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How do you go on the defensive in pvp with your Sorc?

Tasear
Tasear
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* I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

* I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

* You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    I've always said this mag sorc is an excellant potato killer in pvp. Works amazing vs people who aren't very good and have terrible builds so their dmg is bad and are easy to catch in the burst.

    But sorcs are bad vs average players, not even 'good' players just average who have pvp builds and are used to sorc builds, so will block frags, purge curse etc.. and shields aren't very good vs them. Poisons proc sets etc... all melt shields.

    So vs anyone who isn't a noob shields get melted. I've ran around on a mag sorc for a while it was my second character but i favour stamina heavily now because it's much better for solo/ small scale. I've 1v1'd mag sorc many times open world, most can't handle my pressure, the more experiences sorc's kind of can but i'm usually pressuring them for a long time and they struggle to go on the offensive. Sure it could be a 5m fight of the sorc being defensive but that is true for anything now, any heavy armour build can play defensive and be unburstable. All it takes is 1 ult when shields are low of off and the fights over.

    Of course if i'm with a friend who also knows what they're doing we'd kill every the most experiences mag sorc in a 2v1 in 30 seconds max, usually quicker. Apply dots, pressure, dump ults and thats the fight.


    The people who say sorc shields are OP are likely the ones who throw out 3k dmg ult's and have 35k hp builds and spam lights. They don't have a clue and too players like them sure a mag sorc may seem op because they'll keep shields up and they likely won't be able to touch the sorc's hp. However if that player was on anything stam it would be the same, sure the hp may move but the player would be more mobile and more tanky and could more easily burst.

    In regards to mobility anything stamina is far more mobile, the only thing a mag sorc has is streak which when every has increased movement speed because of swift and is basically at 100% speed cap it's not amazing. On my stamina character it's costs me far less resources chasing a streaking sorc than it does them streaking and they never get away. I can a sprint a single streak gap in 1-2s easily and if the mag sorc is snared in anyway it's almost pointless.

    I'd say it maybe has higher mobility than magplar/ mag dk however that was before swift. Stacking a few swift on a class which uses mistform is better than relying on streak for mobility. It's better to have a 40-60% mist form with 75% dmg reduction and stop mag regen than it is the streak twice and cost 7.5k magicka (3k + 4.5k (50%)) and still be easily chased.
    Edited by leepalmer95 on September 26, 2018 6:17AM
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Bergzorn
    Bergzorn
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    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

    I have a 6.3k Hardened Ward in no-CP. It melts like butter, it's usually gone in two seconds or less. My survivability comes from spamming the ward combined with roll dodge. I willingly sacrifice a lot of damage to get the sustain for this.
    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

    I'm using 3x purple swift and major expedition for crazy mobility. I use Streak, but mainly offensively.
    Tasear wrote: »
    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    Heavy armor was a no-go for magsorc since the offered resistance did nothing for your wards, while the sustain (and penetration) provided by 5x light was very needed.

    Wards will benefit from resistances now, but sorc is still craving for sustain. I'm unable to see how a heavy magsorc could work in the current PvP environment.


    no CP PvP PC/EU

    EP Zergborn
    DC Zerg Beacon

    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    - wards are my defence, but also roll dodge as it scales better to multiple attackers (roll made possible by well fitted, now going to be impossible as need Impen trait) also you need to try to kite away / los etc
    - wards are good but you can't sustain then for ever. Maybe Pros can. However even good players can seem to when noobs attack then head on, don't time attacks or have the burst/DPS to get a ward down or work on CCing you and working your stamina pool. Against good players wards are not strong on sorc.
    - wards that turtle up and get stuck turtling will die
    - right now if our wards drop we dead. Sure it can take playstyle to get then down. AFTER patch We will have impen, and many run heavy. Thus we will be harder to kill not easier if we are forced into the meta (sure if we stay infused/well fitted & light we gunna be dead)
    - i run light as without it you don't have the Pen to zap people.
    - streak has problems. It's clunky (delay at end) and so expensive. Swift jewlery folks outrun it. Speed pots too. Gap glosers out range it.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Sorcs need sustain & a better CC choice (ideally old frag)

