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Information / Feedback / Ideas for ZoS

Shatterborn
For most Content in the Game for PvE in Solo Situations Roll Dodge is realistically the Main Reason Magic Builds ( Light Armor users ) Live due to the Fact that you can Dodge almost 8 or more Hits with a Single Roll Dodge in Large Pulls. Shields are Hardly used to Tank such Impacts, They are used to Help us Survive as intended but they are no where near as Crazy as the Roll Dodge Technique that’s being Used.
The nerf to Roll Dodge is 100% Necessary, and I do Agree Shields need to be Mettled with but in my Opinion as Someone who Plays both PvP and PvE Content That some of the Hotfixes being applied are too far Drastic and will cause issues in Both Situations.
For Example, I Suggust making Conjured Ward ( and both Morphs ) an Unstackable Shield, This way in PvP they can’t Stack Harness Magicka and Healing Ward with Hardened Ward. This willl Cut Down on the Existing Long Fights for people that Fight these Shield Stackers. Also even Shield Stacking isn’t as Powerfull as Some May Think to Believe when you can just Combine Shield Breaker with Sloads, I’ve Seen Two Sorcs with Imperial Physique that had recently Destroy a Full Group without dying once for an Hour later to be Killed by One person Wearing that Set up.
Realistically there are Counters to these things people just refuse to Use them and Later Complain and Become Snipe Spammers.
On the Note to Shields only Affecting 40% of your Health, This will Cause Severe Issues in Harder PvE Content and with Roll Dodge being Affected I Believe Shields will be Fine as they are Currently because Realistacally with Harness Magicka in PvE giving a 16k Shield for Some and if you are Solo or in a 3 DPS Situation or even a Trail fighting Large Mobs it’s Difficult for Tanks Alone to Gather Everything up Especially when it’s their First few Times doing such Content that DPS and Healers will need to React to Things that can Hurt or One Shot them. With a 16k Shield and Most Adds in Vet PvE Mob Groups hitting 4K or Higher Realistically that Shield is Gone in 4 Hits or Less so we can Either Spam and Waste Reasources ( Wich is not only a DPS Loss it Can be Difficult to Recover from ) or Roll Dodge.

My Suggestion is to make Conjured Ward and Both morphs an Unstackable Shield.
Keep the Nerf going for Roll Dodge to Keep Players from Surviving from 8 or more Hits when Fighting Large Mobs making it easy to Recover and Keeping Pressure as Most Abilities can be used before a Roll Dodge as the Same way Bar Swap Animation Cancelation is Used. That is what Makes most PvP Fights insanely Annoying for most Players.

I Aggree with Zaan’s Nerf to it’s Range and personally wouldn’t mind seeing it Dropped to 6 Meters becuz I believe that is a Set Strongly Suited for Melee Range Magic Builds and is too Powerful for Long Range Builds in Both PvE and PvP Content.

There are Counters to Shields in PvP and for those that Run Groups one or Two People is Enough to Utilize these Options.

I Know Everyone is going Bananas over the Shield Topic but I Hope this Information and Suggestions Help.



Edited by Shatterborn on September 29, 2018 6:59PM
Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Munavar
    Munavar
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    You may be confusing 'Light armor' with 'Medium armor'.

    Those magicka builds in light armor do not have the stamina pools to roll more than 2 or 3 times and that is if they did not have to use block 'recently'.
    Dae - TM
  • Shatterborn
    I Counter that, I can Roll Dodge 3 Times in 4 Seconds on PvE Magic Builds. It’s a Thing, Trust me. Time it Right and It’s Possible.
    And that’s Enough to Continue Pressure.
    Edited by Shatterborn on September 29, 2018 7:09PM
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Munavar
    Munavar
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    I as I stated '3' times (without blocking).
    All this means is that ALL players have the ability dodge up to 3 times (in good conditions).

