Champion Points - Thick Skinned Problem?

havingacow · September 2018

Introduction:
So, I don't know if this is a bug or if it is known by ZoS, but I thought I would share this with everyone. Moreover, my understanding on how Champion Points work may be wrong.
Essentially, how I understand it, it will provide the passive to you rounded down to the closest integer. For example, if I 64 points into the Mighty passive it increases my damage by 13.01%, however I would not actually benefit from the 0.01% of the passive, I would only get 13%. Therefore, I believe everyone is trying to get their CP closest to an integer without going over it too much because it would be a waste of CP. However, if the passive displays an integer, then you should be getting exactly that percentage. For example, 75 into Mooncalf should give you exactly 14% Stamina Recovery.

Recently, my guild and I were looking at defensive champion points, We came across Thick Skinned and noticed that with 51 points into the passive, you receive 19% less damage from DoT damage. This passive says exactly 19%, not 19.01 or 18.99. So we tested it out because we were unsure if it really was working.

Method:
First, I am running Combat Metrics and Recount to track the damage done to me, in addition I have the combat clouds from the in game UI.
I dueled someone who was only running rearming trap to apply a DoT to me. I only looked at base damage.

Results:
With 51 Points into Thick Skinned (19%):
Damage done: 274

With 50 Points into Thick Skinned(18.75%):
Damage done: 274

With 52 Points into Thick Skinned (19.24%):
Damage done: 270

Conclusion:
First of all, you can already see there is a difference in damage done between these three CP set ups, but is it 1%? So with some quick math, if we multiply 270 by 1.01 we get 272.7. And if we multiply 274 by 0.99 we get 271.26. However, if you multiply 274 by 0.9875 we get 270.575 and if you multiply 270 by 1.0125 we get 273.375.

So it looks likes the actual damage I am taking is 270.575, if I multiple 270.575 by 1.0125 we get 273.957, which is much closer than to 274 damage.

This passive doesn't seem to be working as intended because the 0.25 part of the percent is actually factoring into the passive.

I tested this out on the recovery passives from the Green Tree of passives, For example, at 75 points into Mooncalf, I receive 14% Stamina Recovery, and when I take 1 point out of that passive and make it 74, it reduces my Stamina Recovery to 13%, which is the way I believe it was supposed to work.

Therefore, I don't know if this is an UI error and it's supposed to be 18.(something) when there is 51 points into Thick Skinned, or if this is a bug and we are not actually receiving the extra 1% reduction of DoT damage. Just thought everyone should know about this. I haven't tested other defensive CP, just this one. If you don't believe me, please go ahead and replicate the tests and see what you guys get.

Sharee · September 2018

havingacow wrote: »

This passive says exactly 19%, not 19.01 or 18.99.

Its not 19. But it is so little below 19 that the display rounds it up. You need 52 points to get to the next jumppoint, not 51. Check the 25% column: https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/

leepalmer95 · September 2018

havingacow wrote: »

Introduction:
So, I don't know if this is a bug or if it is known by ZoS, but I thought I would share this with everyone. Moreover, my understanding on how Champion Points work may be wrong.
Essentially, how I understand it, it will provide the passive to you rounded down to the closest integer. For example, if I 64 points into the Mighty passive it increases my damage by 13.01%, however I would not actually benefit from the 0.01% of the passive, I would only get 13%. Therefore, I believe everyone is trying to get their CP closest to an integer without going over it too much because it would be a waste of CP. However, if the passive displays an integer, then you should be getting exactly that percentage. For example, 75 into Mooncalf should give you exactly 14% Stamina Recovery.

Recently, my guild and I were looking at defensive champion points, We came across Thick Skinned and noticed that with 51 points into the passive, you receive 19% less damage from DoT damage. This passive says exactly 19%, not 19.01 or 18.99. So we tested it out because we were unsure if it really was working.

Method:
First, I am running Combat Metrics and Recount to track the damage done to me, in addition I have the combat clouds from the in game UI.
I dueled someone who was only running rearming trap to apply a DoT to me. I only looked at base damage.

Results:
With 51 Points into Thick Skinned (19%):
Damage done: 274

With 50 Points into Thick Skinned(18.75%):
Damage done: 274

With 52 Points into Thick Skinned (19.24%):
Damage done: 270

Conclusion:
First of all, you can already see there is a difference in damage done between these three CP set ups, but is it 1%? So with some quick math, if we multiply 270 by 1.01 we get 272.7. And if we multiply 274 by 0.99 we get 271.26. However, if you multiply 274 by 0.9875 we get 270.575 and if you multiply 270 by 1.0125 we get 273.375.

So it looks likes the actual damage I am taking is 270.575, if I multiple 270.575 by 1.0125 we get 273.957, which is much closer than to 274 damage.

This passive doesn't seem to be working as intended because the 0.25 part of the percent is actually factoring into the passive.

I tested this out on the recovery passives from the Green Tree of passives, For example, at 75 points into Mooncalf, I receive 14% Stamina Recovery, and when I take 1 point out of that passive and make it 74, it reduces my Stamina Recovery to 13%, which is the way I believe it was supposed to work.

Therefore, I don't know if this is an UI error and it's supposed to be 18.(something) when there is 51 points into Thick Skinned, or if this is a bug and we are not actually receiving the extra 1% reduction of DoT damage. Just thought everyone should know about this. I haven't tested other defensive CP, just this one. If you don't believe me, please go ahead and replicate the tests and see what you guys get.