    - With the delay to wards reaction to good players is a huge issue
    - with wards critting we now all have to run impen, lowering our damage or ability to roll dodge. It also pigeon holes us further
    - healing ward heal was our only instant heal even tho its small

    They can't change all those things. It's a very stale direction basing balance around Pro Sorc players capability OR complaints from new players

    Ps all my feedback is PvP i don't see the changes a big issue for PvE at all.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sorcs need sustain & a better CC choice (ideally old frag)

    - With the delay to wards reaction to good players is a huge issue
    - with wards critting we now all have to run impen, lowering our damage or ability to roll dodge. It also pigeon holes us further
    - healing ward heal was our only instant heal even tho its small

    They can't change all those things. It's a very stale direction basing balance around Pro Sorc players capability OR complaints from new players

    Ps all my feedback is PvP i don't see the changes a big issue for PvE at all.

    All sorc have in terms of dmg is the easy to counter burst.

    They don't have any class dots like vampires bane or cripple, so they can't really throw out some high dps to soften targets up. Just sitting there and cursing and spamming crushing shock isn't enough.

    Plus it's so easily countered, dk's and wardens counter ranged builds so hard so i feel like i'm forced to use crushing shock so i'm not completely helpless, templars counter the curse.

    After playing a sorc for so long i haven't lost so a 1v1 vs one of them in open world for a long time, it's just so easy to see the burst coming and even if they hit me with it i can survive it fine in heavy armour.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Agreed. It's either not enough or hugely telegraphed.

    However the masses on here don't feel like that. They have weak burst and think wards insanely tank and think sorcs hit like a truck probably because one curse Crit on their divines gear.

    But i concur mate.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

    people who claim they cant get through shields are one of the 3 following options:
    • complete potato pvpers (green gear and divine steed mundus)
    • semi-skilled pvper facing a good sorc
    • people who are advertising shieldbreaker in cyrodiil zone chat
    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

    sorc definitly wont have best mobility next patch anymore, you could streak 5 times in combination with dark deal but that option is gone now because ZOS though nerfing dark exchange is good for sorc sustain :thinking_emoji:
    Tasear wrote: »
    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    Why bother running impen gear or heavy when your shields dont benefit from resistances thus far. A decent sorc will never drop his shields in PvP engagements. The only time where it can punish you that you dont have impen is when you are out of stam in a CC and your shields drop, but thats where well-fitted comes in.
    We're gonna see how that plays out next patch though, I got a feeling heavy armor MEME sorc might be viable for PvP somehow.

    Just kidding.
    You need the light armor still for sustain and damage, you dont simply give up 5k spell pen 10% crit and like 20% cost reduction for heavy, especially since it will also work against damage shields next patch. Maybe if heavy still had the increased weapon-/spelldamage passive which ZOS removed long time ago it would be viable.

  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
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    I'm not a defensive person, so for Cyrodiil

    7 light, Necro, elegance, illambris (all divine). Clanfear. Keep Surge and Storm up at all times.

    When I start taking fire, or expect to:
    1. Kill the attacker
    2. Spam Hardened Ward even faster
    3. Clanfear heals
    4. Run to the back of the crowd
    5. Maybe use an invis pot
    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?
    I think this may be largely a matter of perspective. The shield user will be spamming shields like mad to keep them up, but the attacker can't see that happening because it's not rendered on their rig, so to the attacker it just seems like shields are up all the time.
    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?
    No, not the best. Only Streak is better than other classes, and only for fleeing battle. Don't use Streak on my sorc, not enough slots. When I'm on one of my NB's and Sorcs streak away from me I usually just let them go, but that's the only time sorc mobility comes into play.
    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?
    [/quote]
    Light is better. More magicka for more and bigger hardened ward is better.

