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About the Frag/Spectral Bow change
Strider__Roshin
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Let me start by saying that I understand the purpose of the change was to allow for better counterplay. I get that and I support that. However, the fact that this animation delay prevents you from performing any following attacks for 0.3-0.5 seconds is incredibly frustrating and really kills the fun factor of these moves
My suggestion is to keep the delay, but make it so the delay has no effect your ability to perform following attacks.
It's not too terrible in PvP, but in a PvE rotation it's incredibly annoying, and the delay makes it so these abilities are a DPS loss to cast unless it's animation cancelled via weapon swap.
My suggestion is to keep the delay, but make it so the delay has no effect your ability to perform following attacks.
It's not too terrible in PvP, but in a PvE rotation it's incredibly annoying, and the delay makes it so these abilities are a DPS loss to cast unless it's animation cancelled via weapon swap.
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Bhelen✭✭✭If they give it a delay but allow you to do abilities during it that could potentially make the abilty worse in a PvP scenario -- because now you can line up burst. Assassins Will and then Incap/Fear while it's still traveling. Target get hits with both and a CC at the same time. Providing less counterplay.2 -
Bitmun✭✭✭+1. Animation delay is awful. The way how the proc works on live is fine: projectile is already slow and has a big chance to be blocked or dodged succesfully. It is evadeable even after cc break. Any experienced player knows how to avoid it, even combined with incap/soul harvest/soul tether, etc. However, it's still the key of the burst: save the proc up, cut the target's HP and then go to the straight, unexpected burst with ultimate, cc, bow and IMMIDIATE execute. Its point in how FAST and proper you land the combo. This really makes you feel like a nightblade. :P The other ways are just impossible to kill off experienced stamdks, magplars or just any tanky target.
So the delay makes the burst rotation clunky and unfun: it removes another factor of fast-paced combat system. I guess I do not understand the source of this straight nerf. It is unneeded. Noone was complaining about this. However, the reason might be in upcoming roll-dodge changes, but it is not the right solution, to destroy the animation of skills that might cause problems (again, noone was complaining about these skills after the tests on PTS). My suggestion is to revert the changes, or make another new element of 'counterplay' more interesting and rewarding. (sorry for rusty English :P)2 -
_Salty_✭✭✭✭✭Zos is pretty good at making poor decisions. This is just one, in a forever growing list of unnecessary changes that nobody asked for or ever thought was a problem.Psn l---Salty---l
Patiently waiting to make a Stankcromancer.9 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ouch, your saying the crystal frags animation is even slower?
It is already a really slow cast skill on sorc, which is further burdened with the super slow liquid lightning cast. Not good. Instant cast skills really should not have all these variable length animation messes screwing up you weave.
Also, it's easy a *** to dodge crystal frags already. It is pretty much the slowest animation ever.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.2 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fixed an issue where using the instant-cast proc would cause you to stop blocking, and would prevent you from taking other actions for 0.2 seconds.This ability’s proc now has a very brief minimum travel time before it hits your target.
What the hell!!
Like, What Are You Doing?!?!?!?
I was sooooo happy that they removed that horrible 0.2 second lag on the frags proc. Now it's worse. Great job.3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is not something new. This is how Spectral Bow used to work to a degree. The removal of the bow cast animation was decried by about every decent magblade at the time for making the class ridiculously easy to play in PVP.Edited by usmcjdking on October 4, 2018 5:07AM0331
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TBH this change will make my soul harvest/incap hit at about the same time as the bow proc so yeah nice job ZOSFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me start by saying that I understand the purpose of the change was to allow for better counterplay. I get that and I support that. However, the fact that this animation delay prevents you from performing any following attacks for 0.3-0.5 seconds is incredibly frustrating and really kills the fun factor of these moves
My suggestion is to keep the delay, but make it so the delay has no effect your ability to perform following attacks.
It's not too terrible in PvP, but in a PvE rotation it's incredibly annoying, and the delay makes it so these abilities are a DPS loss to cast unless it's animation cancelled via weapon swap.
Basically, they reintroduced a problem previously fixed -- using the spectral bow in any sort of pve rotation (sustained combat) was clunky, it really messed with your timing, including managing other buffs/debuffs, DOTs, ect. That problem had been complained about for a long time before it got fixed. Re-introducing a delay is definitely a huge step backwards. Not only that, but to add insult to injury, the cost of this ability (in essence) doubled since you have to re-pay to use the proc you already paid for when you initially cast the ability. Procing the spectral bow 2x per cast, in essence, doubles the cost of the ability.
This ability got hit really hard with the nerf hammer, not just once, but twice.Edited by Maryal on October 4, 2018 5:35AM4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, this is a terrible change.
I don't understand why ZOS is winding back a great QoL change that fixed the clunky Spectral Bow procs in the first place.
On live, stamblade/magblade are about the only two DPS specs that are fun, interesting, smooth, and sustainable. And instead of just making the other classes better, they had to go and take a dump on Nightblades. The sustain nerfs are one thing, I don't like it but I understand it, but rolling back fixes that made the class smooth and fun to play is ridiculous.6 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Frags in melee range were hard to dodge when I last used the skill (it's been a long time...). It sounds like this last bit of 'risk and reward' is gone now.no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ironically, spamming hard-cast frags (or snipe or flare) can put quite some pressure now if you don't have the stamina sustain to dodge a lot. The counterplay to this got gutted with the interrupt immunity.no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ironically, spamming hard-cast frags (or snipe or flare) can put quite some pressure now if you don't have the stamina sustain to dodge a lot. The counterplay to this got gutted with the interrupt immunity.
