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Fake role ***....and an idea on how to deal with it
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witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sheezabeast wrote: »The number of people who abuse it for line-cutting faaaaar outnumber the people who can legit perform 'any role'.
So true.
Not saying they are all unicorns. There are amazingly skilled players.
But ... internet forums being what they are ...1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tank: -50% damage done, +10% less damage taken, +taunt on all heavy attacks, +60% more resources gained on heavy attack
You want me to stop queing as a tank? Because that's how you'd get me to stop bringing my heavy armor, SnB tanks into random dungeons. There's nothing more disappointing than looking at the DPS meter and realizing that I'm pulling 50% of the group DPS on the boss.
So, if the DPS suck, then this just punishes the Tank. Yeah, I'd take less damage, except it would be way less than 10%, because of how mitigation stacking. So I'd still be looking at picking up the rest of the party after their dead.
Also, I ask you: Do you have any idea how incomprehensibly annoying snipe spammers who queued as tanks would be with this implementation?3 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »
I agree with jr here. I mean, are we going to check tanks for Ebon before we let them queue?
I know that many vet tanks use Ebon; I do have a sorc tank that does not, and has successfully tanked vet dailiesTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »You can alter the rules of the queue over and over, but if the content is scaled out of reach for a majority, the groups will still struggle.
I think this is the basic issue.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »
I agree with jr here. I mean, are we going to check tanks for Ebon before we let them queue?
I know that many vet tanks use Ebon; I do have a sorc tank that does not, and has successfully tanked vet dailies
Yeah, locking a tank into one set... especially a set that exists in weapons and jewelry, is not a great idea.
If you did lock it that way, you'd see DPS running jewelry and weapon Ebon for fast queues.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Two ways to deal with fake roll SNIPshit:
1. deal with it and hard carry/cover missing roles as needed.
2. votekick.
No bizarre scaling buffs/debuffs needed.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Two ways to deal with fake roll SNIPshit:
1. deal with it and hard carry/cover missing roles as needed.
2. votekick.
No bizarre scaling buffs/debuffs needed.
yeah, votekick is like democracy (edit: actually it IS democracy lol), it's the worst system except for all the others. At least all the other that have been proposed in this thread.0 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do you really think that my 30-40k dps healer should receive 80% dps debuff
Just to please those two 10k(max) dps guys with orbs and babysitting them for an hour in fg1??
How can we punish fake dps?
Anyway your so called *solution* is a nonsense with ridiculous numbers putted out from nowhere
It brings so many potential problems and solve none of the existing ones (if there are any, which i really doubt btw...just vote kick your fake tank and proceed further)2 -
FR0STDEE✭✭✭✭codestripper wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.
it's less that and more "fake healer McactuallyaDD" can't show up and just DD things as per normal...instead they will be slapped with a dps debuff...which won't effect a healer..as they will be..ya know..healing....and buffing....
The thing is though, healers still need to assist with group damage. A decent healer can do 10-20% of the damage in a normal group.
no they don't NEED to... a half decent group burns things down fast enough...plus if the healer is managing 20% of the group dps...then eaither something is very wrong, or the group has very *** dps.
Healers don't need to be constantly healing. Even in pug vet dungeons my healer usually does 30% healing and 70% dps in its rotation. If my group is fully healed and got there buffs then what do you suggest I do? Keep throwing out unnecessary heals?1 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sadly, until ZOS comes up with dungeon mechanics that emphasise the trilogy, instead of encouraging MOAR DOTS! by focusing on one-shot mechanics, we will be in an issue where its easier to just zerg-a-lerg through the content.Edited by witchdoctor on October 3, 2018 1:54AM1 -
Gatviper✭✭✭✭Not much you can do. Just happened today as a DD upon the daily Banished Cells I (which unfortunately also is the current farm zone for current helm pattern page), first time it was a Tank who just went ahead not considering anyone else, and not tanking anything except of blocking mobs who were attacking him, and a Healer who was playing a DD and not healing much at all. I stayed until the second boss, then after numerous wipes of both DD group members left.
