Smokey the Bear needs your help

max_only · September 2018

Only YOU can prevent Warden nerfs.

Friends, snacks, countrymen lend me your ears. It’s not for Valenwood Ear kabobs, but for these harsh Warden nerfs.

When Sorcs and Nbs get a change there are dozens of threads, tears, salt, backlash and sour backwash.

Wardens are facing tough times, and you don’t see us calling for 30% damage reduction and a 50% miss chance on your ultimates.

You don’t see us asking for your health based skills to be changed unnecessarily to a skill no one will use, not even the people who the change is supposedly “for”.

No nerfation without representation!

Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Arctic Blast (morph): This morph now fires a projectile that stuns the target in addition to healing you. It requires an enemy target to cast the ability. This ability also no longer deals damage over time based on your maximum health.

Previously: Envelop yourself in winter winds, healing for 10% of Max Health instantly and an additional 2% Health every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
Enemies in the area will take Frost Damage every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
Deals Frost Damage to nearby enemies.

Personally I think Winter’s Revenge should be the class spammable, similar to Crystal Shards or Mages Fury.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

15 months of neglect and nerfs with no end in sight.

No class has ever been this awful for this long.

geonsocal · September 2018

for some reason, your thread title inspired me to fire one up...

Finviuswe · September 2018

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Lokirules · September 2018

#BuffWardens!

max_only · September 2018

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

DKsUnite · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

15 months of neglect and nerfs with no end in sight.

No class has ever been this awful for this long.

Ummm i would say that mDK being really unplayable from TG until Homestead (i think that's when it's buffs came) is longer

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

DKsUnite wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

15 months of neglect and nerfs with no end in sight.

No class has ever been this awful for this long.

Ummm i would say that mDK being really unplayable from TG until Homestead (i think that's when it's buffs came) is longer

That was only 11 months.

Magdens have been unplayable ever since they launched (June 2017) to now (October 2018), so 16 months.

Literally every single endgame beta tester in Morrowind told them the class could not launch in its current state, and ZOS just ignored all the feedback.

Finviuswe · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

ESO_GOD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

The problem is that the warden hits like a wet noodle without the bear (they hit like a wet noodle even with it slotted, just a slightly firmer, drier noodle). It isn't slotted by choice. It's a necessity.

Finviuswe · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

The problem is that the warden hits like a wet noodle without the bear (they hit like a wet noodle even with it slotted, just a slightly firmer, drier noodle). It isn't slotted by choice. It's a necessity.

Your argument isn't not valid

DKsUnite · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

15 months of neglect and nerfs with no end in sight.

No class has ever been this awful for this long.

Ummm i would say that mDK being really unplayable from TG until Homestead (i think that's when it's buffs came) is longer

That was only 11 months.

Magdens have been unplayable ever since they launched (June 2017) to now (October 2018), so 16 months.

Literally every single endgame beta tester in Morrowind told them the class could not launch in its current state, and ZOS just ignored all the feedback.

Imp. City came out on Aug 31 2015. Homestead came out on Feb 6 2017. That's 17 months

max_only · September 2018

ESO_GOD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

I’m a warden Tank, all points in health. I use the bear when I’m solo, not in group pve or in pvp. Personally I don’t understand why anyone would use the unreliable Ai of the bear in pvp when there are much more effective ultimates to use.

Anyway I’m more interested in what this will do to us in PVE.

Have you tried to play a DD warden without the bear?

Just looking at our skills I can see how weak Wardens would be without their bear. Imagine if your class ultimate missed half the time and was reduced 30%. That’s what we’re talking about here. We have to use both our ultimate slots to use the MAIN FEATURE of our class. Ultimates are big badabooms. If they want to increase the cost of the special maul, or have it heavy attack less often that would be a more reasonable change. Still unnecessary, but more reasonable.

I’m asking you to stand with your Tamrielic brethren and support our big bear butts.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

I’m a warden Tank, all points in health. I use the bear when I’m solo, not in group pve or in pvp. Personally I don’t understand why anyone would use the unreliable Ai of the bear in pvp when there are much more effective ultimates to use.

Anyway I’m more interested in what this will do to us in PVE.

Have you tried to play a DD warden without the bear?

Just looking at our skills I can see how weak Wardens would be without their bear. Imagine if your class ultimate missed half the time and was reduced 30%. That’s what we’re talking about here. We have to use both our ultimate slots to use the MAIN FEATURE of our class. Ultimates are big badabooms. If they want to increase the cost of the special maul, or have it heavy attack less often that would be a more reasonable change. Still unnecessary, but more reasonable.

I’m asking you to stand with your Tamrielic brethren and support our big bear butts.