    Happy days [/sigh]
    PC EU
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    * Shields are an odd defensive mechanic. They are very extreme in their effectiveness. Against low-damage builds, they allow to absorp pretty much all damage, easy.
    But once you meet a high-damage, high-pressure build, they melt so easily. And worst, as they need to be casted actively, you're struggling to get on the offense again. Mag NBs and mag DKs are hell to fight.
    But even without high pressure, a stun before shields expire, followed by a burst, easily spells doom. Or bringing a second attacker, as there's no scaling. Shields being proactive and non-scaling is such an Achilles heel, but... every other alternative is too weak on sorc.

    * Sorcs have the best OUT-OF-COMBAT-mobility. Streak+Conversion is an awesome way to cover ground. Being able to streak across gaps onto ledges is super handy. Use this to relocate EARLY, and you can do some work.
    But. All that crumbles once you committed to a fight. All of a sudden, the stacking cost of Streak plus the cast time of Conversion become a deciding disadvantage. Streaking into a wall or accidentally down from one can spell doom. The absolutely broken behaviour of Streak on slopes (and there's a slope EVERYWHERE in Cyro) makes you wanna cry in frustration. Can't streak around corners, good luck chasing a stam build around a tower.
    And then bite into your screen seeing how helpless you are to snares and roots (facing the wrong direction). Sorc mobility was stunted before Swift, but since now you can't even cover ground as fast and efficient as sprinters, who then also gapclose you 24/7, sorc mobility is effectively not given IN COMBAT.

    * Speaking from light armor magsorc perspective. Heavy armor is just NO. Nada. Nein. Need damage, sustain, shield and sets from light armor. And the heavy passives just don't synergize well.
    On a personal note, heavy armor is not a magician thing. Come on, wizards don't wear knight armor and sneak through bushes with a greataxe. I can endure some ridiculous builds for the sake of competitiveness, but there's a line after which a class loses identity, immersion, credibility and therefore, FUN. Heavy armor fits a mag DK, but for mag sorcs, no righteous RPG designer would consider heavy armor a solution. For jack-of-all-trades-PvP. It's somewhat okay for specific PvE sorc tanks - if they are a thing.
  • Thraben
    Thraben
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    Tasear wrote: »
    1) I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

    2 I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

    3 You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    1) People that can barely get through shields are like people getting killed by Overload. Amateurs. Every SmallScale group on Sotha (EU) uses at least 2x Sload´s.

    2) In light armor, you can still streak away. That being said, even my MagSorc wears 1x swift as a compromise. The trend for most classes is 3x swift.

    3) On CP servers light armor shield stackers are more tanky, on No-CP servers heavy armor Sorcs are more tanky. Heavy armor comes with a price, though: You need more skill slots for things light armor users don´t care (like Dark Exchange, Defensive Rune, Mistform, Matriarch, or an armor buff), you have troubles finding the right set (You can´t wear Necro AND VD, for example), and you don´t have the sustain to streak away over half the map.

    Also, the loss of the ultimate bar hits them harder, not only because of the greater need of skill slots, but also because they typically can´t attack with one bar, which is reserved for Sword´n Board, or (if they aren´t Vampires) even a Twohander (for Forward Momentum).
    Edited by Thraben on September 26, 2018 9:43AM
    Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs

    DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.

    DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.
  • Sparr0w
    Sparr0w
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    Streak > Roll cancel healing ward > streak > Run away
    @Sparr0w so I get the notification
    Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
    Tank: NB | DK | Warden
    Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH
    PC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc
    Tank: DK | NB
    Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS
  • visionality
    visionality
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    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

    Against any competent player, shields melt. In any normal fighting scenario, only shield stacking will grant you a certain amount of survivablitly. The problem with shields is that they give you absolute numbers. You have like 15k shields, and against 2 halfway competent players, you will just be able to keep them up AND go offensive every now and then. Make it 3 or 4 players and your shields are just gone and you have no time for counterattacks anymore. This is a massive disadvantage compared to dodge, roll dodge and cloak, where you avoid a certain percentage of damage no matter how many players pressure you or - when it comes to roll dodge and cloak - where you avoid almost all damage for a very limited time.