Second try, it was a good 200+CP DD + me and a tank who proceeded normally, and a Healer who asked, literally, if "could we do that quick plz" and continued to go far ahead while rest of the group went the full road. Second time I stayed through the whole show and finished the daily, however I wouldn't want to do that a second time, despite a pretty quick 3-people progression (with the Healer being occasionally useful).
End of the story is, better avoid the current fashion vet dungeons if they're the daily, or be prepared to endure some frustration, or laughing at other's expense, whichever is more your fancy. I mean I understand some people are farming the helm pattern 12/7 and get seriously bored with the zone, but it's not an excuse to ruin it for other group members.
While I couldn't think of a meaningful way to "enforce" a role in the group, there's always the option to kick a fake-non-contributing group member, however that's about 50-50% chance to actually succeed, and the following search for the mission role could take a while anyway.Life is a ride, like days in a train, cities rush by, like ghosts in the night.
The rhythm of wheels, time fades away, stations of a journey, destination unknown.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you are just doing a random daily just to do a random then do it on normal because it doesn't matter for the most part if they are fake or not.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First, I would suggest doing the random daily on normal. Getting fake roles is not a big deal in most of them.
Second, debuffing players, making them weaker, is not something Zos wants to do outside of nerfing abilities in updates. Seriously. It is why Zos scaled all the zones to CP160 vs having us scale to lower levels when entering older zones. MFirror stated this specifically.
Beyond that, there is only one check that can be made to ensure a player can tank or heal when they queue for that role. Tanks merely need a taunt and heals merely need one heal. It does mean they will actually use it or keep it slotted.
One sure fire way to ensure you do not get a fake healer or fake tank is to form your own group and queue. It works really well.
1 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭The funny part is that all of you people don't realize...
People that queue to be carried wouldn't care one bit about the penalties, most of them wouldn't even know there are penalties.
The only thing it would utterly destroy is build diversity in the GF population.
I know I wouldn't be going anywhere near the GF with my fat nord stamwarden healer... I'd just premade and port in.
Ironically this solution would make sure experienced players wouldn't use the GF finder anymore and leave all the dregs, so you would have even more snipe spammers from max range that get oneshotted by mechanics and fake roles to skip the queue, because there are even less real tanks in the queue.
Edited by Aisle9 on October 3, 2018 6:08AMArtemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)
Lemmy Raise Master - EP stamina necromancer (PC - EU)
Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild
LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.
#SpellswordArmy
#MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain
In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit
"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »The number of people who abuse it for line-cutting faaaaar outnumber the people who can legit perform 'any role'.
True. Not as evidence but as a comment, I have 8 toons and only one can do all roles and even then, only on the easiest vets. 20k damage, 20k resists unbuffed, 9k tooltip healing, 19k health and 32k mag with 1800 Regen. Like a duck, that swims walks and flies, but very poorly. 😋0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Today I have tried to get my random daily dungeon done...17 times...and yet every single time it has been rendered not possible due to one [or more] pricks showing up in as fake role [on vet mind you..like..wtf] as you can picture it is frustrating to no end...but..all is not lost, I have an idea on how to fix it...introducing
ROLE EFFECTS: when you are in a dungeon under a certain role you are given certain buffs [and debuffs] to make you suitable for your *** job
Healer: -80% damage done, +30% major/minor buff duration on self and targets +15% healing done
Tank: -50% damage done, +10% less damage taken, +taunt on all heavy attacks, +60% more resources gained on heavy attack
DPS: +5% damage done, +tether [basically a synergy that can be used to drag them back to the rest of the group in the event t hey run off past all the mobs...like an ***]
result: Unless you are suited for the role you queue as, you're just going to get slapped with debuffs and have a bad time [to the point where you might as well not bother]
if you guys can think of a method that's a little less heavy handed while also being this effective at keeping the fakes way, then lets hear it.
