I voted the last option, although Gilliam obviously does play.

4 seconds is basically trash for a buff.

NotEdwin wrote: »

The speed cap is definitely the problem here, lower it by changing Battle Spirit and there won't be any issues. With these changes it hurts magicka characters too who only ran 1 or 2 swift for some extra mobility.

My feelings exactly.

DDuke wrote: »

I think all of these changes were warranted, especially the Forward Momentum one.


Now they have room to buff the mobility of medium armor & light armor by other means (light armor already got "Grace" passive to reduce snare effectiveness by 28%), for example by adding snare/root removal on Streak or buffing Shuffle to match Forward Momentum's 4s immunity, changing Athletics passive from sprint speed to movement speed etc etc.


There is a problem when heavy armor builds can move exactly as fast as medium/light armor builds while also having semi-permanent snare/root immunity.

But couldn't that problem have been solved without touching sources of speed that were not contributing to targeting issues?

Magdens used Bird of Prey, not stam.

I'm against Streak getting snare/root removal, and I'm a mag sorc main. It would simply overload the skill and make snares pointless against sorcs when they should be one of the best counters to the class.

Sorcs need better mobility to compensate for the shield nerfs, and ZoS goes and nerfs one of their only decent sources.

100% agree with forward momentum and a potential Athletics change. At this point, immunity on Shuffle should just be baked into medium passives. Like roll dodge grants snare immunity every x seconds.

The only good change was arguably FM. Swift is debatable, and the changes to skill sources of Major Expedition are very questionable, primarily because they enabled magicka builds to gain mobility, albeit at a greater cost and to a lesser level of effectiveness.

As a solo main the potential pot changes are annoying since it basically forces you back to 2h/bow. Most other builds were only made viable solo due to movement speed pots. It's killing diversity for solo while not even touching ball groups. Sure I can solo on a 2h/1h&shield build, but it's going to require building tanky since LoS will become less reliable. That or run a bow back bar.

Recremen wrote: »

I'm really not seeing the need to mess with speed at all. If you want to be fast stack speed until you're satisfied. If you're slower than your enemy and see that they're drawing you into a situation more advantageous to themselves, you don't have to engage. You aren't entitled to a kill just because you built for open-field fights.

It has more to do with targeting issues. The logic ZoS gave is really the secondary issue, but yes I agree people seem to think they are entitled to kills. If the person runs, let them run.

There were issues in BGs as well but there are really ways to fix it.

This feels very similar to the Defile changes to counter Healing. The extreme builds will suffer the least whereas the builds that were actually balanced the most will be the most affected by this change. Blanket nerfs are a reoccurring issue with ZoS, when they should be targeting extremes.

If they stopped blanket nerfing, game probably could have been balanced patches ago. It's just laziness that perpetuates further incompetence.

FM and speed pots did need an adjustment. Swift also needed a gentle nerf, not the thrashing nerf it got.

Everything else was overkill and yet another broad stroke of terrible homogenization.

Recremen wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

I'm really not seeing the need to mess with speed at all. If you want to be fast stack speed until you're satisfied. If you're slower than your enemy and see that they're drawing you into a situation more advantageous to themselves, you don't have to engage. You aren't entitled to a kill just because you built for open-field fights.

It has more to do with targeting issues. The logic ZoS gave is really the secondary issue, but yes I agree people seem to think they are entitled to kills. If the person runs, let them run.

There were issues in BGs as well but there are really ways to fix it.

This feels very similar to the Defile changes to counter Healing. The extreme builds will suffer the least whereas the builds that were actually balanced the most will be the most affected by this change. Blanket nerfs are a reoccurring issue with ZoS, when they should be targeting extremes.

If they stopped blanket nerfing, game probably could have been balanced patches ago. It's just laziness that perpetuates further incompetence.

I agree with most of your points but I'm extremely hesitant to call it lazy or incompetent. They do an excellent job for the vast majority of the game and even these issues where some things seem to overperform are simply by degrees, not game-breaking orders of magnitude. If we settle down and look at it objectively, people are still having fun and doing well even without operating 100% within the current meta.

I used to think that but this patch was the last straw. Whoever thought a cast time on shields was viable clearly has never played the game.

