Shield Changes

deLioncourt

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

Shezzarrine

But it also gains resistances so instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage. It's really not much of a nerf for pve

susmitds

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

deLioncourt

"But it also gains resistances so instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

"But it also gains resistances"

Light Armor wearers have no resistances. The shields gain your resistances. 10% damage reduction of 1 18k hit that would one-shot me? Brings it down to 16.2k Still enough to one shot me. Resistances won't make much of a difference.

"instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

What part of this is a buff?

DMuehlhausen

susmitds wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

Stop talking sense!

Imperial_Voice

So 1 second cast time made the shield "unusable" but suddenly a 1 sec cast time is totally fine so long as it lets you stack up to ridiculous HP levels. Its almost like all the crying was nonsense from the start.

deLioncourt

susmitds wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

How much health should I invest in..in order to make a worthwhile shield?

25k Health is how much you need to get a DMG shield of 10k. If I was running 25k health, I wouldn't bother to bring shields. And a 10k DMG shield is still not worth bringing.

Shezzarrine

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

"But it also gains resistances so instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

"But it also gains resistances"

Light Armor wearers have no resistances. The shields gain your resistances. 10% damage reduction of 1 18k hit that would one-shot me? Brings it down to 16.2k Still enough to one shot me. Resistances won't make much of a difference.

"instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

What part of this is a buff?

More than 10%, how about you do the math before you start complaining about the end of the world. Do you need a sheild that is more than your entire health bar? No you don't, not in any pve content. That's a L2P issue.

deLioncourt

I mean..I guess I should at least be grateful that casting a shield isn't a death sentence now. We can still do it while blocking.

It's just a shame that no one will bother to slot a shield that can be knocked out by someone spitting on you.

Lord_Eomer

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

So 1 second cast time made the shield "unusable" but suddenly a 1 sec cast time is totally fine so long as it lets you stack up to ridiculous HP levels. Its almost like all the crying was nonsense from the start.

It was his criticism to developers that you may never understand!

Lord_Eomer

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

How much health should I invest in..in order to make a worthwhile shield?

25k Health is how much you need to get a DMG shield of 10k. If I was running 25k health, I wouldn't bother to bring shields. And a 10k DMG shield is still not worth bringing.

There is lot of damage to be sacrifice for having a descent shield its better to #DeleteSorcerer

CompM4s

Its not crazy to expect sorcs to give up some damage to help make them be more "tanky". Every other class has to do the same.

Numerikuu

susmitds wrote: »

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

If you invest in health, your dps drops. Drop below the requirement for competitive vet dlc/trials/scoreboards etc? You'll be replaced with another class. It's that simple.

Also gl with those piddly 6-7k shields--which cost a ton--in vMA if you've not run it 58437598375 times or suffer disabilities. A 15k-20k shield in there is ripped apart in seconds.

deLioncourt

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

So 1 second cast time made the shield "unusable" but suddenly a 1 sec cast time is totally fine so long as it lets you stack up to ridiculous HP levels. Its almost like all the crying was nonsense from the start.

It makes them unusable either way. 40% max health or a 1-second cast time.

You can stub your toe and take more damage than the shield protects from now.

People would've learned over time how to groove their 1-second cast into combat. Migitated the one second cast time ..over time..through the gaining of player experience. PvE perspective.

deLioncourt

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

"But it also gains resistances so instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

"But it also gains resistances"

Light Armor wearers have no resistances. The shields gain your resistances. 10% damage reduction of 1 18k hit that would one-shot me? Brings it down to 16.2k Still enough to one shot me. Resistances won't make much of a difference.

"instead of a larger sheild that takes less damage you have a smaller sheild that takes more damage."

What part of this is a buff?

More than 10%, how about you do the math before you start complaining about the end of the world. Do you need a sheild that is more than your entire health bar? No you don't, not in any pve content. That's a L2P issue.

What do you mean more than 10%?

YOUR resistances get added to the shield.

deLioncourt

Numerikuu wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

If you invest in health, your dps drops. Drop below the requirement for competitive vet dlc/trials/scoreboards etc? You'll be replaced with another class. It's that simple.

Also gl with those piddly 6-7k shields--which cost a ton--in vMA if you've not run it 58437598375 times or suffer disabilities. A 15k-20k shield in there is ripped apart in seconds.

This.

In vMA, there are some spots where you won't survive if you aren't mashing the shield button as fast as you can.

Jhalin

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

DocFrost72

6.4k ÷ .89 ÷ .81 ÷ .80 (12k resists) = 11,079 (rounded down).

