Lower the ceiling, raise the floor, lol to people who got gud

Tan9oSuccka · October 2018

eliisra wrote: »

I guess from a PvP perspective it's kinda true. They keep nerfing builds that do well solo roaming or 1vX, pushing the playerbase towards safety in numbers which arguably means easier combat.

Shield nerfs, speed nerfs etc, makes it harder to play outnumbered. One might argue that's the same as nerfing skillful gameplay and buffing your average zergling? Than again, not all builds(especially magicka) can roam around 1vX solo on live, doesn't matter how skilled. So from another perspective it's balance, making it equally difficulty for everyone to enjoy non-zerg PvP lol.

I don't think the statement is true for PvE though. There's tons of old content, that majority of players haven't even completed yet, because to hard for them or your average PUG group. VR version of new arena wont be doable for probably 90% of the entire ESO population when Murkmire comes out. That's hardly ZoS lowering the ceiling.

I still think Cyrodiil should be group focused.

People will cry zerg anytime they get caught outnumbered. My four man group got wiped by 12. Is that a “zerg”? Nope. We should have taken a different path.

You can’t solo ten people anymore with whacked out, broken builds? Good!

Too bad.

srfrogg23 · October 2018

I got killed in the battlegrounds the other day. Since the player that killed me is obviously less skilled than I am, it's pretty clear that Zos is only catering to the casuals.

Peekachu99 · October 2018

Um top tier PVE and PVP players will still run circles around their competition. I’ve been soloing vet bosses and Zerg-diving since I “got gud” and none of these changes will impact me or even my squishier dps toons at all since I already run triglyphs on all my kids. Oh noes! I have to sacrifice 3K MAX MAGIKA!!! How will I survive? I need to have a dash of HP now!!! Preposterous!!!

The hyperbole surrounding this is as bad as when Morrowind dropped. And look: most of us are still here.

DMuehlhausen · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

5% would actually be high for a game like this. During about this time in WoWs life cycle it was less than 1% of the population was completing raids. The game is also going to cater to the other 99%. Raiders give the other people something to shoot for, specially when they are the only ones that can obtain certain weapons and armor pieces, but they don't keep the game alive.

Kadoin · October 2018

callen4492 wrote: »

Please explain what you mean. How has the playing field been leveled so there’s not a gap between the skilled players and unskilled players?

I'm guessing its the part where they can no longer roll over players they deem "bad"

Turelus · October 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

This is an odd complaint to me; I feel like I've been watching the parse gap between average players and the more competitive set continue to widen, and I certainly haven't seen a decrease in complaints about new vet content being too hard for most players.

This is the same for me. The gap used to be closed based on gear and levels with player knowledge or rotations. With the buff to light attack weaving the gap's now much larger and based more on player skill.

Whilst I am not entirely against this, they seem to be raising the content to match the ceiling but the floor is left wondering how to get up there still.

Personal thoughts on it any way.

SakuraRush · October 2018

Mr_Walker wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

The motivation to improve, especially in PvP, is lost when you walk into Cyrodiil and get creamed for months on end, just to slightly improve and get someones health down halfway before getting creamed.
In PvE, I'll bet more than half of the population can't animation cancel. Have never been able to. Yet Zos keeps raising the bar by introducing one shot mechanics and encouraging bringing dps instead of healers to burn before you even see the mechanic.

Sadly, game companies seem to listen to the average forum braggadocio who endlessly complains that everything is too easy, that they can solo content wearing nothing but a loincloth and a smile at lvl 1, even though most people are full of crap.

Then the rest of the player base ends up with wildly ridiculous bosses/game mechanics, and the laziest game mechanic of them all, the one-shot kill.

I can animation cancel though. After a fashion.

PvP is just like a fighting game. You have to lose in order to learn. You have to spend a lot of time getting bodied. You have to practice. You can't just watch some YouTube videos and dive in expecting to take on the world.

When people aren't willing to go through the growing pains you get what becomes the content for scrubquotes. Makes me realize ESO needs a scrubquotes.

For PVE you have to be willing to learn the mechanics. You need to learn the responsibility of all roles not just your own. So you know what to do when things go left. You can't just practice a rotation and think you're ready to go. It's why wipes happen.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

But players don't want to learn and get better. They want the rewards without the work. If something is hard they complain until it's changed to suit them. If it's not changed they quit.

(Oh and so we're clear I agree that one shot mechanics are a lazy design cop out.)