Nerfing Magicka mobility when stamina mobility is the issue is incompetence. And I literally just posted on how pretty much any of the positive change that occurs was actually suggested by players.

Above indicates incompetence.

And I know, statistically this is likely to happen. However, if you really read the forums you can easily get a grasp of the people who actually know what they're talking about.

Now lazy may be a little more fuzzy. A lot of it likely has to do with time constraints, budgets and financial pressures. So let me replace lazy with impatience. They aren't willing to make the proper incremental changes or put in the work for actual change. Instead they go for surface changes and hope to fix the problems.

Personally I would still call it lazy, especially if you consider how they attempt to balance via sets as opposed to actually balancing mechanics.

There are hundreds of sets in this game and maybe 1/10th are used by players that know what they're doing. Instead of balancing these sets, they roll out new sets that poorly attempt to counter broken mechanics, in turn creating broken mechanics. Healing too strong? Lets make Defile so strong that the heal builds are turned into normal heal builds and every other build can't heal. Perma blocking? Lets nerf blocking for everybody that doesn't actually invest into blocking. Sorcs have too much burst and CC on frags? Lets make the damage and CC unavoidable on Cage.

Incompetence and laziness.

All the positive changes were player suggested. All the poor changes were strongly advised against by players.

And when I say players, I refer solely to those who provide mathematical and/or objective posts.

Solariken wrote: »

FM and speed pots did need an adjustment. Swift also needed a gentle nerf, not the thrashing nerf it got.

Everything else was overkill and yet another broad stroke of terrible homogenization.

What exactly is the issue with speed pots?

In duels/1v1's your arguably better off with any other Major Buff.

In ball groups, you get Major Expedition from rapids more than pots.

Pots was pretty much the last thing that made non-bow/streak solo builds viable in open world. These builds will still work, but they will be more niche. Essentially, without speed pots, every non-sorc/nightblade is going to play like a magDK solo.

This is my perception of the effect of speed pots. I genuinely fail to see the issue outside of stacking Major Exp with Swift and the resulting targeting issues.

While I had seen the writing on the wall concerning the swift trait, I can't believe they actually went ahead and simply gutted it for everyone in the process. A 40% nerf on gold value is way to much imho and pretty much renders it useless for anyone that used it within reason. It hat tradeoffs to begin with and while I agree that it could be taken to extremes (like everything), it still is hit to hard with this nerf.
I was just beginning to enjoy my stamplar with 2 swift traits and he didnt feel like a snail any more. But no, we can't have an easy change like lowering the speed cap or (novel thought) just adjust it via battlespirit....would have been "too easy", right? We can only nerf with a broad hammer...

I have been playing since Beta and I never ever felt so angry about an upcoming change. Even when they nerfed my magicka templar into oblivion a while back.
And I wonder if we will get a 46 pages thread now for these changes too. But wait, this doesnt concern magsorcs, right...guess we are good then. Moving on...

/edit: and i of course meant to vote "Other"....

Jaraal wrote: »

Why reduce the duration of Major Expedition on the armor sets? You have to actually kill someone to get it to proc. Fix the targeting issues or reduce the overall speed if you're worried about speed procs. These sets were actually useful to people who play werewolves and don't have access to their Rapids. Garbage now.

I actually forgot about the set changes. Poor decision, especially on VO.

Keep changes. L2FP everyone.

Nobody really cared about it until the Jewelry Crafting system came along, bringing the Swift trait with it.

Reverting the changes would be a step int he right direction. Leave the durations as they were and focus on nerfing the Swift Trait, FM, and the overall movement speed cap.

If they must keep these current nerfs, then they should at least adjust the resource costs of the affected skills by making them slightly cheaper to maintain the cost/performance ratio.

Movement speed should be included in Battle Spirit.
Swift trait should be split in two parts, much like Well-Fitted is. Keep the out of combat movement speed untouched. If you are riding on a horse, sprinting, moving on your feet and are not in combat or not casting any skills - feel free to move at full 10% speed. If you are in combat or are casting any skills - cut that 10% to 5%. This should be fair for those that use Swift for crafting, exploring, traveling and other activities and those that are using it in combat can still take full advantage of 10% whenever they actually take some effort and sprint.