    Actually my best survivablity in 1vsX fights comes from invisibility-immovable-pots that allow me to pull out of the heat for a few seconds, reposition and regenerate before I go back in again. Shields are useless in that regard.
    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

    Every swift build is as fast and can change direction without burning ressources like hell (just send a magsorc and a swift build on a race around a tower and look who comes out first...). Sorcs are permanently stunned, CCd and have no immunity mechanicm that would grant them a few seconds of free movement. Moreover, the "mobility ability" streak is one-directional, clunky and gives you a short, hard stop after each cast. Not to mention it kills your ressources if you spam it.
    Tasear wrote: »
    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    Is this a serious question? lol

    The only time I have seen competitive magsorc players in heavy armor (in PVP only) was before regen via constitution was massively nerfed and before you needed 5 pieces of light armor to cast anulment. Nowadays, heavy armor is just no-go for competitive PVP-sorcs. Same for endgame PVE content, you will never see a magsorc in heavy armor there at all.
  • Bergzorn
    Bergzorn
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    Also, when we are talking about (mag)sorc defense, I feel like this should be repeated:

    1) Wards will receive crit damage, this is a huge nerf for every ward in PvP. There is no upside from the ward PoV.

    2) Wards will receive resistance buffs, this is a (considerable) buff in PvE in all cases, no downside. It's not yet clear how it will work out in PvP with all the build options, but it's not hard to guess that light armor users will be the losers.

    3) Cast time on Conjured Ward and Annulment. This *** everything up so hard.

    1) alone is huge with the potential to break ward-based builds.
    2) alone is huge with the potential to break ward-based builds.
    3) alone is huge with the potential to break ward-based builds.

    I cannot understand why they even consider implementing all three points in one patch. It's like an AAA troll.

    The tragedy for magsorc is that the class defense is designed solely around wards, but no valid compensation is offered for 1) and 3).
    no CP PvP PC/EU

    EP Zergborn
    DC Zerg Beacon

    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • DarkJester1
    DarkJester1
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!
  • Bergzorn
    Bergzorn
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    Sure, you can probably go for something like brass+impreg and use your remaining sustain to cast a high-resistance shield now and then. I'm not sure if PvP needs more troll-tanks, but I might try this and use encase as often as I can to become a real pest.

    no CP PvP PC/EU

    EP Zergborn
    DC Zerg Beacon

    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    I guess I was probably one of the last DW sorcs - but was eventually forced into staff (and then pretty much stopped playing the class).


    But I'll talk about the goodness that was DW - and the way I played it. Bear in mind, this was before the frags and empower nerfs and when miats was rife, causing soooo many frags to miss. But this was when it was most fun..

    I played max mag builds and went for max damage and minimum sustain. Yeah, it was completely against the grain of what most other sorcs were doing - but it was fun. I also (unusually for open world) used a pet (matriarch) for heals. The downside was mobility (no boundless), only 2 shields (no healing ward), no background heals (surge) - and of course no spammable and no utility. BUT that lack of spammable meant I could run less sustain - although I would generally NOT build to sustain indefinitely.