Cage_Lizardman · October 2018

I'm still pretty much in the same spot I've always been, good at most things but not good enough for most vet trial groups. DPS has gone up, but so has the requirements. It doesn't really seem as if much has changed to me.

SakuraRush · October 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

We must be playing a different game or something. The gap between dummy humpers and average players is bigger than its ever been. Nothing happened to bring good players down. Average are getting made better. That’s kind of a good thing imo.

More damage doesn't equal better player

While I agree, try getting into a dlc vet trial with anything less than 35K-40K sustained dps.

I'm going through the "dummy humpiing" phase now trying to improve my dps so I can do dlc trials.

I spend one hour of my already precious play time practicing a rotation on that dummy every day.

It sucks. Its boring and not fun at all.

People don't want to have to do that for a game.
.

An hour a day?! Jheeze I just do 1 parse when I login to each character, maybe 4-6 minutes a day at most...

I don't do it at all. Dummies don't move. They don't fight back. My "parse" doesn't mean squat unless the entire fight is me standing still playing Simon with myself.

Haashhtaag · October 2018

BNOC wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

Not outdated stats, just being peddled without any context.

Amount of people that hit level 50

Amount of people that reached 300 CP (I wouldn't imagine any lower for endgame content, not without serious experience - cross server etc)

Amount of players that have done AA on any difficulty

Amount of players that have done MSA on any difficulty

Let's say 100% is 1,000 Players for numbers sake:

445/1000 44.5% reach level 50
449/1000 44.9% reach 300 CP (Which obviously accounts for anyone who assigns that many CP to any character so this number would be significantly lower if we focused on unique accounts) - We'll use this number anyway even though it makes the following numbers lower than they would be (beneficial to your point)
103/449 22.9% Complete MA on any difficulty (Vet is 47/445)
56/449 12.4% | 56/103 54.3%(Of players who tried MA) Can only complete MA on normal
47/449 10.4% | 47/103 45.7%(Of players who tried MA) Can do it on both difficulties.
147/449 32.7% Can complete AA on any difficulty (as above Vet vs Normal applies)

This kinda thing applies across all achievements and as you can see, doesn't take in to account so many important factors;
We can see that more people apply 300CP than reach level 50, so there's a lot of alt accounts making up numbers there.
We can't see who owns the DLC for content you're talking about.
The list goes on.

They're catering to more people than everyone seems to think and when you assess the Normal MA percentages for example, you see something quite concerning.
22.9% of players can complete MA on normal, now, we can safely agree that normal MA can be done by anyone playing this game. So why is there only 22.9% of people completing it. Is anyone else trying? What happened to the other 346 characters?

As you account for these kind of variables, all of these peddled stats start crumbling down into something contrary to what this thread is suggesting and completion rates for content is much higher.

Please stop - Besides, as I've said and will say a thousand more times, I'm sure; Not everyone has to be able to complete and or compete, it's totally fine to not be good at specific things in an MMO.

Those numbers imo are meaningless because it includes everyone who has purchased the game and that is misleading.

Reverb · October 2018

Competitive players are clocking 50k dps without sweating, and most dungeon pugs fall short of 20k. The room’s not that small.

Wifeaggro13 · October 2018

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

its true there is not much space for growth in this game, its in that Gray area where its trying to please casuals and serious players, and to be fair its working for them. They are loosing more serious players that would like more competitive pvp etc. but they are making back more in new and casual players.

A lot of it is fault of the levelling system. the CP system is hugely out of date.

that's true to a certain extent. but the problem is the attrition is now starting to outweigh the churn.no game should make their sole goal to attract new player it should be to build community and longevity. this plan is profitable for a game they plan to shut down and not put much money back into. which it is doing right now. it does not cost them really anything to use the same old tiles and build a new zone and throw some monsters in it, they dev costs would be in implementing and creating new game systems expanding character development and such.

the problem comes when the player has had a rear full of regurgitated leveling content with a chapter label on it and charged a premium plus a subscription if you want a crafting bag. it gets extremely boring and unfulfilling to keep playing the easy bake leveling content with no progression. there are tons of single player RPG's that do that job way better then ESO. eventually, you have churned your way through the game populations and your left with a very sparse unpopulated game with very little diversity in its game play.

BNOC · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

Not outdated stats, just being peddled without any context.