It's an interesting idea. But I'm not sure what effect it would have.
Fake tanks for example already suck at their role. So I'm not sure that giving them debuffs that makes them suck even more is going to encourage them to stop lying about their roles.
I've been on a lucky streak as of late and have only had one fake tank in the last week or so. Used to be it was every other run - sometimes more. So I think calling awareness to this problem on the forums has helped a lot. Just keep removing them from groups and eventually hopefully they'll get the message and learn to wait in line like everyone else.Edited by Jeremy on October 3, 2018 8:15AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »How about git gud? TBH I hate what they did to the group finder. I carry more than 10 sets on one character so I can fill every role but now I'm forced to queue for just one
Honestly just learn to solo the dungeon
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that players solo vet dungeons, certainly not vet DLC dungeons.
Also, if you can legit do every role, then just queue as tank and play as a tank. It's the role that you'd be filling anyway if you queue for all 3.
Tanking is boring. And "almost" every dungeon save for the DLC dungeons and some that have certain mechanicscan be soloed. Even then you aren't actually soloing it you just carry everyone else
Sounds like the real answer is not class nerfs to classes or skills. Looks like a dungeon restructure is needed.
Easy - Would be today's normal difficulty - Awards Green quality gear.
Normal - Increased difficulty (Leaning more towards today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Blue quality gear.
Veteran - Even higher difficulty (Harder than today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Purple quality gear.
Hard Mode Veteran - The most difficult setting - Awards Yellow quality gear.
If dungeons are so easily soloed, then the game is obviously not difficult enough.
I would love to see these players solo a Veteran March of Sacrifices. Until I see a video of them actually doing it - I call b.s.
Not to mention it would take way too long even if they could manage it (which again: I seriously doubt). So I would not listen to these posters suggesting that everyone just needs to learn to solo dungeons. It's ridiculous and absurd advice.
The base line dungeons are fairly easy for high level characters. But that is older content. The DLC dungeons still provide plenty of challenge for even veteran players.Edited by Jeremy on October 3, 2018 8:37AM0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »How about git gud? TBH I hate what they did to the group finder. I carry more than 10 sets on one character so I can fill every role but now I'm forced to queue for just one
Honestly just learn to solo the dungeon
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that players solo vet dungeons, certainly not vet DLC dungeons.
Also, if you can legit do every role, then just queue as tank and play as a tank. It's the role that you'd be filling anyway if you queue for all 3.
Tanking is boring. And "almost" every dungeon save for the DLC dungeons and some that have certain mechanicscan be soloed. Even then you aren't actually soloing it you just carry everyone else
Sounds like the real answer is not class nerfs to classes or skills. Looks like a dungeon restructure is needed.
Easy - Would be today's normal difficulty - Awards Green quality gear.
Normal - Increased difficulty (Leaning more towards today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Blue quality gear.
Veteran - Even higher difficulty (Harder than today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Purple quality gear.
Hard Mode Veteran - The most difficult setting - Awards Yellow quality gear.
If dungeons are so easily soloed, then the game is obviously not difficult enough.
I would love to see these players solo a Veteran March of Sacrifices. Until I see a video of them actually doing it - I call b.s.
Not to mention it would take way too long even if they could manage it (which again: I seriously doubt). So I would not listen to these posters suggesting that everyone just needs to learn to solo dungeons. It's ridiculous and absurd advice.
The base line dungeons are fairly easy for high level characters. But that is older content. The DLC dungeons still provide plenty of challenge for even veteran players.
I believe that when people refer to soloing the content they are referring to the traditional vet mode dungeons, the new DLC can be soloed by the very best players but, as you note, it takes a long time. Even the old DLC (WGT etc) is quite tough to solo on vet and again, is more time consuming than dropping group and tolerating the 15 minute penalty.
