Jeremy wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In moon hunter keep you are punished if your group passes certain damage thresholds on bosses to quickly. Just have to deal with more potential werewolves. This dungeon is all mechanics and knowing when to drop your ultimate.

The hunt dungeon is more about dps and even then the final boss is just a rinse and repeat mechanic until execute phase.

Actually the previous dlc dungeons are much more difficult (bloodroot forge, fang lair, and falkreath hold). Those dungeon require stronger dps along with following the dungeon mechanic

I would add Scalecaller Peak to that list also. That one is more difficult then the three you mentioned IMHO.

Scalecaller is easy.

I hate moon hunter keep, i've only been there I think 4 times, 3 times on vet and once on normal. All while trying to complete my daily dungeon. And to be honest I've yet to complete the dungeon. I end up leaving frustrated on that boss which pounces.

Just everything about the place seems like it is built to annoy the casual player. I'm sure I will get it done soon enough, I don't go out of my way to go in there, i just play random dungeons for the xp bonus.

On my last try (which was normal) we almost killed the werewolf boss that pounces on people. Then after that it was wipe wipe wipe. I got called out by the healer because she was insisting I use crushing shock, but I don't actually have crushing shock, I don't use that ability in my rotation and I checked my ability sheet and I actually picked the other morph for that skill.

All the wipes were blamed on me for "being a DD that does not have crushing shock XD" lIke I am so sorry that I was not aware I would need crushing shock in the future on a a difficult boss while I am still noob at the game learning how things work, I am sorry I spent my skill point on the wrong morph, a spell I don't even use anyway.

It's one of the things that annoys me about this game, they add all these fancy mechanics to these dlc bosses, but only give us 2 small bars. And we need all this utility to deal with the said mechanics.

Sorry that turned into bit of a rant.

I really feel that lack of mechanics in non DLC dungeons is the issue here. Most players faceroll through them and then become shocked by DLC dungeons which then become “hard”. I feel like this is why lots of people refuse to do DLC stuff (and drop immediately).

I would love the combat group or dungeon team to consider a revamp of older dungeons; maybe leave the three in the first zones non-mechanic, but then start adding them and slowly ramping them up so that players understand that dungeons are a group effort and will slow down to a) learn the mechanics and slow down to b) let the healers and tanks learn the mechanics so that the DLC dungeons won’t be as scary or continually ignored.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's got a handful of *** mechanics, (Awesome job on removing waves of trash mobs and replacing them with the stupid hedge maze "mechanic" ) but it's doable.

Starlock wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Say big thanks to nolifers and elitists who have static groups and 65k+ dummy dps.

What does this have to do with this topic?

Unecessary insults they made aside, it’s pointing out a truth in that dlc dungeons are considerably more challenging than other dungeons in the game. They were not designed with normal players in mind.

If only "normal" players had a mode they could select to make things more reasonable?

High DPS gets punished in this dungeon (MoS too) to an extent, so the requirement for super DPS is not a requirement at all.

These last several dungeons were built with the idea that you have to be aware, coordinated, and communicate as a group.

Nothing wrong with those things. Nothing wrong with the DLC dungeons (they are optional expansions) having a little punch, either.

ZoS has yet to release any content that can't be cleared by "normal" players in normal difficulty. If they had, you might have an argument here.

Jeremy wrote: »

But when I did it on normal it did seem vicious with lots of instant death. Every time I saw a werewolf pounce (which was frequently) it was usually followed by a dead player I had to raise.

And therein lays the problem.

That mechanic (just like with the first boss) has to be interrupted by a groupmate. There is no block, mitigate, or heal through it.

It's intended to be an awareness check and a group synergy requirement.

MoS has something similar with players getting pinned, as does Bloodroot, Fang Lair, and Scalecaller.

Your group has to play as a group.

Again: I was not talking about the boss you had to interrupt in that comment.