Liko was getting a ~5% DPS difference with and without the bear in his testing. The gap is definitely a bit smaller now, but bear is still the preferred ultimate. It's also necessary because it procs the Master Architect 5pc bonus, which is the only group utility a magden provides.

TheShadowScout · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

Smokey the Bear needs your help

...I knew it, he's in the dark brotherhood!

Finviuswe · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

In all for Warden's bear nerfs, hopefully we'll never see one in PvP again

Stop fighting pets in pvp. I’m a carebear and even I know you cc or LOS the pet and go for the caster. How do you deal with Sorc pets?

Unless you were joking.

Nope, bein serious

I kind of just don't like the bear in PvP. Other people do, and they are entitled to that point of view. But they disagree with me on this matter.

I don't directly take on the bear and try and fight it. But if you are being targeted by multiple people, and the bear runs in, it can block your enemy (mess up your targeting), distract you, and deal a fair bit of damage.

I consider it a skilless tactic, which if you've read my posts you know I am against. I don't want to tell people how to play the game. It's a personal opinion.

I’m a warden Tank, all points in health. I use the bear when I’m solo, not in group pve or in pvp. Personally I don’t understand why anyone would use the unreliable Ai of the bear in pvp when there are much more effective ultimates to use.

Anyway I’m more interested in what this will do to us in PVE.

Have you tried to play a DD warden without the bear?

Just looking at our skills I can see how weak Wardens would be without their bear. Imagine if your class ultimate missed half the time and was reduced 30%. That’s what we’re talking about here. We have to use both our ultimate slots to use the MAIN FEATURE of our class. Ultimates are big badabooms. If they want to increase the cost of the special maul, or have it heavy attack less often that would be a more reasonable change. Still unnecessary, but more reasonable.

I’m asking you to stand with your Tamrielic brethren and support our big bear butts.

Yeah for sure, it's like, why slot the bear when there are stronger ultis you could use for PvP? For the novelty, most likely.

Anyway, that's just me venting. Probably a huge overreaction. It's important that people are able to use what they want to use. However, still, I strive to protect one's right to voice disagreement about any matter, skill, etc.

I've never attempted to play warden as a DD in PvE. It's something I have a lot of respect for. From what I've heard the bear's damage is over represented in parses compared to the damage it will do against your average boss. Even so, I guess Wardens are still running it.

If this is vital to the enjoyment of the class for a great deal of players, and to the viability of the class, then I would consider this a significant matter.

Hey-- just because the bear will block your target in PvP, doesn't mean it's overperforming. I don't think it's overperforming. I never called for nerfs to it, either. I've even argued for a buff- allow it to remain up while only slotted on one bar. Well that never happened.

The reason I was supportive of such a buff is it is a class identifying skill, and I believe class identity to be important. It's one of the things that makes the game good.

The nerf to the bear ulti's damage is unnecessary, and unwarranted. Such a nerf should not make it to live, for it will only set the class further back in PvE, something that should be the opposite of what ZOS wishes to achieve.

This was a big selling point for the Warden. People were getting very excited for the ulti, and it is unique to the class. Discouraging its use in PvE, does not make much sense at all.

Skullstachio · September 2018

@max_only wrote: »

Only YOU can prevent Warden nerfs.

Friends, snacks, countrymen lend me your ears. It’s not for Valenwood Ear kabobs, but for these harsh Warden nerfs.

When Sorcs and Nbs get a change there are dozens of threads, tears, salt, backlash and sour backwash.

Wardens are facing tough times, and you don’t see us calling for 30% damage reduction and a 50% miss chance on your ultimates.

You don’t see us asking for your health based skills to be changed unnecessarily to a skill no one will use, not even the people who the change is supposedly “for”.

No nerfation without representation!

Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Arctic Blast (morph): This morph now fires a projectile that stuns the target in addition to healing you. It requires an enemy target to cast the ability. This ability also no longer deals damage over time based on your maximum health.

Previously: Envelop yourself in winter winds, healing for 10% of Max Health instantly and an additional 2% Health every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
Enemies in the area will take Frost Damage every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
Deals Frost Damage to nearby enemies.

Personally I think Winter’s Revenge should be the class spammable, similar to Crystal Shards or Mages Fury.

I couldn't "Bear" the thought of my precious slate grey bear getting nerfed, I always thought everything could use more bears.