    So, shields. They were huge. I was using 50k mag builds when most sorcs ran around 40k - I also ran 4x well-fitted. I absolutely could survive any 1v1 by shield-spamming, and recover from ganks with shields and a huge burst heal. But I couldn't sustain constant pressure from somebody I couldn't kill. Good NB's would burst, cloak, hide, and the need for stacking both-shields to survive the burst coming in was hell for sustain. I'd run dry and lose. Well, basically, any fight I had was on a timer - kill them before running dry.. Yeah, I had pots and resto heavies to help, but dark exch had to be on the overload bar - which only made it viable for quick out of combat recov.
    Vs multiple opponents. if getting focussed, I could often survive for a bit with big shields + some cheap doge-rolls at the right time - usually just long enough for them to switch to an easier target.(then I'd have to escape to resto-heavy/dark deal like mad). But any sustained pressure by 2 or more meant death, as I was stuck in a cycle of shielding till dry.

    In many vs many - it really shone - being able to push up, dish out some nasty bursts, then retire behind friendlies to recov resources.. was all good..

    But damage...
    It had huge burst - and could (rarely) kill in a single burst. But s said, all too often, miats dodged it - so had to switch to another target.. This happened a lot. On anyone else, the burst had to be big enough that they couldn't fully recover before you landed the next one - since there was no (ZERO) damage between bursts. This was balance.. If the burst was any lower, it wouldn't have been viable - but as it was - it was viable.. As I say, the compromise was sustain.. you had to kill the guy before you ran dry.. That meant you only had so many burst attempts to get him down.


    Mobility
    Was bad. Streak only. Often used when rooted to save stam, but could do it quite a bit with the high mag pool.. you only have to be quicker than the slowest ally, right? But yeah, always getting caught - but hopefully not by everyone, and closer to a bit of Los.. Struggle to have the resources to finish all but potatoes though.


    What's changed? Well, staff is now just better - but it takes more sustain to use. So mag is lower to handle that (ie weaker shields). Frags massively nerfed too - destroying the ability for DW setups to have enough burst. Lower spell-dmg on staff (but with light attack weaves) - means damage is less- a lot less bursty, but more sustained.
    BUT Everybody else's damage keeps going up.. Weapon-damage on builds keeps getting higher and higher - but max mag has always stayed the same - compared to the DW builds I used to use.. In fact it dropped with some of he nerfs (Necropotence/trainee/change to %buff stacking) - so we have to face higher damage with smaller shields... sharpened nerfed so more infused glyphs/poisons all eating at shields,. Not to mention all the oblivion damage flying around..
    You now NEED a full shield stack to be able to survive to cast a full burst rotation - and to get that stack, you need to dodge while shielding, so they're not gone by the time you finish building it.. No, Shields are on the edge of being useless.. Stacking is all but impossible when under pressure and your first shield is gone by the time you get your second up.. Its only possible when you get a breather - and necessary to land your burst (which is now like a wet noddle anyway).

    But people still post here as if sorcs are all like they were 2 years ago...
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    Sparr0w wrote: »
    Streak > Roll cancel healing ward > streak > Run away

    zerglings response: stampede > stampede > stampede > stampede > stampede > get zerged
  • WhipSmartMcoy
    WhipSmartMcoy
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    Shield stacking honestly.
    However, any competent player (especially in duels) knows how to time their burst and apply pressure till I either run away, or out of magic.
    It always felt balanced to me because there were people who could kill me despite trying to escape, people I couldn't kill, loads of people I COULD kill, and of course a couple specimens that I couldn't kill who also could not kill me.
    Once shields are gone though my form of defense is definitely going to be to play my NB instead
  • oxygen_thief
    oxygen_thief
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!

    what for? to become a running doll for dps test?
  • CasNation
    CasNation
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    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?

    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?

    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    * I run Empowered Ward in Battlegrounds (the only PvP I play) alongside Healing Ward and Boundless Storm. I use Empowered because of the sustain synergy with Lichn which I need to keep everything up (even though I already devote 2 of my 3 sets to sustain). The shields last about a second under pressure, and I am forced to spam them to stay alive, putting strain on my resources. If someone can't get through my shields, it is because I am literally casting one every second. I run 18k stamina on my magicka sorc in BGs (about 4-6k higher than most) specifically so that I can roll dodge to mitigate damage and be able to break free of CC. So yeah, shields really don't shoulder the full weight of my defenses, and I invest a lot of resources in just sustaining them. I run Healing Ward but I almost never get the heal from it. The shield is taken down too fast. The only time Healing Ward heals me is when I have run away from combat and am trying to regen. Which isnt fun because I can't stay in the fight. I mainly run it to support my teammates and to heal up between fights.

