Encumbrance, is it time to have this in game?

Dreyloch · October 2018

I was reading a couple other threads about the speed changes which many (including myself) don't really like. So is it time for the game to maybe introduce encumbrance/speed penalties depending on which armor type your wearing?(Having nothing to do with what your carrying in inv. Lets be straight about that ) Light would be fastest and heavy the slowest. It would have to work in a way where adding speed buffs creates diminishing returns dependent on what armor your wearing, leading to a cap or sorts where everyone is relatively the same. Let's say within 10% of each other? There would still be a very slight advantage for someone in light, but nothing as it's compared to on live now with medium armor where skills become useless because they can't hit as the target moves well out of range =/ (uppercut comes to mind)

This could even be something strictly for PvP coded into battle spirit. Because let's face it, nerfing all speed the way ZoS is now, is really hurting the experience all around. When your nerfing a class skill (warden's swift) to compensate for introducing such speed into the game? Something is horribly wrong. Thoughts?.....

Liofa · October 2018

Time to farm Havel's Ring...

SilverIce58 · October 2018

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Feanor · October 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Who is really using a build dedicated to speed other than farming resources (where the armor weight is irrelevant) in PvE?

SilverIce58 · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Who is really using a build dedicated to speed other than farming resources (where the armor weight is irrelevant) in PvE?

I didn't read the whole thing, but i assumed that it would make heavy armor weigh more and slow you down.

Nestor · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Who is really using a build dedicated to speed other than farming resources (where the armor weight is irrelevant) in PvE?

Tanks that have to chase down bosses who ignore Taunt

Feanor · October 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Who is really using a build dedicated to speed other than farming resources (where the armor weight is irrelevant) in PvE?

Tanks that have to chase down bosses who ignore Taunt

So you’re wearing Fjords and 3x Swift along with 2H on your tank?

Dreyloch · October 2018

Maybe I should have prefaced this with more towards a PVP situation. Where speed for PvE would be largely unaffected.

Because we know this is why ZoS is trying to make these changes in the first place.

Elwendryll · October 2018

I have a better idea. Armors shouldn't come with any malus, so just nerf all the mobility skills, and then give a different mobility buff to each armor weight.

Nestor · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Just as long as you keep it in pvp, we'll be cool.

Who is really using a build dedicated to speed other than farming resources (where the armor weight is irrelevant) in PvE?

Tanks that have to chase down bosses who ignore Taunt

So you’re wearing Fjords and 3x Swift along with 2H on your tank?

No.

I am just not being slowed down by my armor.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

I like this or any idea that might introduce kiting as a viable strategy in PvP. With everyone (including heavily armored tanks/brawlers) moving at breakneck speed and so many undodgable attacks, PvP combat these days has just devolved into a dps race.

idk · October 2018

It is a poor idea to slow some players over others in an MMORPG.

It does not matter if it is due to armor choice or what they are carrying. It had a negative effect in both PvE and PvP.

What OP is suggesting completely ignores what Zos has stated is their purpose they are making changes to what we use to gain additional speed as and such is not truly germane to the current changes.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Obviously not. In this game we use bag space to manage acceptable carry space. It is just a bad idea to have encumbrance in an MMORPG. It forces players to completely empty their bags.

Besides, it would mean we could never carry a siege weapon and that would plain be absurd.

You didn't read the post did you? @idk

Kartalin · October 2018

I think it's pretty reasonable that there might speed differences based on armor weight, it's still a matter of balancing it though. Like there shouldn't be a massive difference where it is completely unreasonable to wear a certain type of armor. Something like making full medium armor as base speed and each heavy pieces subtracts 2% and each light piece adds 2%. Or maybe even 1% or 1.5%. Certainly no more than 2.

We could potentially apply this to weapons as well, comparing dual wielding daggers to a 2h greatsword.

Wuuffyy · October 2018

No.

idk · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Obviously not. In this game we use bag space to manage acceptable carry space. It is just a bad idea to have encumbrance in an MMORPG. It forces players to completely empty their bags.

Besides, it would mean we could never carry a siege weapon and that would plain be absurd.

You didn't read the post did you? @idk

Yes I did and you specifically come out in favor o fit when you said:

Dreyloch wrote: »

This could even be something strictly for PvP coded into battle spirit. .

Lets say you slow down a heavy armor player. They can no longer keep up with battle and as such Zos needs to give them snares.

The idea of encumbrance works great for a single player game but is a poorly thought out idea for an MMORPG and there is no insightful aspect of the suggestion above.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

idk wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Obviously not. In this game we use bag space to manage acceptable carry space. It is just a bad idea to have encumbrance in an MMORPG. It forces players to completely empty their bags.

Besides, it would mean we could never carry a siege weapon and that would plain be absurd.

