usmcjdking wrote: »

The last thing this game needs is more bleeds, oblivion damage, undodgeable attacks or anything that generally ignores defenses.

usmcjdking wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The last thing this game needs is more bleeds, oblivion damage, undodgeable attacks or anything that generally ignores defenses.

No it doesn't. Didn't you read what I said? The DoT is already reduced via mitigation because its strength is derived from the damage dealt from Scatter Shot. Having the DoT become poison damage is having it reduced by your target's resistances twice.

I read and fully understand your request. There are plenty of skills that get charged defensive values twice and, in my opinion, you haven't justified or given enough practical reason as to why this particular attack shouldn't be.

Daus wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Hey they got to justify the new dk passive right?

The DK passive has no effect on this DoT.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Hey they got to justify the new dk passive right?

The DK passive has no effect on this DoT.

So it's a poison skill that doesn't get a cost reduction?

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

DDuke wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

Your joking ? I run 30k resists, full impen, with impen also on my shield and most snipes are always above 5k at least. I have met you in pvp and you hit me around 10k multiple times. I think the game has enough bleeds. Untill bleeds actually have a counter other than being a super heal bot I don't think adding more to pvp is a good thing.

Nope.

10k is actually pretty low for my build, Asylum Snipes are like 15k minimum on a medium armor build for instance.


If the snipe deals 10k damage unblocked it means my total burst is around 17-18k'ish, surviving that (with 25k+ health it's no problem) and then blocking pretty much means game over for the bow build if you're also running sets like Troll King & have that 6k weapon damage (from Fury/Legion) Vigor/Rally ticking every second.

The one time I met you outside Black Boot you also got hit by a siege at the same time if I recall correctly, high mitigation targets are usually a big no no for bow builds (and most of the other burst oriented builds in the game).

I've hit players who aren't blocking for as little as 3k with a snipe (this was one of those 50k+ health dark cloak magblades so no things such as Magma/Corrosive Armor either).

DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

Your joking ? I run 30k resists, full impen, with impen also on my shield and most snipes are always above 5k at least. I have met you in pvp and you hit me around 10k multiple times. I think the game has enough bleeds. Untill bleeds actually have a counter other than being a super heal bot I don't think adding more to pvp is a good thing.

It would have been a 28 meter applied bleed as well attached to a 2100 cost CC that heals you/repositions you. All the other bleeds are melee based, with both direct/dot based dmgs, one healing you with a HOT and the other granting a shield.

Bleed was not the right call, but poison isn't either. 50% Physical dmg might be better, can at least scale off front bar automaton and work for stam sorcs looking for a passive dot for implosion.

Also, does it crit? Based on bleeds that have similar procs, those crit even though proc sets are supposed to not crit. So your 50% off 10k is now 5k, has a chance to deal a 1.8-1.9 modifer. And since impreg got nerfed (as some in this thread successfully championed for lol) Most will only get a 4k resistance to crit dmg (1.58) resulting in a 1.22 modifer off 1.8/1. 32 off 1.9. 5k divided by 2 seconds is 2500 each proc. 2500 times 1.32 = 3300 each proc that ticks twice if in melee range. 12 seconds possible based on the distance, resulting in a tooltip of 15000 dmg.

If it crits, I think it is fine and in line with similar procs.

"(2 Items) Weapon Critical
(2 Items) Scatter Shot applies a bleed poison dmgafter a delay that deals 40% 50%of your initial attack every 2 seconds for 4 seconds. The duration increases if you are further away from your target to a maximum of 12 seconds."

There's a few other item sets that apply bleed damage, even from range:

Savage Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Your Light and Heavy Attacks rend flesh, causing your enemy to bleed for 1000 Physical Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
^a very strong noCP set btw... bleed damage is dealt instantly every light attack

Pillar of Nirn
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 2,000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 8,000 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Razor Shot doesn't crit. Not the last time I tested atleast, I'll go see on PTS.