Amount of people that hit level 50

Amount of people that reached 300 CP (I wouldn't imagine any lower for endgame content, not without serious experience - cross server etc)

Amount of players that have done AA on any difficulty

Amount of players that have done MSA on any difficulty

Let's say 100% is 1,000 Players for numbers sake:

445/1000 44.5% reach level 50
449/1000 44.9% reach 300 CP (Which obviously accounts for anyone who assigns that many CP to any character so this number would be significantly lower if we focused on unique accounts) - We'll use this number anyway even though it makes the following numbers lower than they would be (beneficial to your point)
103/449 22.9% Complete MA on any difficulty (Vet is 47/445)
56/449 12.4% | 56/103 54.3%(Of players who tried MA) Can only complete MA on normal
47/449 10.4% | 47/103 45.7%(Of players who tried MA) Can do it on both difficulties.
147/449 32.7% Can complete AA on any difficulty (as above Vet vs Normal applies)

This kinda thing applies across all achievements and as you can see, doesn't take in to account so many important factors;
We can see that more people apply 300CP than reach level 50, so there's a lot of alt accounts making up numbers there.
We can't see who owns the DLC for content you're talking about.
The list goes on.

They're catering to more people than everyone seems to think and when you assess the Normal MA percentages for example, you see something quite concerning.
22.9% of players can complete MA on normal, now, we can safely agree that normal MA can be done by anyone playing this game. So why is there only 22.9% of people completing it. Is anyone else trying? What happened to the other 346 characters?

As you account for these kind of variables, all of these peddled stats start crumbling down into something contrary to what this thread is suggesting and completion rates for content is much higher.

Please stop - Besides, as I've said and will say a thousand more times, I'm sure; Not everyone has to be able to complete and or compete, it's totally fine to not be good at specific things in an MMO.

Those numbers imo are meaningless because it includes everyone who has purchased the game and that is misleading.

That's why I didn't do it on total players who bought the game but instead done it based on the percentage of players that have 300CP and those that have hit level 50 as they're the only ones that could actually clear the content being presented as 'catered to the ceiling'.

Haashhtaag · October 2018

BNOC wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

Not outdated stats, just being peddled without any context.

Amount of people that hit level 50

Amount of people that reached 300 CP (I wouldn't imagine any lower for endgame content, not without serious experience - cross server etc)

Amount of players that have done AA on any difficulty

Amount of players that have done MSA on any difficulty

Let's say 100% is 1,000 Players for numbers sake:

445/1000 44.5% reach level 50
449/1000 44.9% reach 300 CP (Which obviously accounts for anyone who assigns that many CP to any character so this number would be significantly lower if we focused on unique accounts) - We'll use this number anyway even though it makes the following numbers lower than they would be (beneficial to your point)
103/449 22.9% Complete MA on any difficulty (Vet is 47/445)
56/449 12.4% | 56/103 54.3%(Of players who tried MA) Can only complete MA on normal
47/449 10.4% | 47/103 45.7%(Of players who tried MA) Can do it on both difficulties.
147/449 32.7% Can complete AA on any difficulty (as above Vet vs Normal applies)

This kinda thing applies across all achievements and as you can see, doesn't take in to account so many important factors;
We can see that more people apply 300CP than reach level 50, so there's a lot of alt accounts making up numbers there.
We can't see who owns the DLC for content you're talking about.
The list goes on.

They're catering to more people than everyone seems to think and when you assess the Normal MA percentages for example, you see something quite concerning.
22.9% of players can complete MA on normal, now, we can safely agree that normal MA can be done by anyone playing this game. So why is there only 22.9% of people completing it. Is anyone else trying? What happened to the other 346 characters?

As you account for these kind of variables, all of these peddled stats start crumbling down into something contrary to what this thread is suggesting and completion rates for content is much higher.

Please stop - Besides, as I've said and will say a thousand more times, I'm sure; Not everyone has to be able to complete and or compete, it's totally fine to not be good at specific things in an MMO.

Those numbers imo are meaningless because it includes everyone who has purchased the game and that is misleading.

That's why I didn't do it on total players who bought the game but instead done it based on the percentage of players that have 300CP and those that have hit level 50 as they're the only ones that could actually clear the content being presented as 'catered to the ceiling'.

Still useless numbers. Doesn’t to take into account players who achieved those mile stones and quit

BNOC · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

Not outdated stats, just being peddled without any context.