If I get a run of weak groups when aiming for the daily XP bonus I go to random normal, as I know I can carry anyone through anything the game throws at me. But preferably I'll run the pledges with guildies or friends as I know I can then accomplish HM.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »kathandira wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »How about git gud? TBH I hate what they did to the group finder. I carry more than 10 sets on one character so I can fill every role but now I'm forced to queue for just one
Honestly just learn to solo the dungeon
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that players solo vet dungeons, certainly not vet DLC dungeons.
Also, if you can legit do every role, then just queue as tank and play as a tank. It's the role that you'd be filling anyway if you queue for all 3.
Tanking is boring. And "almost" every dungeon save for the DLC dungeons and some that have certain mechanicscan be soloed. Even then you aren't actually soloing it you just carry everyone else
Sounds like the real answer is not class nerfs to classes or skills. Looks like a dungeon restructure is needed.
Easy - Would be today's normal difficulty - Awards Green quality gear.
Normal - Increased difficulty (Leaning more towards today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Blue quality gear.
Veteran - Even higher difficulty (Harder than today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Purple quality gear.
Hard Mode Veteran - The most difficult setting - Awards Yellow quality gear.
If dungeons are so easily soloed, then the game is obviously not difficult enough.
I would love to see these players solo a Veteran March of Sacrifices. Until I see a video of them actually doing it - I call b.s.
Not to mention it would take way too long even if they could manage it (which again: I seriously doubt). So I would not listen to these posters suggesting that everyone just needs to learn to solo dungeons. It's ridiculous and absurd advice.
The base line dungeons are fairly easy for high level characters. But that is older content. The DLC dungeons still provide plenty of challenge for even veteran players.
I believe that when people refer to soloing the content they are referring to the traditional vet mode dungeons, the new DLC can be soloed by the very best players but, as you note, it takes a long time. Even the old DLC (WGT etc) is quite tough to solo on vet and again, is more time consuming than dropping group and tolerating the 15 minute penalty.
If I get a run of weak groups when aiming for the daily XP bonus I go to random normal, as I know I can carry anyone through anything the game throws at me. But preferably I'll run the pledges with guildies or friends as I know I can then accomplish HM.
Perhaps that's what they were referring to.
I just wanted to dispense with this notion that soloing was a reasonable alternative for people who wanted to avoid joining pug groups. Because it isn't. There are a lot of dungeons that are very difficult and time-consuming to solo.
Edited by Jeremy on October 3, 2018 9:04AM0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »kathandira wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »How about git gud? TBH I hate what they did to the group finder. I carry more than 10 sets on one character so I can fill every role but now I'm forced to queue for just one
Honestly just learn to solo the dungeon
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that players solo vet dungeons, certainly not vet DLC dungeons.
Also, if you can legit do every role, then just queue as tank and play as a tank. It's the role that you'd be filling anyway if you queue for all 3.
Tanking is boring. And "almost" every dungeon save for the DLC dungeons and some that have certain mechanicscan be soloed. Even then you aren't actually soloing it you just carry everyone else
Sounds like the real answer is not class nerfs to classes or skills. Looks like a dungeon restructure is needed.
Easy - Would be today's normal difficulty - Awards Green quality gear.
Normal - Increased difficulty (Leaning more towards today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Blue quality gear.
Veteran - Even higher difficulty (Harder than today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Purple quality gear.
Hard Mode Veteran - The most difficult setting - Awards Yellow quality gear.
If dungeons are so easily soloed, then the game is obviously not difficult enough.
I would love to see these players solo a Veteran March of Sacrifices. Until I see a video of them actually doing it - I call b.s.
Not to mention it would take way too long even if they could manage it (which again: I seriously doubt). So I would not listen to these posters suggesting that everyone just needs to learn to solo dungeons. It's ridiculous and absurd advice.
The base line dungeons are fairly easy for high level characters. But that is older content. The DLC dungeons still provide plenty of challenge for even veteran players.