I was talking about the regular werewolves in the normal trash pulls. They were the ones doing the pounce that was causing the instant death. And that was in normal mind you.

Having regular mobs that can one shot players is unusual and yes - vicious (which is the word I used to describe it). I haven't seen that since the minotaurs in Falkreath. Whether you think it's wrong or right doesn't really have anything to do with my comment.

My point was it's a vicious dungeon - because even on normal mode my party was dropping like flies.

Then I suspect the same group would have difficulty in some of the base game 4 man content, as well.

The Dire wolves and WW's hit hard, sure, but pounce and conals can be dodged and blocked. Heavier hitting adds can be taunted and tanked.

It sounds as if the groups you happened upon lacked overall experience, and likely just weren't ready for these, which by all standards, are intended to be the next step up as far as dungeon tiers are concerned.

You pay, you play. Until they put some kind of reasonable requirement for accessing the DLC content, something beyond just having paid for it, this kind of thing will continue.

I suspect if you enter with a PuG group that has cleared a good portion of the base game 4 man, and have legitimate builds for their role, you'd breeze through to the end without issue.

Maybe. But I doubt it, on Veteran anyway.

I just got done finishing Veteran Bloodroot Forge, Veteran Scale Caller Peak, Veteran Falkerath Hold, Veteran Fang Lair, and Veteran Imperial City prison over the last couple of days (all in pug groups). So I have "experience" and the damage in Moon Hunter Keep (normal mind you) still took me off guard. It was pretty vicious. So I can only imagine what Veteran is like.

I tried a Veteran march of sacrifices today and the archer trash was nearly one-shotting me and the first boss Ursus instant killed me with a single one of her heavy attacks while blocking and kept obliterating our tank in much the same fashion. Though it's possible the tank just wasn't prepared for the dungeon, I'll concede, but still, it was plenty difficult.

So I've concluded the new Wolf Hunter dungeons are hard. They aren't easy and I'm not too proud to admit it. They are going to be impossible or nearly so for the average pug group, so this OP makes a legitimate point.

This is an issue nearly every time they release a new DLC dungeon. Pug groups eager to try out the new content are slaughtered in them. I'm not saying make them easy. But they could stand to be watered down a bit so as to allow more room for error.

The developers of this game would also do well to stop listening to the "elitist" who come onto these forums bragging about how everything is too easy for them (I'm not implying you are one of these b.t.w.). It's causing them to go a little over board with their dungeons lately, because they are certainly not easy - especially on Veteran mode. And even their normal modes are getting out of control with all the instant death every time you make a slight mistake or God forbid don't roll or block in time.

To say these dungeons are being developed with only the top tier players in mind is quite wrong. There are even several places where you get punished for having too high DPS.

As for the white werewolf being the main topic of this thread honestly makes me rather confused. It is probably the easiest boss in the entire dungeon. Tank and spank boss. You dps boss - you kill adds - you bash boss when he jumps - repeat. Occassionally tank has to move his ass and drag the boss over lightning pools dropped by adds. Doesn't really strike me as rocket science. It's one of the most plain fights in the entire dungeon.

Jeremy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's got a handful of *** mechanics, (Awesome job on removing waves of trash mobs and replacing them with the stupid hedge maze "mechanic" ) but it's doable.

Starlock wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Say big thanks to nolifers and elitists who have static groups and 65k+ dummy dps.

What does this have to do with this topic?

Unecessary insults they made aside, it’s pointing out a truth in that dlc dungeons are considerably more challenging than other dungeons in the game. They were not designed with normal players in mind.

If only "normal" players had a mode they could select to make things more reasonable?

High DPS gets punished in this dungeon (MoS too) to an extent, so the requirement for super DPS is not a requirement at all.

These last several dungeons were built with the idea that you have to be aware, coordinated, and communicate as a group.

Nothing wrong with those things. Nothing wrong with the DLC dungeons (they are optional expansions) having a little punch, either.

ZoS has yet to release any content that can't be cleared by "normal" players in normal difficulty. If they had, you might have an argument here.