    The point then becomes that a light armor magicka user is not regenerating that stamina anytime soon to repeat that process. A tristat potion would enable a few times 'quickly' but again that is an 'everybody' condition as well.
    Dae - TM
  • Shatterborn
    Realistically in a PvE Situation if your having to Roll Dodge more then 3 Times in Rapid Successions then The Burn being Applied is Bad or Support isn’t doing Their Job.
    You Would know that and that is what’s being Discussed on the Terms on Shields and Roll Dodge. On Live game you can Be Solo, Run into a Mob and Drop Dots and Apply an ULT While Roll Rodging so many Hits and Easily Continue Pressure and Continue. I have used this Technique to Solo the Last Boss on Veteran Falkreach Hold with a Trails Set up Magic Build.
    Edited by Shatterborn on September 29, 2018 8:47PM
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Shatterborn
    And Magicka Users have ways to Recover Stam Also and Shields help give the Time to do that, Utilizing the Champion Tree is one way. For Example I normally run 19 / 27 Points into Mooncalf to Help recover in these Situations.
    It actually Helps more then Some May Realize.
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Shatterborn
    And For PvP making Conjured Ward Unstackable would Stop Mass Stacking Shields so these Sorcerers will only be able to Stack Harness and Healing Ward which would Eliminate the Long Fights becuz of the Fact that Roll dodge is Also being Nerfed.
    They will lose a Shield along with if it comes to being forced to do a Roll Dodge that Roll Dodge won’t Dodge 8+ Hits. Therefor Survivabity will have to be on Point and Long Fights for this class will most likely not be as Long as they are Now.
    Edited by Shatterborn on September 29, 2018 8:47PM
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Munavar
    Munavar
    ✭✭✭
    Your opening statement:
    . "For most Content in the Game for PvE in Solo Situations Roll Dodge is realistically the Main Reason Magic Builds ( Light Armor users ) Live due to the Fact that you can Dodge almost 8 or more Hits with a Single Roll Dodge in Large Pulls."

    As 'everyone' has access to '3' dodge rolls then everyone can handle the large pulls. (By your own reasoning, it only takes one roll). Given this case, it has nothing to do with light armor magicka users.

    Your example is a sorcerer class stacking various shield abilities in conjunction with the use of dodge mechanic that happens to be in light armor. This setup does not equate to all 'light armor users'.
    Dae - TM
  • Shatterborn
    No Offence but I don’t think you understand the Concept of Survivability that is being Focused here And most of this is more Applied to intense Trail Mob Situations or 4-Man Content and PvP. Most Groups are using MagBlades for most Set Ups becuz of the Shield. Stam is less used due to Most mechanics and High Damage Income that it’s Harder to do Most of the Recent PvE Content.
    What ZoS is Focusing which is why I’ve Suggested Said Ideas and Examples to them in This Post is The Simple Fact that They Don’t Seem to Like Healers being Un-Needed for Most Content, Which Leaves out a Variety and a Role being Left out or Unwanted for Most Players.
    This is why they are Targeting Survivability.
    In Most Recent Content it’s Harder to Play Stamina Builds ( Not Impossible but most of the Community Want to do Things Easy ).
    Also I’m not Saying Everyone because not everyone has the Experience to do These Things, and when Players go Against Challenges or other players that can this is normally an Issue Brought to ZoS’s Attention.
    Roll Dodge is a Technique that Magic Builds or Any Build has Avaliable to them to Help Them Survive and in Live it’s so Powerful.
    Shields help too I’m not Denying that either, I use them when I can and in Moments where the Pressure Applied to me is too much, Roll Dodge is an Easy way to Recover while Applying Pressure Back through animation Canceling.
    Time on Target is the Key to Most PvE Content and the Same Applies to PvP. You Don’t need to Wear Meduim Armor to Utilize a Roll Dodge in Order to Survive.
    Anyways this is not a Post for Arguements so unless you have any Ideas or Questions feel free to make a Post concerning them Relating to this Topic and not my Vaque Examples that Some May not Understand. Thanks
    Edited by Shatterborn on September 30, 2018 11:55AM
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • Shatterborn
    .
    Edited by Shatterborn on September 30, 2018 11:53AM
    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Most Groups are using MagBlades for most Set Ups becuz of the Shield.

    Most groups are using magblades because they suit the current meta being pushed in PVE the most. They offer extremely high single target damage (highest behind stamblade), good cleave damage, great self healing while dealing damage, great sustain, good mobility, can operate completely at range (unlike DK, Templar and Warden), and don't have many statically placed abilities (unlike Sorc, Templar, DK and Warden). Shields play a part, but aren't anywhere near the reason why magblades are preferred currently.
    Stam is less used due to Most mechanics and High Damage Income that it’s Harder to do Most of the Recent PvE Content.

    You are correct here, but to explain a bit further, stam is less preferred due to fights becoming more mobile in newer content. Stam loses a lot of DPS when the boss is moving around a lot, due to two of your main dot's being statically placed (Hail & Caltrops), as well as Trap. Stam also loses a lot of DPS if the player has to move away from the boss for mechanics, due to stam being a heavily melee playstyle. Both of these combined can see stam's DPS be cut by a third to a half in very mobile fights, often leading to mag outperforming in the same fight.