I believe that when people refer to soloing the content they are referring to the traditional vet mode dungeons, the new DLC can be soloed by the very best players but, as you note, it takes a long time. Even the old DLC (WGT etc) is quite tough to solo on vet and again, is more time consuming than dropping group and tolerating the 15 minute penalty.
If I get a run of weak groups when aiming for the daily XP bonus I go to random normal, as I know I can carry anyone through anything the game throws at me. But preferably I'll run the pledges with guildies or friends as I know I can then accomplish HM.
Perhaps that's what they were referring to.
I just wanted to dispense with this notion that soloing was a reasonable alternative for people who wanted to avoid joining pug groups. Because it isn't. There are a lot of dungeons that are very difficult and time-consuming to solo.
Agreed, especially as the main reason you may PUG is the random XP, so the Finder (when it works) will fill it with four people anyway.
Being able to solo any/most things is a good skill to have in your back pocket in case you are hamstrung by a PUG full of wet lettuce. i.e. Certainly on normal (and I suggest the non-DLC vets), any high CP player should be able to shrug off his inadequate team members and just obliterate the 4-man content by swapping in a few useful skills. e.g. even on normal it's still useful IMO to be able to taunt if you get a fake tank as it brings a bit of order to things, and if you slot Vigor you can just crack on. So I guess in that context, one is 'soloing', as you're doing all the work while the others run about like headless chickens spamming bow light attack and trying to do damage while womblng about in heavy armour...1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »FlyingSwan wrote: »kathandira wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »How about git gud? TBH I hate what they did to the group finder. I carry more than 10 sets on one character so I can fill every role but now I'm forced to queue for just one
Honestly just learn to solo the dungeon
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that players solo vet dungeons, certainly not vet DLC dungeons.
Also, if you can legit do every role, then just queue as tank and play as a tank. It's the role that you'd be filling anyway if you queue for all 3.
Tanking is boring. And "almost" every dungeon save for the DLC dungeons and some that have certain mechanicscan be soloed. Even then you aren't actually soloing it you just carry everyone else
Sounds like the real answer is not class nerfs to classes or skills. Looks like a dungeon restructure is needed.
Easy - Would be today's normal difficulty - Awards Green quality gear.
Normal - Increased difficulty (Leaning more towards today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Blue quality gear.
Veteran - Even higher difficulty (Harder than today's Vet difficulty) - Awards Purple quality gear.
Hard Mode Veteran - The most difficult setting - Awards Yellow quality gear.
If dungeons are so easily soloed, then the game is obviously not difficult enough.
I would love to see these players solo a Veteran March of Sacrifices. Until I see a video of them actually doing it - I call b.s.
Not to mention it would take way too long even if they could manage it (which again: I seriously doubt). So I would not listen to these posters suggesting that everyone just needs to learn to solo dungeons. It's ridiculous and absurd advice.
The base line dungeons are fairly easy for high level characters. But that is older content. The DLC dungeons still provide plenty of challenge for even veteran players.
I believe that when people refer to soloing the content they are referring to the traditional vet mode dungeons, the new DLC can be soloed by the very best players but, as you note, it takes a long time. Even the old DLC (WGT etc) is quite tough to solo on vet and again, is more time consuming than dropping group and tolerating the 15 minute penalty.
If I get a run of weak groups when aiming for the daily XP bonus I go to random normal, as I know I can carry anyone through anything the game throws at me. But preferably I'll run the pledges with guildies or friends as I know I can then accomplish HM.
Perhaps that's what they were referring to.
I just wanted to dispense with this notion that soloing was a reasonable alternative for people who wanted to avoid joining pug groups. Because it isn't. There are a lot of dungeons that are very difficult and time-consuming to solo.
Agreed, especially as the main reason you may PUG is the random XP, so the Finder (when it works) will fill it with four people anyway.