    * Mobilty. I run Boundless Storm mostly for Major Expedition, which I consider a necessary buff in BGs where you need to get to objectives quickly. I run Ball of Lightning as well, but more for defense, as it is useless as an on-demand stun, and doesnt provide the mobility necessary to move around. Sorc mobility feels bad to use, and the stacking cost makes me feel punished for using a skill that should be core to my class. I can't use it to move around, because i might need it for a stun, or defense. I can't use it for stuns or defense, because I might need it to escape. Feels like a catch 22.

    * I use Light Armor. Heavy Armor doesnt offer enough damage or sustain, and I am already sacrificing most of my set bonuses to make sure I have enough sustain (Shackle, Lich back, Willpower front, 1 Domihaus). Heavy armor would cause me to sacrifice too much to survive, without being able to sustain any damage or defensive rotations. I have been trying to find ways to run heavy next patch, but I dont have the bar slots to make up for the losses I take from losing light armor. Ideally I would run Elemental Drain, but the sorc burst combo requires too many pieces to be effective. If you lose any of them, you simply can't kill people.

    In reality, I probably just won't play my sorc next patch. My magplar has been more fun in BGs, and is just getting better.

    I hope this helps @Tasear, and thanks for putting all this effort in. Not everyone says so, but we all appreciate it.
    PC NA AD
    Gamma Fyr: Dunmer Sorcerer Stamina DPS (the Missing Sister...props to those who get the reference)
    Samekh Fyr: Dunmer Nightblade Magicka DPS
    Claire Le'Rouge: Breton Templar Heal/Tank (the Resplendent Bastion)
    Augustus Constantine: Imperial Nightblade PvP (Blackwater Bandit)
    Shadow-of-Sundered-Star: Altmer Dragonknight Lowbie
  • DarkJester1
    DarkJester1
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!

    what for? to become a running doll for dps test?
    Typical response of a sorc. Once you are on our level, you'll understand the need for actual defensive stats, which fortified brass gives a lot of. Your survivability will go way up, and it's worth it over whichever one of the two dps sets you were using before.

    Oh don't, and enjoy the dirtnaps, because you'll have a lot of them.
  • CasNation
    CasNation
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!

    what for? to become a running doll for dps test?
    Typical response of a sorc. Once you are on our level, you'll understand the need for actual defensive stats, which fortified brass gives a lot of. Your survivability will go way up, and it's worth it over whichever one of the two dps sets you were using before.

    Oh don't, and enjoy the dirtnaps, because you'll have a lot of them.

    See, here's the problem: which dps sets do you expect a sorc to replace? Many sorcs don't run damage sets, especially in no-CP. I can't give up Shackle because I need the defense/tats/sutain, and I can't give up Lich because I need the sustain...