_Ahala_ · September 2018

We need ice magic so we are more than Stamdens using the wrong morphs

Darkenarlol · September 2018

nerfs alaways feeling bad in general

as for me - bear is clumsy and leaves no ulti optionsdue to double bar so i'll be happy to unslot the bear

and unequip master architect to try something else

(got some flawless runs with bear just for lulz)

anyway my magwardens are just number 3(currently with bear) and 7(pure ice fun build) in my favorite toon list

so i can't feel all that pain magden mains with bears are feeling now... sorry for you guys

Arciris · September 2018

Well, Winter is coming and Bears need to hibernate, right?

So ZOS was taking care of the Bear's welfare and made sure he would get his rest.

Just make sure you're near some cozy cave when you un-slot him for good.

Maybe Spring will bring the Bear back, who knows maybe with some cubs

.

In the meantime, we will miss him dearly.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

nerfs alaways feeling bad in general

as for me - bear is clumsy and leaves no ulti optionsdue to double bar so i'll be happy to unslot the bear

and unequip master architect to try something else

(got some flawless runs with bear just for lulz)

anyway my magwardens are just number 3(currently with bear) and 7(pure ice fun build) in my favorite toon list

so i can't feel all that pain magden mains with bears are feeling now... sorry for you guys

DPS without the bear still isn't competitive. It's better than before, but still nowhere near other classes.

Hostee · September 2018

Fun fact

Smokey the bear has always been “Smokey Bear” and was never actually named “Smokey the bear”

mague · September 2018

Where is the info about the 50% miss chance from ? Thats a joke, right ?

The bear needs to stay at the damage he has right now, He needs a 15% run speed buff while in combat and he needs to be able to make use of the vines. He needs a Y-click on gamepads and he needs to require only one slot. While Inner Fire or Puncture is slotted the bear taunts on use of those. This or Y-click is a taunt before and while in combat.

#GrimBear4TheWin

And while we are at it, the teleporting of the bear after a fight has to go too.

#SaveTheBear

Gargath · September 2018

I'd say warden in pve plays better without bear. None of my 3 alts use bear. Let him hibernate, I don't care. My frost magden already has more magicka pool than my sorc

.

I'd rather see the Bull Netch stamina morph updated - the Major Sorcery removed and Blue Betty's effect, that removes a negative effect from me, applied.

Sevalaricgirl · September 2018

Frankly, ZOS needs to stop nerfing period. If they can't learn to balance by keeping one class like it is and making the other classes better, then fire the guy and get someone who can do that. Sorry but I'm getting sick of seeing balance based on nerfs for PvP that reflect badly on PvE. They are going to ruin the game.

Glurin · September 2018

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

Frankly, ZOS needs to stop nerfing period. If they can't learn to balance by keeping one class like it is and making the other classes better, then fire the guy and get someone who can do that. Sorry but I'm getting sick of seeing balance based on nerfs for PvP that reflect badly on PvE. They are going to ruin the game.

It's not that simple. The reason for the bear nerf is so that they can buff other things to bring warden base damage up and make them less reliant on the bear. If they only did buffs, the bear would just end up that much stronger and the problem would remain. In fact it could very well end up causing other problems, like the bear doing way too much damage all by himself. Not just in PvP, but PvE as well.

phil-yarde · September 2018

Nerfing the bear is a crazy!

Whilst I don't use it in PVP , I love using it in PVE!

The damage output of it seems on par as it is, considering we have to double bar it, and it misses some of the time.

The bear is kind of our identity, it's a shame zos want to push us away from it!

Raammzzaa · September 2018

I really don’t use the bear at all, don’t frequently see it in the content that I play (PvP and vet dungeons), and I had no idea that it was OP...

max_only · September 2018

mague wrote: »

Where is the info about the 50% miss chance from ? Thats a joke, right ?

The bear needs to stay at the damage he has right now, He needs a 15% run speed buff while in combat and he needs to be able to make use of the vines. He needs a Y-click on gamepads and he needs to require only one slot. While Inner Fire or Puncture is slotted the bear taunts on use of those. This or Y-click is a taunt before and while in combat.

#GrimBear4TheWin

And while we are at it, the teleporting of the bear after a fight has to go too.

#SaveTheBear

The 50% miss chance is anecdotal. Trying to fight with the bear and the mob jumps, moves, rubberbands, etc and all his strength goes to waste. He never misses on a dummy parse but he misses so many of his attacks in a real fight.

Also yes I hate that the recent update makes him teleport behind you each time. It’s clunky. I don’t know why they changed it to that, he was pathing okay before that, not perfect but the teleportation doesn’t make it any better.

fierackas · September 2018

Thanks ZoS

Grayfax · September 2018

I thought I was going to miss my bear terribly (a couple of mine that would, just haven't played lately), but my Stamina Warden is actually a blast to play. Still working out the exact specs I want to use... and still have a couple of high level abilities to unlock, but it is faring much better than I ever expected!