^
And also make jabs not aoe and instead single target with splash (reverse slice).

I say I’ll trade you my evasion class skill for sub assault; deal?

And also make jabs not aoe and instead single target with splash (reverse slice).

Splash is not impacted by evasion?

Does that mean reflective light is not impacted?

Im pretty sure the medium armour change was designed for pve. 25% aoe dmg reduction would be pretty nice against dungeon bosses.
ZoS doesnt care about pvp anywhere near as much as pve. They will sacrifice certain class viability in pvp if it means more balance in pve.

They werent intending to buff stamblade and stamwarden in pvp.. They just dont care.

Joy_Division wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

@Joy_Division

Could the Class Reps please communicate to ZOS that Stamplars are reliant on Jabs hitting hard and that heavy stamblades are getting setup to dominate PvP? The idea behind Evasion changes isn't bad, but it enables one class at the expense of others, and that class is already widely recognized as overperforming in PvP.

*Also, Bastion of the Heartland/Lekis absolutely cannot stack with Evasion if the change goes through, that would completely break the game in favor of NB's. Still hope they can find another way to give medium armor a decent defensive mechanic without giving it to heavy armor too. Not that it really needs it imo but enough ppl cry about medium.

Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.

Ty @Joy_Division !

While we templars are pretty aware of the change, it might be worthwhile to emphazise that not only templars main spammable will be affected (in PVP), but since all aoe damage is affected it will have similar consequences for many more builds/classes (in PVP).

It doesn't have to go live to test it, just run medium with dual wield skill line that gives aoe reduction in the place of evasion and then we can all sit and talk about it

Elsterchen wrote: »

Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.

But you're missing the point(s). It is generally excepted that Medium Armor is broken. One way recognize this is to play Medium Armor in PVP and observe that you literally die from full health with 1 or 2 hits. Templar's are especially tough on Medium Armor builds because the ZOS has designed finisher skills where as high as 50% health the skill enters damage amplication finishing mode. You hit a Light Armor with RadiantXYZ and it hits their shield, you hit Heavy and they can block through it, you hit Medium and you just 1-shot them dead. And There Is No Counter! On occasion, you can break LOS, but its the execption. There is nothing you can do but die.

As a general design principle no game should deliberately setup the combat system so with one button press the other player dies. It's really poor design. Well this is exactly what they've done. This is not a Templar thing, this is a fix Medium Armor thing. If ZOS were to just increase AOE skill damage by 25% then nothing was accomplished.

That said Medium is trading the 15% passive dodge of 100% of damage for 100% chance of 25% mitigation of just AOE damage. As a day in day out 7 Medium Armor who always runs Deadly Cload in PVE (you have to), who always runs Shuffle in PVP, this is not a buff, but a nerf for Medium Armor.

When you are being melted with 2x more damage than needed, 2x - 25% still kill Is you just as well.

Anyway back to the main point, the whole of this change is to make Medium less than total squish. A way to do that is to reduce the damage Medium Armor builds take, which is exactly the point of the change.

Why they opted for the fix to apply to only a subset of damage is a bit odd however. I'm not that fond of it at all. If PVE I already run Deadly so nothing gained. In PVP I run Shuffle which I've now lost. The trade-in for AOE mitigation is meh and won't help one bit.

What they should have done is dropped Passive Dodge AND THEN adjusted the harsh Dodge Roll penalty accordingly to allow skilled and explict use of Dodge Rolling a core to Medium Armor builds.

Daus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.

In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.

Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.

Yup and outside of Cloak Nightblades have the worst survivability so it's a much needed buff to their defenses. As far as everyone's Ult is concerned the solution is simple, use the 2H Ult in conjunction with Balorgh. As for Jabs having its damage nerfed tough cookies it's undodgeable. At least your landing your hits while someone is dodge rolling whereas Surprise Attack is doing 0% damage because it's missing.

The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.

Stamplar definitely is not going to be in a strong spot because their spammable is considered AoE and their ult is AoE. The meta will leave very little LA users in the field due to idiotic shield changes as magicka users are now more or less funneled into HA. Unless they want to run out of resources so quick with blocking. Stamblade, as it always have, will be the only top dog as they stand to gain the most with new sets, built-in Major Defile, damage buffs and the best mitigation tool in the game.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.

In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.

Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.

Yup and outside of Cloak Nightblades have the worst survivability so it's a much needed buff to their defenses. As far as everyone's Ult is concerned the solution is simple, use the 2H Ult in conjunction with Balorgh. As for Jabs having its damage nerfed tough cookies it's undodgeable. At least your landing your hits while someone is dodge rolling whereas Surprise Attack is doing 0% damage because it's missing.

The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.

Stamplar definitely is not going to be in a strong spot because their spammable is considered AoE and their ult is AoE. The meta will leave very little LA users in the field due to idiotic shield changes as magicka users are now more or less funneled into HA. Unless they want to run out of resources so quick with blocking. Stamblade, as it always have, will be the only top dog as they stand to gain the most with new sets, built-in Major Defile, damage buffs and the best mitigation tool in the game.

If you think stamblades have been meta then you haven't been paying attention.

I am not a class rep... which i deem good for everyones health., but I agree with @Joy_Division to discuss the topic with the devs.

As for the rest... I main a stamplar. I play most content offered by eso (on a non progress level), and I agree that evasion changes will hit hard - in PVP. Imo, not because the passive dogde chance is gone, one can live quite comfortably without it in PVP.
Adding to it the changes to evasion add a favourable buff to medium armor (DW -> so I know how the aoe reduction effects eg siege damage and PVP in general) especially when we look at the PVE side of things. In PVP, the damage reduction is creating a damage loss for any build using/relying on aoe damage (including siege tactics as well as weapon skills like steel tornado... or jabs). Imo this effect of the changes was not fully considered by the DEVs, hence: I really hope the class reps discuss this in their next meeting and find a solution (or explanation) to that ONE SIDE of the changes beeing heavily unfavourable to many players.

Daus wrote: »

The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.

Heavy armor stamina nightblade, as it has been for over a year now.

Noxious breath gonna tick for like 50 dmg now lol.