You didn't read the post did you? @idk

Yes I did and you specifically come out in favor o fit when you said:

Dreyloch wrote: »

This could even be something strictly for PvP coded into battle spirit. .

Maybe you did not read your own post.

What are you on about?

OP is talking about speed changes according to equipped armor weight. You responded talking about bag weight and being able to carry siege equipment and have now moved onto talking about battle spirit?

idk · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Obviously not. In this game we use bag space to manage acceptable carry space. It is just a bad idea to have encumbrance in an MMORPG. It forces players to completely empty their bags.

Besides, it would mean we could never carry a siege weapon and that would plain be absurd.

You didn't read the post did you? @idk

Yes I did and you specifically come out in favor o fit when you said:

Dreyloch wrote: »

This could even be something strictly for PvP coded into battle spirit. .

Maybe you did not read your own post.

What are you on about?

OP is talking about speed changes according to equipped armor weight. You responded talking about bag weight and being able to carry siege equipment and have now moved onto talking about battle spirit?

He actually talks about both since he is discussion the entire idea that has been presented.

Regardless, It is clear few follow his idea as worthy of consideration.

It is also clear it is not even remotely along the lines of what Zos has in mind with the changes they are considering.

TequilaFire · October 2018

Great more calculations in a game that is struggling to keep up now.

boombazookajd · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

(Having nothing to do with what your carrying in inv. Lets be straight about that )

@idk

He specifically stated this has nothing to do with bag space/inventory. So yes, you can still carry 4 ballistas and 2 trebuchets, as well as 100 wall repair kits in your backpack

idk · October 2018

boombazookajd wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

(Having nothing to do with what your carrying in inv. Lets be straight about that )

@idk

He specifically stated this has nothing to do with bag space/inventory. So yes, you can still carry 4 ballistas and 2 trebuchets, as well as 100 wall repair kits in your backpack

He actually spoke to the entire thing and in the end focused on merely making two armors slower than the third. That does not make it a better idea, it is still short sighted for MMORPG design.

It also demonstrates OP does not understand what Zos is attempting. As such is developing an idea that will not be seriously considered because ignores why these changes are being made..

Dreyloch · October 2018

idk wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

(Having nothing to do with what your carrying in inv. Lets be straight about that )

@idk

He specifically stated this has nothing to do with bag space/inventory. So yes, you can still carry 4 ballistas and 2 trebuchets, as well as 100 wall repair kits in your backpack

He actually spoke to the entire thing and in the end focused on merely making two armors slower than the third. That does not make it a better idea, it is still short sighted for MMORPG design.

It also demonstrates OP does not understand what Zos is attempting. As such is developing an idea that will not be seriously considered because ignores why these changes are being made..

Oh I completely understand what ZoS is trying to do. I'm thinking maybe your short on the concepts yourself? But I don't know if you PvP. It's my opinion and perhaps that of many others that full medium armor builds worn mainly by stamsorcs and stamdens are making it so other players can not hit them because the speed they have allows them to completely ignore being hit by a multitude of skills. It also allows them to have the advantage of more innate dodge for anything ELSE that might damage them. So how is someone in light or heavy armor suppose to damage these players? It's no longer a "git gud" situation when skills simply can not connect due to the speed of your target being overwhelmingly more than your own.

ZoS is actually doing what I suggest here, just in a round-about way that is hurting many other aspects of the game. I don't want the warden speed buff nerfed. I don't want the swift trait nerfed. What I want is to be able to hit the guy(or gal) that's right in front of me, and not have them move so fast the skill can't connect. ZoS also doesn't want players moving faster than a mounted player with rapids on. I mean seriously, it's getting stupid.

My suggestion is trying to bring equilibrium to the speed that has made PvP less than enjoyable. But without trying to nerf everything as ZoS wants to. I've also said this should not include PvE. So if that's what your worried about, then you really didn't read my post, and I'm sorry, but having PvP'd in this game since beta and having played pretty much daily. I can tell you I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

My suggestion is to bring us all down to a more level speed. Sure, you might go a little faster in light armor, but again. Nothing like it is on live now with medium. I play all kinds of builds, so NO...this is not a nerf medium thread. It's a "Let's level the speed a little better" thread.

edit: adding one more thing. You read this as 2 armors being slower than the third. I know this is a fantasy game and all, but your not going to run the 40 in 4.1 seconds in heavy armor. You might in light armor though. Medium would probably be a close second. So really, picture it in your head and try to understand some physics. Yes, 2 armors might be slower than the third. But the light armor wearer isn't doing that 40 in 2.1 seconds in relation to how the game is currently for medium armor builds with speed enhancements. We need everyone to be a lot closer in speed

Dreyloch · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Obviously not. In this game we use bag space to manage acceptable carry space. It is just a bad idea to have encumbrance in an MMORPG. It forces players to completely empty their bags.

