Shield Changes

susmitds · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Stamina users don't generally wear light armor.

Stamina at 7/0/0 medium armor has 3.2k more resists exactly than 5/1/1 light armor. That's means exactly 5% extra damage mitigation, that's no deal maker or breaker.

f047ys3v3n · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

I don't know, shields carry over armor resistances now so it's not as bad as all that and this may well prove to be an effective balancing. Certainly,16k health with a 19k shield was the sort of lack of trade off they were seeking to avoid.

For my part, even though I main a sorc, I am willing to wait and see how it plays for a bit before condemning the change. As for the cast time, that would have just wrecked PVE combat all together the way fights are currently designed and any cast time ability in PVP is pretty much worthless as well.

I'd say give it a shot. If it wrecked a 16k health PVP glass cannon with huge shield build you could always just run the cheats ZOS hasn't done anything about in 4 years. Those guys all seem too do just fine and have no offense defense trade off at all.

deLioncourt · September 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

I don't know, shields carry over armor resistances now so it's not as bad as all that and this may well prove to be an effective balancing. Certainly,16k health with a 19k shield was the sort of lack of trade off they were seeking to avoid.

For my part, even though I main a sorc, I am willing to wait and see how it plays for a bit before condemning the change. As for the cast time, that would have just wrecked PVE combat all together the way fights are currently designed and any cast time ability in PVP is pretty much worthless as well.

I'd say give it a shot. If it wrecked a 16k health PVP glass cannon with huge shield build you could always just run the cheats ZOS hasn't done anything about in 4 years. Those guys all seem too do just fine and have no offense defense trade off at all.

I'm not nearly masochistic enough to participate in the ***-fest that is ESO-PvP.

ZOS_JesC · September 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few baiting comments. Please keep comments on topic and constructive. Thank you.

deLioncourt · September 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields.

18k damage, you survive with only 16k health. Seems pretty clear you are.

I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

How is increasing your effective health by 69% useless?

No. I use twilight familiar just as often to try and help keep other people alive during damage heavy sections.

For example, during vHRC when the Warrior is doing his 35% huge AoE damage thing..I would cast shield, continuously hold block, and use the Twilights' heal as needed. Perfectly viable, not ignoring mechanics.

I sacrificed quite a bit of dps in order to stack my shield to be as strong as it is. With either nerf, they're basically saying "you can't do that" in a game designed with the slogan "play it your way."

There are plenty of ways to mitigate the advantages of this build without outright removing it.

DjMuscleboy02 · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields.

18k damage, you survive with only 16k health. Seems pretty clear you are.

I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

How is increasing your effective health by 69% useless?

No. I use twilight familiar just as often to try and help keep other people alive during damage heavy sections.

For example, during vHRC when the Warrior is doing his 35% huge AoE damage thing..I would cast shield, continuously hold block, and use the Twilights' heal as needed. Perfectly viable, not ignoring mechanics.

I sacrificed quite a bit of dps in order to stack my shield to be as strong as it is. With either nerf, they're basically saying "you can't do that" in a game designed with the slogan "play it your way."

There are plenty of ways to mitigate the advantages of this build without outright removing it.

You can still do that.

DocFrost72 · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields.

18k damage, you survive with only 16k health. Seems pretty clear you are.

I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

How is increasing your effective health by 69% useless?

No. I use twilight familiar just as often to try and help keep other people alive during damage heavy sections.

For example, during vHRC when the Warrior is doing his 35% huge AoE damage thing..I would cast shield, continuously hold block, and use the Twilights' heal as needed. Perfectly viable, not ignoring mechanics.

I sacrificed quite a bit of dps in order to stack my shield to be as strong as it is. With either nerf, they're basically saying "you can't do that" in a game designed with the slogan "play it your way."

There are plenty of ways to mitigate the advantages of this build without outright removing it.

I want to instantly kill pvp players with left click. Luckily "play as you want" doesn't mean everything is viable.

You made the comment:

Light Armor wearers have no resistances. The shields gain your resistances. 10% damage reduction of 1 18k hit that would one-shot me? Brings it down to 16.2k Still enough to one shot me. Resistances won't make much of a difference.

You weren't talking about lots of little hits (the mechanic in VHRC is called starfall btw). You were talking about avoiding intended one shots for your health pool. You can still shield and cast twilight now post change.

Max magicka increases the scaling of damage, and shield size. You sacrificed nothing for that ward size, especially since pets don't scale with spell damage.

