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Can you please NOT go nuclear on movement speed nerfs
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Loralai_907✭✭✭✭✭
✭You mean we aren't all looking forward to moving at a glacial pace through Cyro? I know I personally love taking all of my life to get anywhere /s
That being said, if they need to tone things down fine, but I don't particularly like them being heavy handed about things like this.PC-NA - formerly, mommadani907Guild: Weeping Angels - Co-GMTwitter: @ Loralai_907 several Alt accounts....CP 1700+Active characters:Fauna Rosewood ( Bosmer Stam DK - Master Crafter/AD)///Loralai Darknova (Drunken Zombie Bosmer Stam Sorc - PvP/AD)Lilith Darknova ( Dunmer Mag DK - Master Crafter - PvP/AD)///and roughly 1billion alts2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could have sworn in the 9.25 meeting notes they said major expedition was not a problem, and here they go nerfing major expedition across the board.
The specifically called out potions are on the chopping block too.
"Player Speed
ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender, especially when it was additive to other speed boosts and Forward Momentum. The reps did not agree that the Major Expedition was too strong. It was mentioned that diminishing returns may be a better way to address the issue than flat out nerfs as it is the stacking of speed that is the primary issue."
Here is ZOS:
- we want to slow you all down, because its difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities.
- Major expedition is too strong
- swift is too strong, and primary cause of it
- Forward Momentum is second to swift as cause of speed out of control
Here are the reps:
- Agreed, but be careful what you change
- we do not agree ME is too strong.
- stacking of speed an issue, we suggest diminishing returns over flat nerf.
Basically it comes down to this:
- zos softly notices the game can't function with the hitbox they have.
- zos can't fix hotboxes without major edits to code
- ZOS think they can quickly fit a fix by nerfing all sources
- Reps noticed the tomfoolery and tried to suggest something else that might work better.
- ZOS listens, but probably thinks it would take less time to nerf ALL speed bonues instead of adding diminishing returns.
My feedback:
- LOLMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual6 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »It was not swift, it was the combination of it with major expedition and other speed sources. 100% uptime major expedition from potions had much less trade-off than running 3x swift had, where you had to sacrifice 3 jewelry traits, that's like 2500-3000 max resource sacrificed for speed. Don't think that will be worth it anymore for a mere 6% at all. Another entry for the dead-trait collection
Yep, they basically ruined something that made the game a little more interesting in the choices-with-tradeoffs department. Again. Sigh...
There was nothing interesting about the combination of swift w/ major exp on stamina.
I love the tradeoff argument. While somewhat true and I understand where people are coming from... I don't really agree because swift was so damn strong it was nearly a must have in the end. I have seen horrible players outplay me simply because I couldn't keep up with their positioning due to having a physical disability (was using a controller, and was forced to switch to a mouse which i can't move as quickly at all either) and high latency (200+ at all times).
Swift was so bad that EVERYONE had it. Everyone having something doesn't exactly indicate tradeoff or balance. It indicates overpowered. Barely anyone was using other traits if not for PvE or only for a Single piece of jewellery in PvP.
I'm a stamina main and i vote Swift and Swift pots OP. I agree however with the momentum + speed stacking argument. That's exactly what it was. If speed was multiplicative instead of additive, it would've been much better. If speed had a softcap with diminishing returns, it would've been much better. Next thing you should've done, ZOS, was buff to shuffle, and NO nerf to Momentum. The goal was to bring overall SPEED down. That doesn't work if you nerf momentum. The only thing it does: It becomes an annoyance. It doesn't help, it doesn't really change a thing other than spamming the momentum button more often.
I also agree with the swift potion + swift trait + momentum stacking. Here all I have to say is... You should've just nerfed swift pots to the regular 10.4 second duration on other "strong" effects of potions. Like Detection/Immovability/Ravage etc. That would've been more than enough as well. THIS IS WHERE I WOULD AGREE WITH THE TRADEOFF ARGUMENT. Basically what i'm trying to say here... All the things together just made the game shite.
The way you handled this was not right. But whatever.
It feels like you have devs that get way too high or drunk at the office, ZOS.Edited by Nyladreas on October 1, 2018 10:16PM0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭It was not swift, it was the combination of it with major expedition and other speed sources. 100% uptime major expedition from potions had much less trade-off than running 3x swift had, where you had to sacrifice 3 jewelry traits, that's like 2500-3000 max resource sacrificed for speed. Don't think that will be worth it anymore for a mere 6% at all. Another entry for the dead-trait collection
Furthermore, the already short major expedition buffs from skills where really rarely used for just the speed because they were already so short, while the buff was much more readily available from potions. The upcoming speed potion nerf next week would have been enough to cause some sort of balance here and make the speed skill buffs a little more attractive maybe, but the way it is in the patch notes, this classical ZOS round-house-nerf just kills it off completely.