Jeremy wrote: »

But when I did it on normal it did seem vicious with lots of instant death. Every time I saw a werewolf pounce (which was frequently) it was usually followed by a dead player I had to raise.

And therein lays the problem.

That mechanic (just like with the first boss) has to be interrupted by a groupmate. There is no block, mitigate, or heal through it.

It's intended to be an awareness check and a group synergy requirement.

MoS has something similar with players getting pinned, as does Bloodroot, Fang Lair, and Scalecaller.

Your group has to play as a group.

Again: I was not talking about the boss you had to interrupt in that comment.

I was talking about the regular werewolves in the normal trash pulls. They were the ones doing the pounce that was causing the instant death. And that was in normal mind you.

Having regular mobs that can one shot players is unusual and yes - vicious (which is the word I used to describe it). I haven't seen that since the minotaurs in Falkreath. Whether you think it's wrong or right doesn't really have anything to do with my comment.

My point was it's a vicious dungeon - because even on normal mode my party was dropping like flies.

Then I suspect the same group would have difficulty in some of the base game 4 man content, as well.

The Dire wolves and WW's hit hard, sure, but pounce and conals can be dodged and blocked. Heavier hitting adds can be taunted and tanked.

It sounds as if the groups you happened upon lacked overall experience, and likely just weren't ready for these, which by all standards, are intended to be the next step up as far as dungeon tiers are concerned.

You pay, you play. Until they put some kind of reasonable requirement for accessing the DLC content, something beyond just having paid for it, this kind of thing will continue.

I suspect if you enter with a PuG group that has cleared a good portion of the base game 4 man, and have legitimate builds for their role, you'd breeze through to the end without issue.

Maybe. But I doubt it, on Veteran anyway.

I just got done finishing Veteran Bloodroot Forge, Veteran Scale Caller Peak, Veteran Falkerath Hold, Veteran Fang Lair, and Veteran Imperial City prison over the last couple of days (all in pug groups). So I have "experience" and the damage in Moon Hunter Keep (normal mind you) still took me off guard. It was pretty vicious. So I can only imagine what Veteran is like.

I tried a Veteran march of sacrifices today and the archer trash was nearly one-shotting me and the first boss Ursus instant killed me with a single one of her heavy attacks while blocking and kept obliterating our tank in much the same fashion. Though it's possible the tank just wasn't prepared for the dungeon, I'll concede, but still, it was plenty difficult.

So I've concluded the new Wolf Hunter dungeons are hard. They aren't easy and I'm not too proud to admit it. They are going to be impossible or nearly so for the average pug group, so this OP makes a legitimate point.

This is an issue nearly every time they release a new DLC dungeon. Pug groups eager to try out the new content are slaughtered in them. I'm not saying make them easy. But they could stand to be watered down a bit so as to allow more room for error.

The developers of this game would also do well to stop listening to the "elitist" who come onto these forums bragging about how everything is too easy for them (I'm not implying you are one of these b.t.w.). It's causing them to go a little over board with their dungeons lately, because they are certainly not easy - especially on Veteran mode. And even their normal modes are getting out of control with all the instant death every time you make a slight mistake or God forbid don't roll or block in time.

I've had plenty of Tanks die to Ursus on Normal Mode and I blame the fact the base game normal modes are so easy that they think going into a dungeon with 25k Health and not blocking a heavy attack is ok because its normal and nothing one shots you in them. These dungeons are set up in a way that you actually need to think and be able to act in a timely manner and not just burn down everything with Godly DPS. I'd gladly run vMoS or vMHK a hundred times before I ever set foot in vFL or vBRF ever again since I found them to be the easiest DLC dungeons added in a long time (I've been around to see every DLC dungeon added and vWGT and vICP at launch have these dungeons beat by a long shot in terms of difficultly, so did every other DLC dungeon upon their release), they just require you to actually follow mechanics and have minimum expectations of the group (Having an actual Tank, or at least someone that can dodge roll a lot, being able to work as a group to interrupt mechanics, etc).

