff? Especially with these shield changes looming over it (that I'm still hoping get reversed), yes it absolutely does. But a straight damage buff might not be for the best simply because of that high dps floor. The class reps advocated better sustain in their last meeting, and I agree with that. Also, buffing survivability in a way that actually allows them to do mechanics again would be nice...1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Umm <Non-pet sorc>
I want a sustain buff first.
That's the issue. Effectively a sustain buff is a damage buff, but it's impossible to know how much. If sorcs could infinitely sustain like a NB, then the DPS gap would certainly close. I dont think it would be eliminated, but it would be smaller. Thing is, your correct that the sustain buff needs to happen first. How do you possibly plan to balance DPS among two classes when their ability to execute a sustained damage rotation is not equal. It's an impossible task.
We need sustain tools so all classes can sustain a 6 million health dummy while making similar sacrifices. Right now the sacrifice a NB needs to make is to cast siphoning strikes 2-3 times while in combat. Every other class has to do more. I would prefer to not lower the ceiling, but rather, raise the floor on this issue. Currently NB is on the freaking roof. Haha5 -
Zeromaz✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »
In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
How is sorc over performing? I've seen enough presumptuous quibble on this forum to last me a lifetime.
I’m not even going to touch this. Someone with your mindset won’t budge no matter what i say. If you are blind to the fact that their burst window is insanely good, all while being able to play defensive at the same time they are offensive.... then i’ll leave you in your own little world0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »We need sustain tools so all classes can sustain a 6 million health dummy while making similar sacrifices.
We have a sustain ability. Its just nobody really uses it in PvE since it has a cast time, and is rather clunky to use. Balance/spell symmetry just comes out better than our class option. Both are still not ideal. Its also getting nerfed next patch because of PvP balance. A simple swap to make it either over time and instant cast would do wonders imo.Edited by karekiz on October 4, 2018 5:02PM0 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Im MagSorc main with 1462h of gameplay and I think ZOS should pump up our PVE damage, not nerf our shield. I can reach up to 38k DPS, Alcast (with a build modified special for testing skeleton) can reach 41k DPS, but these values are not even close to what a skilled MagBlade can achieve. I have guildmates with 50-60k DPS while any MagSorc can reach 45k DPS at best. Sorc only advantage was survivability and thus more DPS uptime, but now ZOS took our shield from us making Sorc literally the worst class there is without any advantages.
He posted this discussion for the lolz???
Your damage is beyond fine.1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
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In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
Just because you managed to die to a nerfed Rune Cage in PvP, does not mean magsorcs over performed in PvE. In any effing way.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO8 -
adeptusminor✭✭✭✭Im MagSorc main with 1462h of gameplay and I think ZOS should pump up our PVE damage, not nerf our shield. I can reach up to 38k DPS, Alcast (with a build modified special for testing skeleton) can reach 41k DPS, but these values are not even close to what a skilled MagBlade can achieve. I have guildmates with 50-60k DPS while any MagSorc can reach 45k DPS at best. Sorc only advantage was survivability and thus more DPS uptime, but now ZOS took our shield from us making Sorc literally the worst class there is without any advantages.
A good sorc will dummy parse closer to 50k than to 45k. You do realize the reason why nightblades parse higher on a dummy is because of their minor slayer right? Don't pay too much attention to solo dummy parses between classes, they can't be compared when different classes have different self-buffs that get evened out in an actual raid environment.
edit: A guildmates self-buffed magsorc parse
Edited by adeptusminor on October 4, 2018 5:57PM0 -
Camb0Sl1ce✭✭✭I can parse just shy of 48k on no pet sorc on a 3 mil, and by the end im scraping the bottom of my magicka pool. If anything we really need some help with sustain.3
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »Im MagSorc main with 1462h of gameplay and I think ZOS should pump up our PVE damage, not nerf our shield. I can reach up to 38k DPS, Alcast (with a build modified special for testing skeleton) can reach 41k DPS, but these values are not even close to what a skilled MagBlade can achieve. I have guildmates with 50-60k DPS while any MagSorc can reach 45k DPS at best. Sorc only advantage was survivability and thus more DPS uptime, but now ZOS took our shield from us making Sorc literally the worst class there is without any advantages.
A good sorc will dummy parse closer to 50k than to 45k. You do realize the reason why nightblades parse higher on a dummy is because of their minor slayer right? Don't pay too much attention to solo dummy parses between classes, they can't be compared when different classes have different self-buffs that get evened out in an actual raid environment.
edit: A guildmates self-buffed magsorc parse
Absolutely, you need to pay attention to what buffs are active when comparing parses among classes. It's one of the reasons people like Liko that have shown a lot of high end testing on youtube have a support role to provide some of these buffs. It is a bit annoying for anyone not named NB that you realize that usually these support players are simply trying to give them all the buffs inherent to the NB class, but that is a bit of a different issue. Assuming you equalize the buffs, the gap between parses shrinks.