This person gets it0 -
moosegod✭✭✭Swift wasn't the problem. Yes it was complained about since it's addition but it's because of how well it paired with forward momentum. I'm glad to see the forward momentum nerf, it was well needed. However, the swift nerf makes me sad because I used it on magicka builds as well because they rarely have an option to remove snares so swift compensated for that along with major expedition. RIP my speedy mag builds.1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Meanwhile every Orc that's a warden or stamsorc wearing medium armor has now laughed so hard because now no one can catch them...
The real problems with the speed epidemic were well past speed cap anyways.
30%(major expedition)+10%(minor expedition)+65%(sprint, orc 10%,, 5 piece med armor 15%)=105% in heavy armor they were at 90%. That's without swift at all. It's also unchanged by these nerfs except for major expedition durations.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It was not swift, it was the combination of it with major expedition and other speed sources. 100% uptime major expedition from potions had much less trade-off than running 3x swift had, where you had to sacrifice 3 jewelry traits, that's like 2500-3000 max resource sacrificed for speed. Don't think that will be worth it anymore for a mere 6% at all. Another entry for the dead-trait collection
Furthermore, the already short major expedition buffs from skills where really rarely used for just the speed because they were already so short, while the buff was much more readily available from potions. The upcoming speed potion nerf next week would have been enough to cause some sort of balance here and make the speed skill buffs a little more attractive maybe, but the way it is in the patch notes, this classical ZOS round-house-nerf just kills it off completely.
Swift was the issue...no one complained about speed problems before it was introduced. Players are able to stack base movement speed to unreasonable levels which is the problem.
Yeah you keep repeating this over and over again. That wont make it true. Heavy armor builds running around with permanent expedition isnt something new to the game. Its literally one of the main reasons why people picked and still pick heavy over medium. With swift at least you do sacrifice something. What exactly do you lose by running speed pots? They come along with the strongest effects you can possibly get.
Health pots, crit pots, vitality pots...the list goes on...
Yeah, if only you could get other good effects with speed pots. Oh wait....
Lets also not pretend that these changes won't affect medium armor players more than heavy armor players. Medium armor depends on mobility more than heavy armor does, and these changes are only going to push more people towards heavy armor. In an era where people want the devs to stop pushing people towards heavy armor...this is the wrong way to go about it.
That's an issue with medium armor. Aka it should be more mobile by itself. It shouldn't need speed pot crutches to be mobile. However being able to run heavy and stay at speed cap indefinitely without even using any abilities is an issue and the fact that medium sucks is not a justification to keep it as is.
I do believe however that they went way overboard. I'd much rather that they nerfed speed pots and FM and make swift multiplicative and then actually buff major expedition class abilities. As usual tho they completely missed the point and butchered the classes again.0 -
tamrielwinner✭✭✭expedition changes across the board are heavy-handed and unnecessary. it is clearly a stamina issue and is mostly related to new swift jewelry, which most every stamina uses.
forward momentum gets bad when it comes packed in with other sources of speed like 1 or 2 swift.0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I could have sworn in the 9.25 meeting notes they said major expedition was not a problem, and here they go nerfing major expedition across the board.
The specifically called out potions are on the chopping block too.
"Player Speed
ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender, especially when it was additive to other speed boosts and Forward Momentum. The reps did not agree that the Major Expedition was too strong. It was mentioned that diminishing returns may be a better way to address the issue than flat out nerfs as it is the stacking of speed that is the primary issue."
Here is ZOS:
- we want to slow you all down, because its difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities.
- Major expedition is too strong
- swift is too strong, and primary cause of it
- Forward Momentum is second to swift as cause of speed out of control
Here are the reps:
- Agreed, but be careful what you change
- we do not agree ME is too strong.
- stacking of speed an issue, we suggest diminishing returns over flat nerf.
Basically it comes down to this:
- zos softly notices the game can't function with the hitbox they have.
- zos can't fix hotboxes without major edits to code
- ZOS think they can quickly fit a fix by nerfing all sources
- Reps noticed the tomfoolery and tried to suggest something else that might work better.
- ZOS listens, but probably thinks it would take less time to nerf ALL speed bonues instead of adding diminishing returns.
My feedback:
- LOL
I wouldnt be mad if class reps would quit this mess. I personally would be happy cause this would show ZOS even more that they are introducing changes that nobody wants and are just bad for the health of the game.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭have they ever not nerfed anything by smashing it with a hammer? zos doesnt fine tune.0