Besides, it would mean we could never carry a siege weapon and that would plain be absurd.

You didn't read the post did you? @idk

Yes I did and you specifically come out in favor o fit when you said:

Dreyloch wrote: »

This could even be something strictly for PvP coded into battle spirit. .

Maybe you did not read your own post.

What are you on about?

OP is talking about speed changes according to equipped armor weight. You responded talking about bag weight and being able to carry siege equipment and have now moved onto talking about battle spirit?

I actually did mention battle spirit, because my suggestions are for PvP. In PvE it would remain the same as it is now. Full speed for w/e your doing. So @IDK is right about that "taken out of text" comment. I think he's kinda quoting me, but responding to you? /shrug

Strider__Roshin · October 2018

Only if we can get poise along with it.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

If you would make heavy very slow then it would need to have it's defence increased by ALOT, as atm speed is the best defence, it doesn't matter what hp, resists, heals and crit resist you have, if your outnumbered then those bleeds/procs will melt you.

RedRook · October 2018

Even in this patch there were lots of players who didn't run even one piece of swift jewelry in PVP. There were plenty (especially magicka characters) who didn't run speed pots. This doesn't need to be their problem too. Making your character slower or faster in Cyrodiil only is also going to throw people off if it ever happens. Battle Spirit is not a panacea.

The problem is speed stacking in combat. Don't allow speed to stack so high in combat: problem solved.

Also, if they could fix whatever they broke that makes the server think people ARE in combat for the entire leisurely jog between keeps, that'd be good too. kthxbai

Dreyloch · October 2018

RedRook wrote: »

Even in this patch there were lots of players who didn't run even one piece of swift jewelry in PVP. There were plenty (especially magicka characters) who didn't run speed pots. This doesn't need to be their problem too. Making you character slower or faster only in Cyrodiil only is also going to throw people off if it ever happens. Battle Spirit is not a panacea.

The problem is speed stacking in combat. Don't allow speed to stack so high in combat: problem solved.

Also, if they could fix whatever they broke that makes the server think people ARE in combat for the entire leisurely jog between keeps, that'd be good too. kthxbai

I agree with your last 2 points there speed stacking is a part of the issue. But ZoS wanting to nerf every single speed skill (outside of rapids) is the wrong move imo.

And yes, sign me up for the "fix out of combat" club lol. I made this thread as just an idea and a discussion to see what else we as players can come up with. ZoS tends to take things way overboard sometimes. I'm just trying to look at a different angle. Putting it into battle spirit makes it easier on the devs. Because we all know, they like easy =/

RedRook · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

RedRook wrote: »

Even in this patch there were lots of players who didn't run even one piece of swift jewelry in PVP. There were plenty (especially magicka characters) who didn't run speed pots. This doesn't need to be their problem too. Making you character slower or faster only in Cyrodiil only is also going to throw people off if it ever happens. Battle Spirit is not a panacea.

The problem is speed stacking in combat. Don't allow speed to stack so high in combat: problem solved.

Also, if they could fix whatever they broke that makes the server think people ARE in combat for the entire leisurely jog between keeps, that'd be good too. kthxbai

I agree with your last 2 points there speed stacking is a part of the issue. But ZoS wanting to nerf every single speed skill (outside of rapids) is the wrong move imo.

And yes, sign me up for the "fix out of combat" club lol. I made this thread as just an idea and a discussion to see what else we as players can come up with. ZoS tends to take things way overboard sometimes. I'm just trying to look at a different angle. Putting it into battle spirit makes it easier on the devs. Because we all know, they like easy =/

"We have heard your pain points and will address them in the way you'll all hate the most! MUAH HA HA HA!"

Not really though. Probably. Right?

LadyNalcarya · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

Only if we can get poise along with it.

And parry/riposte, too, please. So I can parry the spammers.

RinaldoGandolphi · October 2018

Yup,

should have been added at launch

Light Armor = no movement speed penalty, lowest armor rating
Medium Armor = 5% movement speed penalty, average armor rating
Heavy Armor = 10% movement speed penalty, highest armor rating

thats how they should have been balanced from the get go.

Armor Skills as follows:

Light Armor - Gets Root and Snare immunity skill (Instead of Annulment)
Medium Armor gets Dodge Chance and Major Evasion Skill(AOE damage reduction and Dodge chance)
Heavy Armor gets CC Immunity and Block Cost Reduction for slotting Immovable

This isn't rocket science. All 3 armors would be very strong, yet situationally useful.

The only reason Heavy is so strong is because specificlaly on Stam is because quite a few high damage sets like Fury, 7th Legion, and Veiled Heritance exist that allows them to have very high mitigation and high damage, combine it with Forward Momentum and Speed pots, and here we are.