Magden rotation difficulty vs. payoff

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Magden's will arguably have the most difficult rotation this upcoming patch.

- They need to manage 3 DoTs, each with different timers
- They need to manage their distance from the target at all times (they suffer a DPS loss if they're too close)
- They need to manage a pet (switching targets amd manually re-spawning when passive is down)
- They need to intersperse a delayed AOE burst between their AOEs and spammable
- They need to make tough skill bar decisions (magdens will likely only be able to have inner light and a destro ability on one bar this patch)

Despite how difficult their rotation is, the payoff is abysmal. They have the lowest DPS in the game, by a country mile.

I don't mind a difficult rotation. It's fun. But there needs to be a payoff for all that effort.

Dymence · September 2018

I can't help but disagree with most of this.

- Managing multiple DoTs with different timers is not something new, something mag DKs and mag NBs are all too familiar with.
- The damage buff based on distance is stupid and no one will ever take advantage of it in raid scenarios. You will get yourself killed standing too far away and out of the group.
- Having played pet sorc I can't say managing a pet is a big deal
- With delayed AOE burst I'm assuming you mean shalks? As far as I know they weren't worth using before (unsustainable and DPS loss) but I don't know about now
- Tough skill bar decisions? Sorc life since forever

Also last I saw magdens were parsing ahead of magsorcs, so much for parsing lower by "a country mile"

I'm not saying magdens are in a good spot balance wise, but they're not going to get balanced off of misinformation and hyperboles

Rukzadlithau · September 2018

Skills need to be adjusted so it doesn‘t entierly revolve around shalks. Shalks are too complicated and rewardless in PvE. I talked about this in your other post. Simple and not game breaking or meta altering adjustments to existing skills would allow for viable diversity.

Anhedonie · September 2018

Effort doesn't match the payoff, I agree.

As for Shalks though, I'm not sure. They used to be unsustainable and always resulted in dps loss on single target, as was mentioned before. But things might change, if they rework this skill or make it cheaper and change this lazy, unimaginitive, eye-gouging animation of farting shalks standing in t-pose.

Drygon · September 2018

Anhedonie wrote: »

Effort doesn't match the payoff, I agree.

As for Shalks though, I'm not sure. They used to be unsustainable and always resulted in dps loss on single target, as was mentioned before. But things might change, if they rework this skill or make it cheaper and change this lazy, unimaginitive, eye-gouging animation of farting shalks standing in t-pose.

This, I'd rather see roots burst from the ground, that would make more sense that those bug farts. We need a better animation to them if we are going to see that skill so much.... Patch afther patch i keep losing faith for the Magden, i sure hope this patch they will make a good change.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Dymence wrote: »

I can't help but disagree with most of this.

- Managing multiple DoTs with different timers is not something new, something mag DKs and mag NBs are all too familiar with.
- The damage buff based on distance is stupid and no one will ever take advantage of it in raid scenarios. You will get yourself killed standing too far away and out of the group.
- Having played pet sorc I can't say managing a pet is a big deal
- With delayed AOE burst I'm assuming you mean shalks? As far as I know they weren't worth using before (unsustainable and DPS loss) but I don't know about now
- Tough skill bar decisions? Sorc life since forever

Also last I saw magdens were parsing ahead of magsorcs, so much for parsing lower by "a country mile"

I'm not saying magdens are in a good spot balance wise, but they're not going to get balanced off of misinformation and hyperboles

They are parsing the same as magsorcs with the bear (which means raid/dungeon DPS will be lower due to pet AI), and significantly below without it.

Sure NBs have to manage uneven timers too, but their DPS is far superior as a result of having a difficult rotation.

Sorcs might have to make tough rotation decisions (debatable), but they never have to decide on a bar without a destro skill (and therefore suffer an 8% DPS loss due to not having the Ancient Knowledge passive). Warden is the only class that can't hit competitive DPS numbers with the destro ultimate (which is what every other class uses as their AK passive trigger). Wardens need to slot a non-ultimate destro ability (that they won't use) on both bars to get the AK passive.

The warden's rotation is complicated because all of those factors are present in a single class. Sure e pet sorc might have to manage a pet, but it doesn't need to manage uneven timers and distance from target too. And a sorc can choose to play without pets. A warden can't. It's still too massive of a DPS loss to discard the bear, and you lose your only group utility (major slayer from Master Architect too).

WrathOfInnos · September 2018

Mag Warden is not the easiest rotation, but it’s definitely less dynamic than Nightblade. With the cost decrease to Deep Fissure I think it is sustainable as a semi-spammable, used every 3s. This will time we’ll with Winters Revenge at 12s, and I recommend choosing the 6s Unstable Wall morph to fit well with these other skills. I do not think it’s worth double casting Swarm to get the damage increase every time, and for a static rotation I just refresh the 10s DoT every 12s. It could be done more dynamically for a slight DPS increase. The bear also works well with a 12s base rotation, since it is typically ready right before the 24s mark. To fill the bear gap every other rotation, the Netch works well, even though 24s is clipping a few seconds off the duration. Any other gaps can just be filled with spammables, with elemental weapon being the best option IMO.

ezio45 · October 2018

i dont think most of this is exclusive to magden, i played one briefly before making it a bank. the problem isnt the rotation the problem is how much damage it does. also that yall cant really benefit from extra dps on light attacks the same way sorc can with lightning staff or dk's with fire. ice dmg passives dont help with light attacks if your not using an ice staff and ice staff offers no dmg buffs. light attacks make up a huge portion of dmg