It's already well know that on cp you need over the whole % to get that %.

So yes 19% would instead give 18%, its needs to be OVER 19% to actually get 19%.

Sharee · September 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

havingacow wrote: »

Introduction:
So, I don't know if this is a bug or if it is known by ZoS, but I thought I would share this with everyone. Moreover, my understanding on how Champion Points work may be wrong.
Essentially, how I understand it, it will provide the passive to you rounded down to the closest integer. For example, if I 64 points into the Mighty passive it increases my damage by 13.01%, however I would not actually benefit from the 0.01% of the passive, I would only get 13%. Therefore, I believe everyone is trying to get their CP closest to an integer without going over it too much because it would be a waste of CP. However, if the passive displays an integer, then you should be getting exactly that percentage. For example, 75 into Mooncalf should give you exactly 14% Stamina Recovery.

Recently, my guild and I were looking at defensive champion points, We came across Thick Skinned and noticed that with 51 points into the passive, you receive 19% less damage from DoT damage. This passive says exactly 19%, not 19.01 or 18.99. So we tested it out because we were unsure if it really was working.

Method:
First, I am running Combat Metrics and Recount to track the damage done to me, in addition I have the combat clouds from the in game UI.
I dueled someone who was only running rearming trap to apply a DoT to me. I only looked at base damage.

Results:
With 51 Points into Thick Skinned (19%):
Damage done: 274

With 50 Points into Thick Skinned(18.75%):
Damage done: 274

With 52 Points into Thick Skinned (19.24%):
Damage done: 270

Conclusion:
First of all, you can already see there is a difference in damage done between these three CP set ups, but is it 1%? So with some quick math, if we multiply 270 by 1.01 we get 272.7. And if we multiply 274 by 0.99 we get 271.26. However, if you multiply 274 by 0.9875 we get 270.575 and if you multiply 270 by 1.0125 we get 273.375.

So it looks likes the actual damage I am taking is 270.575, if I multiple 270.575 by 1.0125 we get 273.957, which is much closer than to 274 damage.

This passive doesn't seem to be working as intended because the 0.25 part of the percent is actually factoring into the passive.

I tested this out on the recovery passives from the Green Tree of passives, For example, at 75 points into Mooncalf, I receive 14% Stamina Recovery, and when I take 1 point out of that passive and make it 74, it reduces my Stamina Recovery to 13%, which is the way I believe it was supposed to work.

Therefore, I don't know if this is an UI error and it's supposed to be 18.(something) when there is 51 points into Thick Skinned, or if this is a bug and we are not actually receiving the extra 1% reduction of DoT damage. Just thought everyone should know about this. I haven't tested other defensive CP, just this one. If you don't believe me, please go ahead and replicate the tests and see what you guys get.

It's already well know that on cp you need over the whole % to get that %.

So yes 19% would instead give 18%, its needs to be OVER 19% to actually get 19%.

Just to emphasize: this issue is specific to 51 points into a category that maxes out at 25%.
It is not true for 75 points into a category that maxes out at 15%. There, you can be at 75 points, showing exactly 14% bonus, and actually get the 14%.

fred4 · September 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Just to emphasize: this issue is specific to 51 points into a category that maxes out at 25%.
It is not true for 75 points into a category that maxes out at 15%. There, you can be at 75 points, showing exactly 14% bonus, and actually get the 14%.

This.

So many people get this wrong, including well-known YouTubers, that it bears repeating. If you are unsure, gradually add 1 point to CP and check ability tooltips after every point. Unless, of course, it's Befoul, which currently doesn't seem to affect tooltips and may, in fact, be broken.

Nestor · September 2018

There is a recent thread where someone built a calculator for getting the best mitigation from CPs. Search for it, I am at work and dont have time. Anyway, I used the guidelines on all my alts and have far less squishiness.

Bladerunner1 · September 2018

havingacow wrote: »

Conclusion:
First of all, you can already see there is a difference in damage done between these three CP set ups, but is it 1%? So with some quick math, if we multiply 270 by 1.01 we get 272.7. And if we multiply 274 by 0.99 we get 271.26. However, if you multiply 274 by 0.9875 we get 270.575 and if you multiply 270 by 1.0125 we get 273.375.

So it looks likes the actual damage I am taking is 270.575, if I multiple 270.575 by 1.0125 we get 273.957, which is much closer than to 274 damage.

This passive doesn't seem to be working as intended because the 0.25 part of the percent is actually factoring into the passive.

That's probably working as intended. It's just what happens when you stack the same type of mitigation, each additional point becomes slightly more valuable than the previous. So you see 1.25% instead of 1% when adding to a number as large as 18%.

Assume you had zero points in thick skinned, you would take something like 334 damage. Mitigate that number by 18% and you take 274 damage. However if you mitigate it by 19% you take 270.5 damage, which almost matches your measurements.

paulsimonps · September 2018

@Nestor

yay something thinking about my little thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427251/optimizing-mitigation-calculator/p1

@OP will mention that its not 100% finished yet and its been a little bit since I got time to work on it cause IRL work is a ***.
However I can confirm that I have tested the same as you and the 19% is indeed NOT 19% but instead you have to go 1p higher. This is also the case with some really low number, can't remember which tree had it but it was like 1 or 4% something like that, something most of us would gloss over completely cause we always go way higher, regardless, I don't trust whole percentages in the CP trees.