The real solution to Movement Speed

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

ZoS screwed up when they added the Swift trait. Rather then trying to fix the mess they made, they are now nerfing everything else instead.

The real solution to Movement Speed is to put Swift onto the Major/Minor system. Running one piece of Swift jewelry grants you Major Expedition. Running a second piece of Swift jewelry grants you Minor Expedition. This means you will gain the most out of lower investment, just like CP. If you want to invest a little more there is still an advantage because with 2 pieces you will have Major and Minor Expedition, but then running a 3rd piece gains nothing. It will also stop the already high Movement Speed classes like Warden and StamSorc from gaining such problematic Movement Speed bonuses.

This will stop the over the top Movement Speed while still giving classes access to tools their kit might be missing

RouDeR · October 2018

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

Merlin13KAGL · October 2018

So you want constant uptime of 30% movement speed increase, on everyone? Because that would be the net result.

A single piece taking place of a full 5 pc set is absurd. A second piece taking the place of a second full 5 pc is equally absurd.

You haven't thought this through very long.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

Merlin13KAGL · October 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

@RouDeR I'm going with option two, at this point.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

You have made step one in college comp. Statment, now if you could move on to step 2 reasoning. How is my logic flawed, how am I trolling?

Without reasoning behind your conclusions, then I suspect you are the one attempting to troll.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

@RouDeR I'm going with option two, at this point.

I again ask why? Why is this trolling? How is this not a better solution than gutting classes with no gap closers ability to close the gap?

Merlin13KAGL · October 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

@RouDeR I'm going with option two, at this point.

I again ask why? Why is this trolling? How is this not a better solution than gutting classes with no gap closers ability to close the gap?

Everyone has access to gap closers.
You're wanting to fix an issue with select high mobility builds (builds built for speed boosts) by giving those boosts to every player out there. Do you not see the issue with this?
Before you try to counter argue, the net result, with rare exception would be that everyone (everyone with JC, anyway) would run one, if not two swift.

So instead of a handful of problem builds, everyone would become a problem build.
And the 3rd piece renders an entire skill line essentially useless.

Joy_Division · October 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

@RouDeR I'm going with option two, at this point.

I again ask why? Why is this trolling? How is this not a better solution than gutting classes with no gap closers ability to close the gap?

Because you are granting every single character in the game permanent access to Major expedition for the trade-off cost of 900 magicka/stamina

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Could add, full speed sneak as third piece bonus

RouDeR wrote: »

OP you are terribly low on the Logical part, or you are just a PRO Troll

@RouDeR I'm going with option two, at this point.

I again ask why? Why is this trolling? How is this not a better solution than gutting classes with no gap closers ability to close the gap?

Because you are granting every single character in the game permanent access to Major expedition for the trade-off cost of 900 magicka/stamina

As it is on Live right now every class DOES have acces to Major Expedition level of speed via Swift Jewelry, and a few classes can stack rediculously beyond this. Making it so they don’t need to burn Stamina to the level of speed of Sprint. That’s the “no cost resource” currently happening.
No class that currently has Major Expedition would give up the skill because those skill have wanted other effects. StamDen, Breserk; StamSorc, Hurricane’s Damage; DK, pull; Channeled Acceleration's Minor Force; etc.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

The problem is, was and will continue to be sprint. Particularly when it's speed is increased by orc passive and medium passive, and when it's both it's the real problem. Swift probably needed a little tuning, but the fact that an orc gets 50% movement speed from sprint and an orc wearing 5 medium gets 65% from sprint is the problem.

Sprint is the highest % of the movement speed problem and there was a problem before swift was added... Swift just made it more of a problem, as it moved every orc or every medium wearer into the stratosphere of speed. It made every orc that wears medium require 1 piece of swift to cap, and every orc medium wearer that's a warden or stamsorc to not even need swift to cap.

Speed cap should be achievable, but it ought require building for it.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem is, was and will continue to be sprint. Particularly when it's speed is increased by orc passive and medium passive, and when it's both it's the real problem. Swift probably needed a little tuning, but the fact that an orc gets 50% movement speed from sprint and an orc wearing 5 medium gets 65% from sprint is the problem.

Sprint is the highest % of the movement speed problem and there was a problem before swift was added... Swift just made it more of a problem, as it moved every orc or every medium wearer into the stratosphere of speed. It made every orc that wears medium require 1 piece of swift to cap, and every orc medium wearer that's a warden or stamsorc to not even need swift to cap.

Speed cap should be achievable, but it ought require building for it.