Amount of people that hit level 50

Amount of people that reached 300 CP (I wouldn't imagine any lower for endgame content, not without serious experience - cross server etc)

Amount of players that have done AA on any difficulty

Amount of players that have done MSA on any difficulty

Let's say 100% is 1,000 Players for numbers sake:

445/1000 44.5% reach level 50
449/1000 44.9% reach 300 CP (Which obviously accounts for anyone who assigns that many CP to any character so this number would be significantly lower if we focused on unique accounts) - We'll use this number anyway even though it makes the following numbers lower than they would be (beneficial to your point)
103/449 22.9% Complete MA on any difficulty (Vet is 47/445)
56/449 12.4% | 56/103 54.3%(Of players who tried MA) Can only complete MA on normal
47/449 10.4% | 47/103 45.7%(Of players who tried MA) Can do it on both difficulties.
147/449 32.7% Can complete AA on any difficulty (as above Vet vs Normal applies)

This kinda thing applies across all achievements and as you can see, doesn't take in to account so many important factors;
We can see that more people apply 300CP than reach level 50, so there's a lot of alt accounts making up numbers there.
We can't see who owns the DLC for content you're talking about.
The list goes on.

They're catering to more people than everyone seems to think and when you assess the Normal MA percentages for example, you see something quite concerning.
22.9% of players can complete MA on normal, now, we can safely agree that normal MA can be done by anyone playing this game. So why is there only 22.9% of people completing it. Is anyone else trying? What happened to the other 346 characters?

As you account for these kind of variables, all of these peddled stats start crumbling down into something contrary to what this thread is suggesting and completion rates for content is much higher.

Please stop - Besides, as I've said and will say a thousand more times, I'm sure; Not everyone has to be able to complete and or compete, it's totally fine to not be good at specific things in an MMO.

Those numbers imo are meaningless because it includes everyone who has purchased the game and that is misleading.

That's why I didn't do it on total players who bought the game but instead done it based on the percentage of players that have 300CP and those that have hit level 50 as they're the only ones that could actually clear the content being presented as 'catered to the ceiling'.

Still useless numbers. Doesn’t to take into account players who achieved those mile stones and quit

That's my whole point - There's too many factors to be peddling these figures, especially the flat stat.

So, if you went and broke it down fully, with all of the things to be considered, completion percentages would be much higher as a base percentage than the '2%', '5%', '10%', people are literally inventing to back their silly arguments.

P.S. Not sure what you meant by doesn't include people who achieved those milestones and then quit - Those people are part of the stats.

Urvoth · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

The people that play everyday and spend hours and hours doing endgame content are way more likely to spend money on the game than people that log in for 2 hours once a week...

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Kolache wrote: »

So many posts vaguely referencing balance and difficulty, floor/ceiling, potatos, etc.

Yet there are like at least 4 incredibly different areas of the game, difficulty/balance-wise:
PvE: Open world through non-DLC veteran dungeons

PvE: Veteran DLC dungeons through veteran trials and HMs

PvP: Non-CP campaigns and battlegrounds

PvP: CP campaigns and dueling

Add to this a player base that more often than not shares the same content but is spread across many levels/CP...

Which is why CP is bad. Added balancing complexity in a game where they're already doing a pretty bad job of balancing it.

Katahdin · October 2018

SakuraRush wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

We must be playing a different game or something. The gap between dummy humpers and average players is bigger than its ever been. Nothing happened to bring good players down. Average are getting made better. That’s kind of a good thing imo.

More damage doesn't equal better player

While I agree, try getting into a dlc vet trial with anything less than 35K-40K sustained dps.

I'm going through the "dummy humpiing" phase now trying to improve my dps so I can do dlc trials.

I spend one hour of my already precious play time practicing a rotation on that dummy every day.

It sucks. Its boring and not fun at all.

People don't want to have to do that for a game.
.

An hour a day?! Jheeze I just do 1 parse when I login to each character, maybe 4-6 minutes a day at most...

I don't do it at all. Dummies don't move. They don't fight back. My "parse" doesn't mean squat unless the entire fight is me standing still playing Simon with myself.

I agree with the premise of your statement.
A dummy parse against a non moving, non combative opponent where you are standing in one place does not compare in any way to a fight where you have to move, switch targets, move out of damage circles or cones, get stunned, and have to block or self heal etc

However the fact remains you have to prove you can do that dps to the group leads if you want to step foot in a vet dlc trial.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

OP, you are simply clueless. You offer nothing to support your assertion because it is simply false. The gap has been widening by the minute since morrowind, especially in PVE. Damage is out of control in the best raid groups. In PvP, arguably the easiest class to play (mag Sorc) has been beaten with a nerf hammer. WTF are you even talking about?