    This isn't so much due to survival being harder on stam (it is), more so that newer content is being designed squarely around a more mobile playstyle, which stam just cannot do. Nerfing mag survival is not going to make stam more enticing to groups, because mag survival wasn't even and has never been the problem. Yes, stam has a harder time sustaining, but that is usually offset by stam having higher single target DPS, in static fights.
    They Don’t Seem to Like Healers being Un-Needed for Most Content

    The problem is they're looking at the wrong thing. The reason why healers aren't needed in most content is squarely due to the prevalence of one shot mechanics in newer content (which cannot be healed through, even by the best healers), and DPS being astronomically high for the top 0.1% of players (just 2 years ago 30-35k was considered stellar DPS, now players are hitting 60-70k in organised groups).

    There's no need to bring a healer in a 4-man group when a 3rd DPS allows you to skip the mechanics that a healer wouldn't be able to heal through, anyways. Or, at the least, will make the fight go far quicker. Like, look at Scalecaller, and the random one-third-of-the-map-is-now-a-one-shot mechanic. No matter how hard they try, a healer is not going to protect their group through that. So why bother, when a 3rd DPS is going to bring an extra 50-70k DPS to the group, and will make the fight go far quicker.

    Nerfing survivability will just makes healers even less relevant, because the mechanics they can't heal through (or barely could heal through before) are now going to hit several times harder.
    In Most Recent Content it’s Harder to Play Stamina Builds ( Not Impossible but most of the Community Want to do Things Easy )

    As I explained above, that's nothing to do with a conscious balance decision made by Zenimax, that's simply the design of the fights.
    Roll Dodge is a Technique that Magic Builds or Any Build has Avaliable to them to Help Them Survive and in Live it’s so Powerful.

    A mag build cannot roll dodge several times in a row without burning all of their stamina, which they may need to roll dodge again.
    You Don’t need to Wear Meduim Armor to Utilize a Roll Dodge in Order to Survive.

    No, but you do need to spec into stamina to have roll dodge be an absolute and reliable avenue for survival, which results in a DPS and sustain loss on magicka builds. Again, a mag build doesn't have the stamina to be able to roll dodge several times in a row without running dry. And if they run dry, then have to roll dodge again, then what? They can't heavy attack to restore stamina quickly, they can't wait as they'll die.
    Anyways this is not a Post for Arguements so unless you have any Ideas or Questions feel free to make a Post concerning them Relating to this Topic and not my Vaque Examples that Some May not Understand. Thanks

    We can critique your opinion. Just as you can critique mine, or anybody else's. As for mine, I am of the opinion that shields are fine as-is. Shields are really the only absolute and reliable avenue for survival when it comes to magicka builds, simply because they don't have the stamina to sustain other avenues. They can't roll dodge out of aoe's several times, nor can they block for extended periods of time, nor can they bash several times in a row.
  • Shatterborn
    For the most part we are basically Aggreeing on everything in a General Sense, I feel like There’s just confusion with Context or maybe how I Word it. For PvE, yes Shields are Perfectly fine and with Roll dodge being Nerfed it Should be Left as is 100%.
    That’s what I’ve been trying to Explain.
    For PvP I feel like Stacking 3 Shields is A bit much and that Making Conjured Ward unstackable would be a Change That should be Considered.
    Players would Still be able to Stack Healing Ward and Harness and I think that’s Fair Enough honestly.
    This change wouldn’t Affect PvE at all and would Stop Those Almost unkillable Three Shield Stacking Sorcerers and Level out Fights because they Shouldn’t be Lasting over an Hour.
    No one Should have to hit Roll Dodge in Rapid Successions on Magic Builds in PvE Content but I do Roll Dodge in 4-Man, Trail Mobs to Avoid an Add that may not have been Pulled or to Avoid 1 Hits or Solo but I Time it so I have a Roll Dodge every third Second. Shields Allow me to Hold Back the Pressure to Regain that Stamina back. You can use Shields while Barswap animation Cancellation and hit Most Abilities During a Roll Dodge for Animation cancellation allowing basically No Loss in Pressure being Applied.
    On the Note you said about the Healers yeah I 100% Agree I’m just saying that’s why many think they are wanting to Adjust unnecessarily in Hopes of Maybe Forcing the Intented Set up on the Community.
    Again most of this is Situational and Vaque so it’s hard to see where I may be Coming from but for the Most part I see what your Saying.

    Patriarch of [The Competent Ones]
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