So from, your view point, the change isn't going to effect anything at all because Orcs are still going to cap out easy anyway even with all these changes. Meanwhile all the changes are nuking everything else, like MagDen who relied on Movement Speed to make the build even possible since its the Lowest Damage class in the game.

With that being said, it sounds like the solution would be just to make Swift not effect Sprint at all, or possibly just rearranging when the Orc passive is applied, or how Movement Speed is calculated.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

This is either a joke or a really bad idea. If you could get 30% from one jewelry trait, EVERYONE would run it. You would not only increase the average player speed in this game (needs to go the other direction), but you would also render a lot of skills near useless.

Now I agree, that I am not sure they have thought these changes through either. Stam sorcs in medium armor can still cap themselves. Stam sorcs in heavy armor can cap themselves with 2 of the new swift traits. Other stam medium armor uses (no minor expedition) will be able to cap themselves with 2 of the new traits. Other stam heavy armor uses will be able to nearly cap themselves if they go 5 heavy 2 medium and run three swift traits. None of this is assuming you get the 10% from the new Steed mundus or are an orc, either basically means you can get away with two less swift traits.

At least on live, everyone can get to the speed cap. Next patch, stamina will be there, but magic wont. Perhaps makes sense from a lore perspective, but not from a balance perspective where stam is already dominate.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem is, was and will continue to be sprint. Particularly when it's speed is increased by orc passive and medium passive, and when it's both it's the real problem. Swift probably needed a little tuning, but the fact that an orc gets 50% movement speed from sprint and an orc wearing 5 medium gets 65% from sprint is the problem.

Sprint is the highest % of the movement speed problem and there was a problem before swift was added... Swift just made it more of a problem, as it moved every orc or every medium wearer into the stratosphere of speed. It made every orc that wears medium require 1 piece of swift to cap, and every orc medium wearer that's a warden or stamsorc to not even need swift to cap.

Speed cap should be achievable, but it ought require building for it.

So from, your view point, the change isn't going to effect anything at all because Orcs are still going to cap out easy anyway even with all these changes. Meanwhile all the changes are nuking everything else, like MagDen who relied on Movement Speed to make the build even possible since its the Lowest Damage class in the game.

With that being said, it sounds like the solution would be just to make Swift not effect Sprint at all, or possibly just rearranging when the Orc passive is applied, or how Movement Speed is calculated.

It's what I'm saying. They missed the mark by not understanding (or listening to proponents of the problem) that most of their problem are related to a meta grouping that takes advantage of things.

The bulk of the problems with speed are centered around that grouping. They barely need swift to achieve those speeds (and in some cases don't even need it).

Swift merely made it easier for more to get there and expose it as a problem. It was already a problem... With these changes it just puts it back to less of a problem, but still a problem.

SodanTok · October 2018

Sometimes its good ZoS listens so little to suggestion from forum posters.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is either a joke or a really bad idea. If you could get 30% from one jewelry trait, EVERYONE would run it. You would not only increase the average player speed in this game (needs to go the other direction), but you would also render a lot of skills near useless.

Now I agree, that I am not sure they have thought these changes through either. Stam sorcs in medium armor can still cap themselves. Stam sorcs in heavy armor can cap themselves with 2 of the new swift traits. Other stam medium armor uses (no minor expedition) will be able to cap themselves with 2 of the new traits. Other stam heavy armor uses will be able to nearly cap themselves if they go 5 heavy 2 medium and run three swift traits. None of this is assuming you get the 10% from the new Steed mundus or are an orc, either basically means you can get away with two less swift traits.

At least on live, everyone can get to the speed cap. Next patch, stamina will be there, but magic wont. Perhaps makes sense from a lore perspective, but not from a balance perspective where stam is already dominate.

When you are actually sprinting to get to Movement cap thats a good thing. The problem isn't Sprinting, its the fact that a Medium Stam running swift with an Expedition buff doesn't need to sprint at all to move at a Speed similar to sprint. They are spending nothing to get that speed.
I agree you should be able to get there, but you should have to work for it. And thats not currently the way it is. If you think 1 Piece of Swift should be Minor, and 2 Piece Major than fine

My StamDen in 5 Heavy, no Swift, Major Expedition and The Warrior
Walk Speed - 3.90 m/s
Sprint Speed - 5.28 m/s

My StamDen in 7 Medium, 3 Swift, Major Expedition, and the Steed
Walk Speed - 4.95 m/s
Sprint Speed - 6.78 m/s

No need to Sprint to move at the same speed if I cheese. This is the problem. Not Major Expedition uptimes.
Instead, ZoS is yet again homogenizing everything and its completely screwing over of builds like MagDen and StamSorc