    I don't disagree with you. Fortified Brass IS a good set. I considered it for my magplar, before eventually deciding on heavy seducer instead. However, the issue with sorcs is that they rely too much on their sets for sustain, and can't really afford to give those up for more defenses. They dont have the passive healing that something like a NB does, and they dont have the burst healing of a Templar, so they have to rely on shields to stay alive.
    PC NA AD
    Gamma Fyr: Dunmer Sorcerer Stamina DPS (the Missing Sister...props to those who get the reference)
    Samekh Fyr: Dunmer Nightblade Magicka DPS
    Claire Le'Rouge: Breton Templar Heal/Tank (the Resplendent Bastion)
    Augustus Constantine: Imperial Nightblade PvP (Blackwater Bandit)
    Shadow-of-Sundered-Star: Altmer Dragonknight Lowbie
  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    - right now if our wards drop we dead. Sure it can take playstyle to get then down. AFTER patch We will have impen, and many run heavy. Thus we will be harder to kill not easier if we are forced into the meta (sure if we stay infused/well fitted & light we gunna be dead)
    - i run light as without it you don't have the Pen to zap people.
    One thing I'm doing right now on my templar dps build in no-CP is wearing 1 Pirate skelly and 1 Chudan to double down on the resistance buffs both sets give for 1 piece. This allows me to run 5-1-1 light (or 5-2 light-heavy if you don't have undaunted maxed) so I still get the penetration buff and use two offensive sets. With major ward/resolve active this puts both resistances in the 20-23k range.
    • PC/NA
    • Karllotta, AD Magplar, AR 50
    • Hatched-In-Glacier, DC Magden, AR 44
    • Miraliys, EP Warden, AR 35
    • Kartalin, AD Stamblade, AR 35
    • Kallenna, AD Magcro, AR 34
    • Miralys, EP Magsorc, AR 34
    • Milthalas, EP Magblade, AR 34
    • Lemon Party - Meanest Girls - @ Kartalin - Youtube
  • Betty_Booms
    Betty_Booms
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    I think people who state "shield stacking is OP" dont use a sorc much. Shields last 6 seconds. If you cast 3 then you have 3 seconds if that of those shields but each shield then drops of 1 second thereafter...its a myth. They are also quite expensive to maintain.

    I main a sorc and have gone up against other sorcs. Some are very tanky but not because of shields... trust me.

    Ive made the switch to heavy armour and omg it is so much better. Unless you build for a lot of regen then its pointless. I simply run and use meditate.

    I run Hardened on front bar and healing ward on resto bar. Ill be switching to ice staff come new patch and dropping hardened.

  • bardx86
    bardx86
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    * Shields are an odd defensive mechanic. They are very extreme in their effectiveness. Against low-damage builds, they allow to absorp pretty much all damage, easy.
    But once you meet a high-damage, high-pressure build, they melt so easily. And worst, as they need to be casted actively, you're struggling to get on the offense again. Mag NBs and mag DKs are hell to fight.
    But even without high pressure, a stun before shields expire, followed by a burst, easily spells doom. Or bringing a second attacker, as there's no scaling. Shields being proactive and non-scaling is such an Achilles heel, but... every other alternative is too weak on sorc.

    * Sorcs have the best OUT-OF-COMBAT-mobility. Streak+Conversion is an awesome way to cover ground. Being able to streak across gaps onto ledges is super handy. Use this to relocate EARLY, and you can do some work.
    But. All that crumbles once you committed to a fight. All of a sudden, the stacking cost of Streak plus the cast time of Conversion become a deciding disadvantage. Streaking into a wall or accidentally down from one can spell doom. The absolutely broken behaviour of Streak on slopes (and there's a slope EVERYWHERE in Cyro) makes you wanna cry in frustration. Can't streak around corners, good luck chasing a stam build around a tower.
    And then bite into your screen seeing how helpless you are to snares and roots (facing the wrong direction). Sorc mobility was stunted before Swift, but since now you can't even cover ground as fast and efficient as sprinters, who then also gapclose you 24/7, sorc mobility is effectively not given IN COMBAT.

    * Speaking from light armor magsorc perspective. Heavy armor is just NO. Nada. Nein. Need damage, sustain, shield and sets from light armor. And the heavy passives just don't synergize well.
    On a personal note, heavy armor is not a magician thing. Come on, wizards don't wear knight armor and sneak through bushes with a greataxe. I can endure some ridiculous builds for the sake of competitiveness, but there's a line after which a class loses identity, immersion, credibility and therefore, FUN. Heavy armor fits a mag DK, but for mag sorcs, no righteous RPG designer would consider heavy armor a solution. For jack-of-all-trades-PvP. It's somewhat okay for specific PvE sorc tanks - if they are a thing.