Being able to solo any/most things is a good skill to have in your back pocket in case you are hamstrung by a PUG full of wet lettuce. i.e. Certainly on normal (and I suggest the non-DLC vets), any high CP player should be able to shrug off his inadequate team members and just obliterate the 4-man content by swapping in a few useful skills. e.g. even on normal it's still useful IMO to be able to taunt if you get a fake tank as it brings a bit of order to things, and if you slot Vigor you can just crack on. So I guess in that context, one is 'soloing', as you're doing all the work while the others run about like headless chickens spamming bow light attack and trying to do damage while womblng about in heavy armour...
Well I can't argue with you there. Having a self sufficient character capable of soloing the content you are pugging would certainly come in handy during an incompetent group.
But if you are pugging more difficult content like veteran DLCs though that's not a realistic option and you are going to have to depend on your other group members actually being capable of performing the role they signed up for.Edited by Jeremy on October 3, 2018 9:30AM1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Today I have tried to get my random daily dungeon done...17 times...and yet every single time it has been rendered not possible due to one [or more] pricks showing up in as fake role [on vet mind you..like..wtf] as you can picture it is frustrating to no end...but..all is not lost, I have an idea on how to fix it...introducing
ROLE EFFECTS: when you are in a dungeon under a certain role you are given certain buffs [and debuffs] to make you suitable for your *** job
Healer: -80% damage done, +30% major/minor buff duration on self and targets +15% healing done
Tank: -50% damage done, +10% less damage taken, +taunt on all heavy attacks, +60% more resources gained on heavy attack
DPS: +5% damage done, +tether [basically a synergy that can be used to drag them back to the rest of the group in the event t hey run off past all the mobs...like an ***]
result: Unless you are suited for the role you queue as, you're just going to get slapped with debuffs and have a bad time [to the point where you might as well not bother]
if you guys can think of a method that's a little less heavy handed while also being this effective at keeping the fakes way, then lets hear it.
Why should everyone be penalized with crappy debuffs because you choose to use random dungeon and don't like the consequences. Want to know something? There could have been real healer, real tank, etc. and you still could fail the dungeon from pathetic coordination and/or DPS. Explain how those debuffs would change any of that. Oh they won't and will make it worse.
If they implemented this system, I'd quit tanking.2 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fake-dps is way more common than fake tanks/healers though. Or when fake-dps dies to mechanics or because standing in stupid, than blames the healer for not doing his/hers job
But sure, I have crossed ways with a few Regeneration spammers a.k.a fake-healers as well.
I actually like the idea of role effects in general. But not the way it's suggested by OP. It should be executed in a way that makes groups want to bring a healer and proper tank, because the role effect system rewards that's setup.
This one OP suggesting does the complete oppose, makes healers even more useless in a group.1 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeaaah, I’m not on board with the vote kick idea, seeing that people could abuse it and kick low level players or something.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Two ways to deal with fake roll SNIPshit:
1. deal with it and hard carry/cover missing roles as needed.
2. votekick.
No bizarre scaling buffs/debuffs needed.0 -
deleted008293✭✭✭✭The only fix to this fake role thingy is to actually re balance the content in a way that a dd cannot tank by any means nor over dps (burn) everything before anyone could react. As for healers they should actually play a more serious role than just throw some resources and healing once in a while. This could be translated into... More mobs/bosses HP, increased damage and sadly longer dungeons as you will require more time to deal with every particular group of mobs and also go through mechanics.
From my own experience fake roles in random normal should not matter as long as you don't end up with 4 tanks in the team. ^^
In veteran... well unless its DLC or some other heavy demanding dungeons some are fairly easy to be played even without a tank. But this would require you to work more.0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate fake roles but I'd hate this even more. Sorry.
Ok, and what do you hate about it? the fact that it would make fake roles suffer horribly while not really effecting those that are doing the role proper? or the fact that it won't let you dart off in a dungeon? I mean I did state quite clearly that said effects would only be applied to you WHILE YOU ARE IN THE DUNGEON
The fact that I can't queue with friends with 3 or 4 DPS maybe?
If you and your group of dps are such bad arses that the ground trembles at your passing, then walk your butt to the dungeon. Or use a wayshrine to travel into it. Or teleport there through the map.