You mentioned other options though: what other ways could we make shields more reasonable?

Tommy_The_Gun · September 2018

Do we know exactly how this 40% of max health will work ?

Just for an example - lets say that I have 20K health. 40% means that I can have 8K shields. Does that mean that there is a "global" cap for shields so if I cast some dmg shield skills I will never go above 8K shield ?
Or is it just 8K per dmg shield skill ?

Another thing that puzzles me is: how are sets that provide dmg shield work ? For example Para Bellum Set:
"(5 items) Gain a damage shield that absorbs 12040 damage if you have not taken any damage in the last 10 seconds."

If I am only "allowed" to have 8K shields & Para Bellum set gives 12040.. will sets "ignore" dmg shield cap ?

Hateanthem · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

And you think shields are fine when the glass cannon with 16k health is always the last one to die, because of the shields?

Right.

You are the glass cannon. if healers cannot keep you alive, you should die first. Not be the last one standing.

Didgerion · September 2018

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

I assume you talk PVE as in PVP there is battle spirit and it is impossible to get this low HP with food buff.

And if i'm right and you talk PVE then don't forget your Shields have resistance now. that means they can absorb more damage. And think about tanks, how powerful your shields will be on them.

Lord_Eomer · September 2018

All stam toons fan are just trying their best to RIP magicka builds,

Do not worry with current nerfs many will join you as Stam

Vahrokh · September 2018

CompM4s wrote: »

Its not crazy to expect sorcs to give up some damage to help make them be more "tanky". Every other class has to do the same.

This whole "you have to give up on DPS like every other class" and "you should spec into survivability" is a mound of bull.

- First of all, no other class has to give up on DPS, so why only sorcs should? You are NOT going to move stam points into health come next patch, why should we?

- Even going "glass cannon", sorcs DPS today is mediocre and after update 20 they'll lag behind all stamina and most magicka. So, by giving up DPS what shall they achieve, if not to sit out any trial?

- Every single other class brings more utility, buffs and debuffs than sorcs. So, even the excuses about utility are not credible.

- Every single good DPS sorc set has no health. Nor resists, nothing.

- Sorcs regen is the lowest of all classes. We are forced to use Witchmother's Potent Brew or Citrus Fillet which - guess what - bring a loss of 1k-ish health vs non regen foods. So damned us who cannot even do a 6M target dummy parse with blue food, damned us if we do it with regen food because our health loss will make us die.

- In order to be at least mediocre, sorcs must use Zaan nowadays. That is, 8m from the boss like melee. Guess how good it is for a 11k health base class?

- The single health increase comes from pet spec. Yes, exactly the super-bugged, disfunctional, annoying pets that make everyone wipe in trials.
Of course, we get the nerf that requires health but not a bugfix to pets that would give us health!

Hateanthem · September 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Its not crazy to expect sorcs to give up some damage to help make them be more "tanky". Every other class has to do the same.

This whole "you have to give up on DPS like every other class" and "you should spec into survivability" is a mound of bull.

- First of all, no other class has to give up on DPS, so why only sorcs should? You are NOT going to move stam points into health come next patch, why should we?

- Even going "glass cannon", sorcs DPS today is mediocre and after update 20 they'll lag behind all stamina and most magicka. So, by giving up DPS what shall they achieve, if not to sit out any trial?

- Every single other class brings more utility, buffs and debuffs than sorcs. So, even the excuses about utility are not credible.

- Every single good DPS sorc set has no health. Nor resists, nothing.

- Sorcs regen is the lowest of all classes. We are forced to use Witchmother's Potent Brew or Citrus Fillet which - guess what - bring a loss of 1k-ish health vs non regen foods. So damned us who cannot even do a 6M target dummy parse with blue food, damned us if we do it with regen food because our health loss will make us die.

- In order to be at least mediocre, sorcs must use Zaan nowadays. That is, 8m from the boss like melee. Guess how good it is for a 11k health base class?

- The single health increase comes from pet spec. Yes, exactly the super-bugged, disfunctional, annoying pets that make everyone wipe in trials.
Of course, we get the nerf that requires health but not a bugfix to pets that would give us health!

How many players participate in PvP and how many participate in end game trials?

I don't have hard numbers, but I am willing to bet a dollar that more people PvP than run end game progression content.

If you are only going to look at the issue through the lens of less than 2% of the player base, you will never grasp the reasons behind the change.