That said, look at that parse. Effective drain is (1623-1374) 249 magic a second. His max pool is 38598 in a 125 second parse. He basically had another 30 seconds and he would have been spent. Now certainly a group will help your sustain, but I think most would say that drain is a bit too high for actual content. He wasnt tapped at the end of that parse, but he was close.3 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭
Pet sorc parsing FTW. (also self buffed). With this build I can actually parse a 25 million health dummy without running out of magicka as well.
Edit: I agree though, we could use some more damage. I'd also like to mention that I can pull the same DPS with the thief, I just like using the lover for vMA and parsing.Edited by codestripper on October 4, 2018 6:47PMSince everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Camb0Sl1ce wrote: »I can parse just shy of 48k on no pet sorc on a 3 mil, and by the end im scraping the bottom of my magicka pool. If anything we really need some help with sustain.Camb0Sl1ce wrote: »I can parse just shy of 48k on no pet sorc on a 3 mil, and by the end im scraping the bottom of my magicka pool. If anything we really need some help with sustain.
Did it twice for this. Agreed.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »
In what world do you believe you’re entitled to a buff after a nerf to bring something in line with the rest of us?
Essentially, you expect your over performing class to get a nerf in one department, and to again, be buffed to over perform in another.
How is sorc over performing? I've seen enough presumptuous quibble on this forum to last me a lifetime.
I’m not even going to touch this. Someone with your mindset won’t budge no matter what i say. If you are blind to the fact that their burst window is insanely good, all while being able to play defensive at the same time they are offensive.... then i’ll leave you in your own little world
You have at max 5 (more like 4) seconds so not sure I would say the burst window is insanely good. Its also very telegraphed. It requires Master Reach spam for CC. Not sure I follow. It seems like your mindset wont change no matter what is common knowledge.
Sorcs are pug killers. Well known fact. Thank you for continuing to prove that.Edited by grannas211 on October 4, 2018 7:00PM6 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's not even debatable at this point that non-pet magsorcs need serious help in damage and sustain in PvE. It's just a fact and the end-game PvE meta reflects this.
Can we all just ignore that one obvious troll please? They obviously have never set a foot in a vet trial before.2 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs do get a DPS buff... About 1% buff if even that (frags are back at 20% bonus on PTS).0 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭Yes! I've had MagDKs with the same build out as my MagSorc, do at least 10K to 15K more DPS with a casual rotation. My instincts tell me ZOS wants MagSorcs to remain strictly support DPS.1
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adeptusminor✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »adeptusminor wrote: »Im MagSorc main with 1462h of gameplay and I think ZOS should pump up our PVE damage, not nerf our shield. I can reach up to 38k DPS, Alcast (with a build modified special for testing skeleton) can reach 41k DPS, but these values are not even close to what a skilled MagBlade can achieve. I have guildmates with 50-60k DPS while any MagSorc can reach 45k DPS at best. Sorc only advantage was survivability and thus more DPS uptime, but now ZOS took our shield from us making Sorc literally the worst class there is without any advantages.
A good sorc will dummy parse closer to 50k than to 45k. You do realize the reason why nightblades parse higher on a dummy is because of their minor slayer right? Don't pay too much attention to solo dummy parses between classes, they can't be compared when different classes have different self-buffs that get evened out in an actual raid environment.
edit: A guildmates self-buffed magsorc parse
Absolutely, you need to pay attention to what buffs are active when comparing parses among classes. It's one of the reasons people like Liko that have shown a lot of high end testing on youtube have a support role to provide some of these buffs. It is a bit annoying for anyone not named NB that you realize that usually these support players are simply trying to give them all the buffs inherent to the NB class, but that is a bit of a different issue. Assuming you equalize the buffs, the gap between parses shrinks.
That said, look at that parse. Effective drain is (1623-1374) 249 magic a second. His max pool is 38598 in a 125 second parse. He basically had another 30 seconds and he would have been spent. Now certainly a group will help your sustain, but I think most would say that drain is a bit too high for actual content. He wasnt tapped at the end of that parse, but he was close.
I agree that sorcs would benefit from better sustain, similar to that of nightblades. Actually, I think a majority of people would prefer that classes don't struggle with sustain and was on even footing with nightblades in that regard, so of course ZOS decides to nerf nightblades' sustain instead smh lolEdited by adeptusminor on October 5, 2018 12:26AM2 -
Eyesinthedrk✭✭✭✭✭Just revert to pre morrowind cp with 25% max recovery and 25% max cost reduction. Every class will be competitive again, and everyone in PVE will be happy.4