Crafts_Many_Boxes · October 2018

I wish this were true lol. The other night, I brought my newly created magden (I'm a masochist, I know) in for the vet pledges.

In direfrost I was doing 20k and around 70% of the damage. In whatever the other one was (Spindle 2 maybe? I forget) I was doing 75% of the damage, also at 20k. This means that the other dps, tank and healer combined were doing maybe 10k dps. Maybe. Drodda on HM took about 11 minutes, because the other dps also rarely broke free. The floor is still very low my friend. Very low.

Keep in mind I'm only kind of a potato too, I'm missing mages guild and undaunted passives still and trying to do that ice mage thing because themes are fun for alts I guess.

DeadlyPhoenix · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

due to their statistics(maybe outdated now) only less than 5% of playerbase ( i guess it was not actually players just accounts) have completed endgame dlc HMs + trial HMs +vMA etc

so why should they please 1/10 max part of potential customers?
meh screw them and go focus on crown store for casuals(majority)...

Well to be fair.... what you said is more accurate in it being 5% of accounts as opposed to 5% of the player base. You have to remember that there are a ton of players out there with 10+ free console alt accounts to get a private guild bank. Many of which were never logged into again or only used for crafting writs and daily farming.

I can assure you much more than that have completed them, but still, I don't see it being higher than 30% of the playerbase.

Then you also have a lot of people that simply do not wish to do group content with the way toxicity exists in trials and vet content. Others are simply more solo and don't have the time to spam zone chat to find a worthy group or unwillingness to join a guild and be social.

They need to show the statistics of how many players have attempted said content vs how many have completed it. Not just an overall completion rating. Meaning like 1/3rd of the population that have attempted said content have been successful in completing it. Even that will give skewed results though.

josiahva · October 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

We must be playing a different game or something. The gap between dummy humpers and average players is bigger than its ever been. Nothing happened to bring good players down. Average are getting made better. That’s kind of a good thing imo.

More damage doesn't equal better player

While I agree, try getting into a dlc vet trial with anything less than 35K-40K sustained dps.

I'm going through the "dummy humpiing" phase now trying to improve my dps so I can do dlc trials.

I spend one hour of my already precious play time practicing a rotation on that dummy every day.

It sucks. Its boring and not fun at all.

People don't want to have to do that for a game.
.

Simple solution...don't enable the elitists...simply don't do trials with elitist groups. This may mean you don't do trials often...but big deal, there is no real reason to run them often anyway since they tend to drop sets that are really only BIS in trials...and there are quicker ways to make gold if that is your thing.

swippy · October 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

The motivation to improve, especially in PvP, is lost when you walk into Cyrodiil and get creamed for months on end, just to slightly improve and get someones health down halfway before getting creamed.
In PvE, I'll bet more than half of the population can't animation cancel. Have never been able to. Yet Zos keeps raising the bar by introducing one shot mechanics and encouraging bringing dps instead of healers to burn before you even see the mechanic.
This "lower the ceiling, raise the floor" mentality you speak of? Haven't seen much of it in actual play. Seems the gap is wider than ever..

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Sadly, game companies seem to listen to the average forum braggadocio who endlessly complains that everything is too easy, that they can solo content wearing nothing but a loincloth and a smile at lvl 1, even though most people are full of crap.

Then the rest of the player base ends up with wildly ridiculous bosses/game mechanics, and the laziest game mechanic of them all, the one-shot kill.

I can animation cancel though. After a fashion.

I've been convinced for some time that animation canceling is the single biggest difference between our nominal "average" and "high end" players...

i'm not saying i disgree, but i'm surprised to hear this. i just hit 666CP and i sort of worked out canceling myself along the way, and i still suck, especially in dungeons. i think i'm getting the hang of Cyrodiil, but i'm still scared of vMA and anything beyond vWGT. thank goodness for The Golden...

D0PAMINE · October 2018

eso_nya wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

pauli133 wrote: »

This is an odd complaint to me; I feel like I've been watching the parse gap between average players and the more competitive set continue to widen, and I certainly haven't seen a decrease in complaints about new vet content being too hard for most players.