People have become too coddled by the lack of difficulty on normal mode that they simply blank out until reality slaps them in the face with a brick and then they'd rather complain rather then think about why they got slapped. I personally would like ZOS to go back and touch up on the old dungeons to be on par with the Wolfhunter normal mode dungeons, at least then people would be somewhat more prepared for Vet Dungeons if and when they actually joined in and not always have subpar players that can't even be bothered to bash/dodge/block a single thing and are completely unprepared for the end results.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In moon hunter keep you are punished if your group passes certain damage thresholds on bosses to quickly. Just have to deal with more potential werewolves. This dungeon is all mechanics and knowing when to drop your ultimate.

The hunt dungeon is more about dps and even then the final boss is just a rinse and repeat mechanic until execute phase.

Actually the previous dlc dungeons are much more difficult (bloodroot forge, fang lair, and falkreath hold). Those dungeon require stronger dps along with following the dungeon mechanic

I would add Scalecaller Peak to that list also. That one is more difficult then the three you mentioned IMHO.

Scalecaller is easy.

Scalecaller is fairly simple, at least from a conceptual level, but the mechanics are very unforgiving - especially on the last boss.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In moon hunter keep you are punished if your group passes certain damage thresholds on bosses to quickly. Just have to deal with more potential werewolves. This dungeon is all mechanics and knowing when to drop your ultimate.

The hunt dungeon is more about dps and even then the final boss is just a rinse and repeat mechanic until execute phase.

Actually the previous dlc dungeons are much more difficult (bloodroot forge, fang lair, and falkreath hold). Those dungeon require stronger dps along with following the dungeon mechanic

I would add Scalecaller Peak to that list also. That one is more difficult then the three you mentioned IMHO.

Scalecaller is easy.

The Boss with the petrifying orbs either makes or breaks your group but yeah id say it might be the easiest dlc dungeon.

Toughest to easiest no HM

Bloodroot forge
Fang lair
Falkreath hold
Ruins of mazzaton
Moon hunter keep
White gold tower
(Other wolf dungeon)
Scalecaller peak
ICP

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would like to run wgt again. Ran it twice a year ago a d never went back. But i have cleared bf and rom.

Dungeons for me are rage quit untill i learn then it like wow those are fun.

I'm glad I stumbled across this forum discussion and have found comfort in knowing that i'm not the only one to have suffered at the hands of the white wolf.

I added myself to the group finder and joined a trio that were already in the Keep, but had been abandoned by their tank just before the Lurcher boss in the maze, which should have been my first clue that this DLC dungeon was no mere walk in the, erm, maze.

I should explain, I had at this point only done a couple of dungeons. I'd been playing for a couple of years, but had never bothered with group dungeons until I joined a guild. The first dungeon I went into with the guild was Cradle of Shadows on veteran. Having only played solo pve, I thought that it would be fine to tag along as the 'healer' with a stamplar. After all, you can do that in delves and most other places and just bash your way through, dropping the occasional heal over time or other heal skill, with a bit of brute force and ignorance and be home in time for tea and medals with a few minor scratches.

Well, you can imagine how that went. Honestly, I spent more time dead than alive, and was neither use nor ornament for the team. The part with the teleporting and the torches? I never saw any torches. I knew they must be there, and my guildmates were all over them, but I was just too busy not healing anyone and mostly being dead to notice. Still we got through and I learned a valuable lesson and picked up the relevant achievement. I might have seriously aggravated my guild mates, but I can mend that with time. Or distance. Or grovelling. We'll see.

Anyhow, back in the Keep, my new found team mates and I dispatched the lurker and merrily plodded on. This time, I had taken the role of tank, which is what my stamplar is best suited for. We ploughed through a few rooms without much fuss, and then came upon the white wolf.