Spamming hard cast frags isn’t cheap though. The cost reduction of the proc is quite substantial. Since Frags no longer stun there are a lot of players who just eat the Frag if they can get into attacking range for it.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Pastas✭✭✭
I tested it with my stamblade and I wasn't able to land the bow proc after Incap hit.
No problem canceling the animation, so no hidden cast time, pve rotation still the same no worries about it.Edited by Pastas on October 4, 2018 9:46AMWARNINGThis post may Include horrible gramatical and orthographic errorsRead on your own riskAD
Dar'foo Stamblade Zorg-gro-Wurf DK tank Far-Datxo Templar healer Valmir Spellius Magsorc
Randolf Omberic Magblade Felien Golas Magdk Faenor Oakwood Stamplar Sader Dustorm Stamsorc
EP
Do'Ragash Stamdk Caius Grachus Stamden Dalyne Narus Magplar
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Melkar Spellius MagdenPC EU1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE6 -
JadonSky✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.
Agreed, the one thing about this game that set it apart from other MMO's was the fast pace live combat. Adding cast time and animation delays just ruins that feel of the game. Plus i don't really understand nurfing things that no one really complained about. But all we can do is test and provide our feedback and hope it gets better. At least they removed cast time from shields even though they are still nerfed pretty hard.0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can't imagine giving players more of an opportunity to Dodge frags. As if they weren't already given enough.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Lol a sorc nerf you don't agree with? How surprisingEmma_Overload wrote: »For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
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Lol a sorc nerf you don't agree with? How surprisingEmma_Overload wrote: »For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.
Avoiding Frags really wasn’t hard before.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Agreed, it is an unnecesary change. I have always said the same thing. Cast times do not belong in eso.
Lol a sorc nerf you don't agree with? How surprisingEmma_Overload wrote: »For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.
Avoiding Frags really wasn’t hard before.0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »For once I agree with Daus. This game doesn't need any more long-assed animations or delayed casts.
Yes, even broken clocks tell the right time twice a day.
I don't forget how he's a prominent and prolific nerf threads creator and how he's part of our problems.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Bhelen✭✭✭Frags was never a problem but assassins will is. Some people can animation cancel incap > assassins will before you can break free > roll dodge. It's mostly only a problem against good players in duels but the heart of the problem is the abilty can hit for like 12k in the proper setup so it needs SOME kind of counterabilty.
Considering that frags deals nearly half that I'm not sure why they are lumping it into the same nerf. It was like when they took C frag stun away so they had to take deep fissure stun from magden. One of those was justifiable but the other is just plain cruel and makes no sense.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Frags was never a problem but assassins will is. Some people can animation cancel incap > assassins will before you can break free > roll dodge. It's mostly only a problem against good players in duels but the heart of the problem is the abilty can hit for like 12k in the proper setup so it needs SOME kind of counterabilty.
Considering that frags deals nearly half that I'm not sure why they are lumping it into the same nerf. It was like when they took C frag stun away so they had to take deep fissure stun from magden. One of those was justifiable but the other is just plain cruel and makes no sense.
I don't have any issues dodging the spectral bow, but I understand that they're wanting to increase the window for counterplay which is understandable since this isn't a lag-free game.
Give the ability a slight delay? Sure.
What I can't stand is the fact that my character can't perform any abilities during this delay. It feels sluggish, it messes up the PvE rotation and greatly reduces the fun factor.1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shouldn't have to sacrifice a fluid pve rotation forFrags was never a problem but assassins will is. Some people can animation cancel incap > assassins will before you can break free > roll dodge. It's mostly only a problem against good players in duels but the heart of the problem is the abilty can hit for like 12k in the proper setup so it needs SOME kind of counterabilty.
Considering that frags deals nearly half that I'm not sure why they are lumping it into the same nerf. It was like when they took C frag stun away so they had to take deep fissure stun from magden. One of those was justifiable but the other is just plain cruel and makes no sense.
I don't have any issues dodging the spectral bow, but I understand that they're wanting to increase the window for counterplay which is understandable since this isn't a lag-free game.
Give the ability a slight delay? Sure.
What I can't stand is the fact that my character can't perform any abilities during this delay. It feels sluggish, it messes up the PvE rotation and greatly reduces the fun factor.
Shouldn't have to sacrifice a fluid pve rotation so bad players have more time to react in pvp.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Frags was never a problem but assassins will is. Some people can animation cancel incap > assassins will before you can break free > roll dodge. It's mostly only a problem against good players in duels but the heart of the problem is the abilty can hit for like 12k in the proper setup so it needs SOME kind of counterabilty.
Considering that frags deals nearly half that I'm not sure why they are lumping it into the same nerf. It was like when they took C frag stun away so they had to take deep fissure stun from magden. One of those was justifiable but the other is just plain cruel and makes no sense.
I don't have any issues dodging the spectral bow, but I understand that they're wanting to increase the window for counterplay which is understandable since this isn't a lag-free game.
Give the ability a slight delay? Sure.
What I can't stand is the fact that my character can't perform any abilities during this delay. It feels sluggish, it messes up the PvE rotation and greatly reduces the fun factor.
This, so much. It feels AWFUL to weave. Like, "get that *** off my bar" bad0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
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It's called latency. Good luck playing without it in PvPEdited by NyassaV on October 4, 2018 10:35PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0