I agree. There is a body of ocean between the average player, decent player, and top player. Most players won't even touch the new dlc vet content. The missus and I have to drag people into the new content and whisper sweet lil lies to them " C'mon, it's easy, we promise

I set myself to offlinemode for a few month everytime they bring a dungeon dlc.

Omg I know. As soon as I log on "Dopa...Wanna tank/dps [insert content]? And im like [removed profanity]

iCaliban · October 2018

callen4492 wrote: »

Please explain what you mean. How has the playing field been leveled so there’s not a gap between the skilled players and unskilled players?

In pvp, slap on heavy armor, grab a healer or 3 other friends all running vigor. Run in a group, spam Dawnbreaker and then spin to win. Dont do anything if DB isnt up.

Strider__Roshin · October 2018

I feel like Murkmire is going to be the patch of "Git Gud".

Damage shields are getting nerfed, RNG dodge is going away, and i-frames are being reduced for dodge rolling projectiles.

Both stamina and magicka are getting their own respective crutches nerfed, and I'm looking forward to see who will be left standing.

My guess is probably the stamina community. Why? It's been the more difficult play style for as long as I can remember so stamina players are used to an uphill battle. Magicka, not so much.

I encourage all of you to test out builds, and see what works, and what doesn't.

Either way I'm looking forward to next update.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2018

Think of it as an opportunity to get gooder.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

I feel like Murkmire is going to be the patch of "Git Gud".

Damage shields are getting nerfed, RNG dodge is going away, and i-frames are being reduced for dodge rolling projectiles.

Both stamina and magicka are getting their own respective crutches nerfed, and I'm looking forward to see who will be left standing.

My guess is probably the stamina community. Why? It's been the more difficult play style for as long as I can remember so stamina players are used to an uphill battle. Magicka, not so much.

I encourage all of you to test out builds, and see what works, and what doesn't.

Either way I'm looking forward to next update.

Some people just want to watch the world burn... haha

I agree. This patch is going to increase the skill gap for sure. As to whom will come out on top, well lets break it down. In PVP stam is on top now, and they arent getting hit as hard as magic, so i am guessing stam will still be on top then. For trial DPS, stam is already on top except for two pieces of content. In trials one through 5, people will still stack 5-6 stamina and 2 -3 magic, just as they do now (this is more about mechanics than damage), and in the last two trials, you will still see prominently ranged (which practically means magic) DPS (again this is more about mechanics than damage).

Stam is overall more powerful, which is near impossible to debate. I think their is risk reward in PVE, so I am fine with it, but I am not sure that tradeoff is nearly as prevelant in PVP. Yes a mag sorc is probably easier to play than a stamblade or stam warden in open world, but the later are so much more powerful in even average hands.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

We must be playing a different game or something. The gap between dummy humpers and average players is bigger than its ever been. Nothing happened to bring good players down. Average are getting made better. That’s kind of a good thing imo.

Honestly they are making it harder to be an average player who trying to progress to be above average. Nerfing roll dodge and shield is going to be a huge bust to the average player and will slightly tickle the top end players

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

SakuraRush wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

We must be playing a different game or something. The gap between dummy humpers and average players is bigger than its ever been. Nothing happened to bring good players down. Average are getting made better. That’s kind of a good thing imo.

More damage doesn't equal better player

While I agree, try getting into a dlc vet trial with anything less than 35K-40K sustained dps.

I'm going through the "dummy humpiing" phase now trying to improve my dps so I can do dlc trials.

I spend one hour of my already precious play time practicing a rotation on that dummy every day.

It sucks. Its boring and not fun at all.

People don't want to have to do that for a game.
.

An hour a day?! Jheeze I just do 1 parse when I login to each character, maybe 4-6 minutes a day at most...

I don't do it at all. Dummies don't move. They don't fight back. My "parse" doesn't mean squat unless the entire fight is me standing still playing Simon with myself.

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. How are you going to pull top end numbers on something that's fighting and moving when you cant do it on something that isnt. Dummys are for getting quicker and better at rotations, testing different variables, and commiting rotations to memory while also getting a better feel for your class skills and sustain. Saying dummy parse don't mean squat or are worthless is usually what people say when they don't understand the game or want to actively get better and are looking for something to blame. Doesn't mean that's what your doing right now. It's just the general sentiment i've seen.
That being said dummy parses aren't everything and won't replace practice and experience in the content, but it is place to practice in the area's it allows for.