Big, isn't she? Quite pretty, too.

At this point, I had no idea of the mechanics needed to get through. I had learned from CoS that they were a thing, but I thought I could just figure them out as I went (only my second dungeon, so still not really up to speed on their significance). So off we went and I taunted and braced, the DPSs did their thing, and apparently we had a healer, although I never felt the benefit.

After the first wipe, one dps quit. We waited for another, and the chap that joined told us about the bash. That helped a lot, but still we couldn't bring the white wolf down. There was lightning everywhere and wolves all over the place, and we were running around and generally being useless.

Several wipes later, we somehow managed to get through. Whether by luck, combined wishfulness, or maybe just the game feeling sorry for us and giving us a pass, I don't know, but we got through. Whatever the way, we did defeat the wolf and then tip-toed into the rest of the keep, dreading what was to come and silently hoping that we could just sneak through to the end.

Surprisingly, we didn't have much trouble then until the final boss (well, our healer quit just before the wizard with the weird coloured symbols and we had to wait for a new one, but apart from that...). The final boss battle seemed to be going well, the boss was taking damage, and we were getting on with the job, but then, at around 20-40% left (boss health) or thereabouts, I noticed that I was the only one standing and suddenly surrounded by several werewolves and a couple of large hungry-looking puppies on chains (I had been tanking the boss, and only the boss, with my back turned - some of you are now nodding sagely, having realised my naivety).

At the time, I thought nothing of it, and away we went again. Same method; same result.

The dps player that joined us at the white wolf battle got a bit annoyed with me and told me to 'ads'. As a newby, that didn't really mean much to me, but he explained that I needed to help them out with the swarm of creatures that spawn periodically throughout the battle (although you can imagine he didn't use those exact words, and who would in a text chat...). We had another couple of goes and finally managed to get through with a great sense of relief and achievement, albeit with a hint of 'that was blind luck, not skill, so you don't really deserve it', but hey, there's always next time. Or Vet.

The whole experience left me wanting to know more about how it should be done, having learned a little bit by going through it, which is what eventually led me here, and now I am armed with tips like pulling the wolf through the AOE, and focussing on ads (which I understand now) instead of just bashing the boss. A few google vidoes under my belt, and I now feel like I could waltz through the dungeon with ease. Or, perhaps get through with a little more dignity than last time.

Entertaining as it was, frustrating as it was, I am glad that there's a part of ESO that you can't simply brute your way through. I like that you have to work as a team, to learn your enemies' tactics and find ways of defeating them, and I like the challenge. I like that you are forced to communicate and cooperate, else get your behind served on a plate.

I don't like that people can just give up and strand you in a dungeon, but hey, that's the group finder for you. Or so I'm learning.

Good luck to all those still trying to conquer your white wolf; hopefully it won't become your personal white whale. It can be done with a bit of prep and the right team, and some determination, or a skin-full of luck.

This is the same boss that stopped my pug group on normal during the Undaunted Event. Went through two tanks, first one noped right out at the start. It was also first time for all of us, they were not all that observant but showed moderate learning ability. After struggling with the spriggins in the hedges on the previous boss, the one shot mechanic, (which are BS in my opinion as a healer), offered little room for learning on this one, and eventually the tank had to log off for the night. I know it's not impossible, but there is a serious gap in player ability out there, even if you personally understand the mechanics.

Not very hard bashing the wolf. I find the shock wardens more annoying.

The next boss after the wolf, that's a major pita with hulking wolves and colored symbols and what not.

My group did it on vet wearing PvP armor with the exception of the tank. It's not impossible lol

MHK is still canser, so it's always worth to post here.

Bash

Imho, in normal dungeons, the one-shot mechanics should go like this :
- Target will get 75k damage (before mitigation)
- If the target would die (which we likely be the case), she instead takes enough damage to make her loose 90 of her max health.
- the remain damage is done as an un-purgeable dot over 5-10 seconds depending on how skilful the mechanic is.