So essentially yeah, you can add an effective 69% of your health. That "18k one shot" will deal 7k damage, or less than half your health.

Shezzarrine

DocFrost72 wrote: »

6.4k ÷ .89 ÷ .81 ÷ .80 (12k resists) = 11,079 (rounded down).

So essentially yeah, you can add an effective 69% of your health. That "18k one shot" will deal 7k damage, or less than half your health.

Exactly this, I didn't have the exact numbers, thank you for posting this. Do this combined with no cast time is barely s nerf to sheilds. You don't need more than 70% of your health in sheild

DjMuscleboy02

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

Wait, what? Yes it is...16k hp before buffs is pretty standard on Magic builds..

If the shield has a cast time, you can't block and cast it in pve. That along with the fact that the general gameplay of the game is too fast for cast time abilities just make a shield with a cast time absolutely useless in pve.

This change is fine. Unless you relentlessly spam shield in PvE content, you won't even notice the change much.

Shezzarrine

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

If you invest in health, your dps drops. Drop below the requirement for competitive vet dlc/trials/scoreboards etc? You'll be replaced with another class. It's that simple.

Also gl with those piddly 6-7k shields--which cost a ton--in vMA if you've not run it 58437598375 times or suffer disabilities. A 15k-20k shield in there is ripped apart in seconds.

This.

In vMA, there are some spots where you won't survive if you aren't mashing the shield button as fast as you can.

So that means stam can't do vMA?
You do realize the best scores don't use sheilds, right? My buddy who always runs sheilds in vMA decided to test having no sheilds for when the cast time nerf came out (before it was reverted) and got his best score ever
Once again it is a L2P issuse

wolfie1.0.

It's not even on the PTS yet. As skeptical as I am that this change is better how about we let it hit PTS and see how it works

deLioncourt

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

Jameliel

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

40% of Max Health?

So...you removed the thing that made shields worthless entirely, only to replace it with a thing that makes shields worthless entirely?

My sorc runs 16k health with food..sooo quick math.

40% of 16k is 6.4k

I'd rather have the cast time please.

This is what they want. For people to accept the ridiculous changes. Both options are akin to choosing between two types of rotten food from a trash can.

Shezzarrine

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

DjMuscleboy02

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

You can't survive/ignore mechanics just because you have a shield. You still need to move out of attacks, it just provides a little more room for error. And considering most of the game's players have difficulty clearing veteran trials, I don't think shields making people survive a little more than normal is a big deal.

GallantGuardian

And aren’t there light armor sets that provide resists

jaws343

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

Most stam DPS run 15-16K health though. So no, the point is wrong.

deLioncourt

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields. I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

DocFrost72

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields.

18k damage, you survive with only 16k health. Seems pretty clear you are.

I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

How is increasing your effective health by 69% useless?

deLioncourt

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

16k is not acceptable for endgame PvE content on live even if you have access to massive shields

5 points into hp, 10 if you use necropotence, will not be a large loss to your mag pool, and will ensure you aren’t dead in the water now that shields cannot be used as a replacement for health bars.

It was enough. I've done vAS and VHoF both on hardmode in my guild with 16k health and my 20k shields.

I was always the last one alive if we wiped. 16k Health was perfectly fine.

You're proving his point. Why should you have access to sheilds that can let you have such low health and still easily survive/ignore mechs with very little consequence? If you want survivability you should spec a little into survivability

I'm not ignoring mechanics through the use of shields.

18k damage, you survive with only 16k health. Seems pretty clear you are.

I'm not complaining that I can't have 20k Shields.

I'm complaining that they reverted their plans that made shields entirely useless in favor of ANOTHER method that also makes shields equally useless.

How is increasing your effective health by 69% useless?

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Maybe invest in Health, like every other class?

If you invest in health, your dps drops. Drop below the requirement for competitive vet dlc/trials/scoreboards etc? You'll be replaced with another class. It's that simple.

Also gl with those piddly 6-7k shields--which cost a ton--in vMA if you've not run it 58437598375 times or suffer disabilities. A 15k-20k shield in there is ripped apart in seconds.

This.

In vMA, there are some spots where you won't survive if you aren't mashing the shield button as fast as you can.

So that means stam can't do vMA?
You do realize the best scores don't use sheilds, right? My buddy who always runs sheilds in vMA decided to test having no sheilds for when the cast time nerf came out (before it was reverted) and got his best score ever
Once again it is a L2P issuse

Stamina users don't generally wear light armor.