I just hate it when ZOS misses golden opportunities to tone down tank builds.

DDuke wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

Your joking ? I run 30k resists, full impen, with impen also on my shield and most snipes are always above 5k at least. I have met you in pvp and you hit me around 10k multiple times. I think the game has enough bleeds. Untill bleeds actually have a counter other than being a super heal bot I don't think adding more to pvp is a good thing.

It would have been a 28 meter applied bleed as well attached to a 2100 cost CC that heals you/repositions you. All the other bleeds are melee based, with both direct/dot based dmgs, one healing you with a HOT and the other granting a shield.

Bleed was not the right call, but poison isn't either. 50% Physical dmg might be better, can at least scale off front bar automaton and work for stam sorcs looking for a passive dot for implosion.

Also, does it crit? Based on bleeds that have similar procs, those crit even though proc sets are supposed to not crit. So your 50% off 10k is now 5k, has a chance to deal a 1.8-1.9 modifer. And since impreg got nerfed (as some in this thread successfully championed for lol) Most will only get a 4k resistance to crit dmg (1.58) resulting in a 1.22 modifer off 1.8/1. 32 off 1.9. 5k divided by 2 seconds is 2500 each proc. 2500 times 1.32 = 3300 each proc that ticks twice if in melee range. 12 seconds possible based on the distance, resulting in a tooltip of 15000 dmg.

If it crits, I think it is fine and in line with similar procs.

"(2 Items) Weapon Critical
(2 Items) Scatter Shot applies a bleed poison dmgafter a delay that deals 40% 50%of your initial attack every 2 seconds for 4 seconds. The duration increases if you are further away from your target to a maximum of 12 seconds."

There's a few other item sets that apply bleed damage, even from range:

Savage Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Your Light and Heavy Attacks rend flesh, causing your enemy to bleed for 1000 Physical Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
^a very strong noCP set btw... bleed damage is dealt instantly every light attack

Pillar of Nirn
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 2,000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 8,000 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Razor Shot doesn't crit. Not the last time I tested atleast, I'll go see on PTS.


I just hate it when ZOS misses golden opportunities to tone down tank builds.

I'll save you the time. It doesn't crit.

Yeah, logged on PTS to test that and a few other things.

1. DoT ticks from Maelstrom 2H are still critting
2. Razor Shot is mitigated twice by resistances (first the initial hit and then the ticks) - makes it super important to stack penetration on bow build

So the Maelstrom 2H leaves open some questions:

1. It's been working like that since Orsinium was released, so probably intended. Why don't those DoT ticks (or even Crit Rush/Stampede initial hit!) proc enchants?
2. If Maelstrom 2H DoT ticks crit... why don't Razor Shot? An oversight? Intended?

I ventured out to find answers... only to get more questions

DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

Your joking ? I run 30k resists, full impen, with impen also on my shield and most snipes are always above 5k at least. I have met you in pvp and you hit me around 10k multiple times. I think the game has enough bleeds. Untill bleeds actually have a counter other than being a super heal bot I don't think adding more to pvp is a good thing.

It would have been a 28 meter applied bleed as well attached to a 2100 cost CC that heals you/repositions you. All the other bleeds are melee based, with both direct/dot based dmgs, one healing you with a HOT and the other granting a shield.

Bleed was not the right call, but poison isn't either. 50% Physical dmg might be better, can at least scale off front bar automaton and work for stam sorcs looking for a passive dot for implosion.

Also, does it crit? Based on bleeds that have similar procs, those crit even though proc sets are supposed to not crit. So your 50% off 10k is now 5k, has a chance to deal a 1.8-1.9 modifer. And since impreg got nerfed (as some in this thread successfully championed for lol) Most will only get a 4k resistance to crit dmg (1.58) resulting in a 1.22 modifer off 1.8/1. 32 off 1.9. 5k divided by 2 seconds is 2500 each proc. 2500 times 1.32 = 3300 each proc that ticks twice if in melee range. 12 seconds possible based on the distance, resulting in a tooltip of 15000 dmg.