    Well said. I'd also add a well played templar is impossible to fight.
  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!

    what for? to become a running doll for dps test?
    Typical response of a sorc. Once you are on our level, you'll understand the need for actual defensive stats, which fortified brass gives a lot of. Your survivability will go way up, and it's worth it over whichever one of the two dps sets you were using before.

    Oh don't, and enjoy the dirtnaps, because you'll have a lot of them.

    Saying something like "sorcs wear two damage sets" is a great way to demonstrate you have no credibility in discussions of the class. No, sorcs do not run two damage sets; they rarely even run one.

    I'd advise people to ignore this guy anyway. He runs an Argo stamDK troll tank in PCNA BGs and rarely does anything besides hold block while standing on the flags/relics.

    I mean if staying alive while killing no one is your idea of engaging gameplay then you do you, just don't come into a discussion you're entirely uninformed about and dictate how people who actually want to PvP should play.
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar ChalhoubRedguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
  • DarkJester1
    DarkJester1
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    TheYKcid wrote: »
    I'd advise people to ignore this guy anyway. He runs an Argo stamDK troll tank in PCNA BGs and rarely does anything besides hold block while standing on the flags/relics.

    LMAO!!!! Salty much?
    Edited by DarkJester1 on September 29, 2018 6:22AM
  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    On-topic response:

    I run two shields so I don't really stack (aside from a conjured + healing stack when in execute range).

    A large chunk of my survivability already comes from pasisve mitigation. Resistances via Boundless + Bloodspawn, and crit defense from full impen.

    It's a damage sacrifice but I find it well-worth the opportunity cost as it provides a longer window for me to allow wards to drop and stay on the offensive. Getting indefinitely stuck on wardspam when under pressure can be an inevitable and painful death for sorcs.

    I run very high stam regen as I find dodgerolls to be a much more reliable survival mechanic than shields (though they aren't mutually exclusive). Rolling helps me get to the nearest LOS when snared in tight quarters (since you always roll at full speed), and weaving-in a roll after casting Conjured helps to preserve it for a second longer (important for extending offensive windows, or protecting a subsequent healing ward so you get the delayed heal).

    High resistances + impen + already modest shield sizes means I'll be relatively unaffected next update. But if a class with naturally high CHD modifier (NB or Templar) crits a burst combo on me... I'm totally screwed still.

    The biggest danger I forsee to shields next patch is DoT pressure. Shields already melt to DoT builds on live, but in Murkmire bleeds are effectively getting double-buffed, and can now crit against shields AND bypass their resists.
    Edited by TheYKcid on September 29, 2018 7:21AM
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar ChalhoubRedguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
  • oxygen_thief
    oxygen_thief
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    Try fortified brass light. No, seriously, try it!

    what for? to become a running doll for dps test?
    Typical response of a sorc. Once you are on our level, you'll understand the need for actual defensive stats, which fortified brass gives a lot of. Your survivability will go way up, and it's worth it over whichever one of the two dps sets you were using before.

    Oh don't, and enjoy the dirtnaps, because you'll have a lot of them.

    its a typical comment from one who has never played a sorc.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Tasear wrote: »
    * I have seen people mention shields barely last enough then I seen people say they can never get through shields. What are you experiences is this matter?
    * I have seen people mention Sorc has the best mobility, but many people don't like it and say swift is or even running is out doing it. What are your experiences in this matter?
    * You use heavy or light amour on your Sorc? Is one better than the other you think for defense?

    When i take my MagSorc to PvP i run 5 light and 2 heavy. I only have 9k stamina so blocking or dodge rolling is very limited.
    The shields is what keeps me alive, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out with the upcoming shield changes.

    I have the feeling i might have to switch to 5 heavy and 2 light ...
    sad.gif
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