I think the idea has merit, and should be examined and considered.
Think of it this way - the wrobler came up with the shield cast time nerf as a thing to support the need for healers in a group. I don’t think that is going to have much of an impact because of how many one-shot mechanics there are, and the side effects may be substantial. So how many more of these wrobler ideas do you want to be implemented?
@Tasear
The OP’s idea is simple, elegant, and targets the issue with surgical precision while leaving ZERO balance impacts as a side effect across the rest of the game. It doesn’t impact pvp at all. It doesn’t impact overland play at all. Pre-made groups would be unchanged.
Actually, I do see a side effect. The people that chase harder difficulties could cross-role as a way to make the content more challenging than mere vet hard mode on the fly, without the gold cost of removing champ points or dealing with junk gear. If a group of friends has mastered a dungeon, then if everyone chooses a bad role for the character then suddenly the dungeon becomes a struggle again.Xbox NA0 -
abigfishy✭✭✭✭✭Horrible idea.
17 times in a row I find very hard to believe. I pug almost every day and meed a fake less than 1/6 times.
Sometimes when I PUG I have to do more than one role, so why cripple me?
For example earlies this week my L30 tank was in a PUG with some really bad DPS so I tanked and did DPS at the same time. Most fights I was dealing 40-60% of the damage for the entire group while keeping the boss taunted and keeping myself alive and it still took ages to do the dungeon and you want to nerf me more?Level 50 Characters
USA
Odette Skullcrusher Nord DK EP Tank
Hannah Smithee Breton Templar DC Healer
Charlotte of the Wild Bosmer NB EP DPS
Rabbath Amman Dark Elf Sorc EP DPS
Lovely Twinkle High Elf Sorc AD Tank
Nepith Dark Elf Warden EP Healer
Tupac Shakoor Redguard Sorc DC Tank
Faire the Last Snow Elf Altmer Warden EP Ice Staff Tank
EU
Soul-Shriven Breton Sorc DC DPS
Makush gro-Shurgal Orc DK DC Tank
Cleopatra Tharn Imperial Sorc EP Healer
Daenerys Targaryin Nord Templar DC Healer
Zar Saarshar Khajiit NB DC Thief
Celrith High Elf Sorc EP Assassin
Falcar Dark Elf NB DC Necromancer
Myriam Blaylock Breton NB EP Vampire
Nivrillin Wood Elf NB DC Werewolf1 -
Meld777✭✭✭✭✭Some time ago I suggested a solution based on punishment, but, honestly, I love the proposed idea even more!
What @notyuu proposed is
1. very easy to code/implement! Just add it to the buff/debuff list that you get when you queue with group finder (currently only spell/weapon damage).
2. perfect! It enforces correct roles without punishing anyone EXCEPT the people actually looking to cheat group finder queue AND it rewards you for the correct role.
3. Significantly improves PUG experience (additional buffs). Make it only work when queued with group finder. If you make a custom group and port into dungeon/trial manually, the role buffs/debuffs shouldn't apply.
I can't state how perfect this solution is!
@ZOS_GinaBruno please implement it NOW and give that man a medal and a lifetime subscription!
Though, I would simplify it a lot:
Healer: -80% damage done, +10% healing done
Tank: -80% damage done, +10% physical and spell resistances
DD: +10% damage doneEdited by Meld777 on October 3, 2018 1:32PMMaelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor
Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+
nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM
PC EU2 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »So, if the DPS suck, then this just punishes the Tank. Yeah, I'd take less damage, except it would be way less than 10%, because of how mitigation stacking. So I'd still be looking at picking up the rest of the party after their dead.
On the other side you would basically be immortal and wouldn't need any shard ever with +60% more resources. Stack that with Fang Lair +30% - Thats basically 90% more per Heavy attack.
It would kinda break tanking in 4 man teams.Edited by karekiz on October 3, 2018 1:27PM0