If it crits, I think it is fine and in line with similar procs.

"(2 Items) Weapon Critical
(2 Items) Scatter Shot applies a bleed poison dmgafter a delay that deals 40% 50%of your initial attack every 2 seconds for 4 seconds. The duration increases if you are further away from your target to a maximum of 12 seconds."

There's a few other item sets that apply bleed damage, even from range:

Savage Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Your Light and Heavy Attacks rend flesh, causing your enemy to bleed for 1000 Physical Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
^a very strong noCP set btw... bleed damage is dealt instantly every light attack

Pillar of Nirn
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 2,000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 8,000 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Razor Shot doesn't crit. Not the last time I tested atleast, I'll go see on PTS.


I just hate it when ZOS misses golden opportunities to tone down tank builds.

Zeromaz wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, bow is already oversaturated with poison damage: Lethal Arrow (guaranteed Poisoned status effect proc), Poison Injection, Acid Spray... this set dealing poison damage doesn't really bring anything new to the table where as bleed damage could've helped bow builds against high mitigation tanks (against which they struggle a lot).

Your joking ? I run 30k resists, full impen, with impen also on my shield and most snipes are always above 5k at least. I have met you in pvp and you hit me around 10k multiple times. I think the game has enough bleeds. Untill bleeds actually have a counter other than being a super heal bot I don't think adding more to pvp is a good thing.

It would have been a 28 meter applied bleed as well attached to a 2100 cost CC that heals you/repositions you. All the other bleeds are melee based, with both direct/dot based dmgs, one healing you with a HOT and the other granting a shield.

Bleed was not the right call, but poison isn't either. 50% Physical dmg might be better, can at least scale off front bar automaton and work for stam sorcs looking for a passive dot for implosion.

Also, does it crit? Based on bleeds that have similar procs, those crit even though proc sets are supposed to not crit. So your 50% off 10k is now 5k, has a chance to deal a 1.8-1.9 modifer. And since impreg got nerfed (as some in this thread successfully championed for lol) Most will only get a 4k resistance to crit dmg (1.58) resulting in a 1.22 modifer off 1.8/1. 32 off 1.9. 5k divided by 2 seconds is 2500 each proc. 2500 times 1.32 = 3300 each proc that ticks twice if in melee range. 12 seconds possible based on the distance, resulting in a tooltip of 15000 dmg.

If it crits, I think it is fine and in line with similar procs.

"(2 Items) Weapon Critical
(2 Items) Scatter Shot applies a bleed poison dmgafter a delay that deals 40% 50%of your initial attack every 2 seconds for 4 seconds. The duration increases if you are further away from your target to a maximum of 12 seconds."

There's a few other item sets that apply bleed damage, even from range:

Savage Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Your Light and Heavy Attacks rend flesh, causing your enemy to bleed for 1000 Physical Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
^a very strong noCP set btw... bleed damage is dealt instantly every light attack

Pillar of Nirn
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 2,000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 8,000 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Razor Shot doesn't crit. Not the last time I tested atleast, I'll go see on PTS.


I just hate it when ZOS misses golden opportunities to tone down tank builds.

I'll save you the time. It doesn't crit.

Yeah, logged on PTS to test that and a few other things.

1. DoT ticks from Maelstrom 2H are still critting
2. Razor Shot is mitigated twice by resistances (first the initial hit and then the ticks) - makes it super important to stack penetration on bow build

So the Maelstrom 2H leaves open some questions:

1. It's been working like that since Orsinium was released, so probably intended. Why don't those DoT ticks (or even Crit Rush/Stampede initial hit!) proc enchants?
2. If Maelstrom 2H DoT ticks crit... why don't Razor Shot? An oversight? Intended?

I ventured out to find answers... only to get more questions

Does this mean the Razor Shot dot will proc enchants?