Several weeks to go and No discussion of swift in PvP!

Nyladreas · September 2018

My problem with things like swift is that they're so good and become such a huge requirement for high level pvp there isn't really much else you can use to be even remotely up to par.

I mean... Sure put up infused and get that insane damage on a glass cannon. Then miss every attack and die cause you can't hit your opponents or gain any sort of positioning advantage (which btw is one of the most important things in pvp).

brandonv516 · September 2018

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The real question is how can u get killed by a swift user? I understand that it can be annoying in capture the relic (like tanks in chaosball) but if someone give up 3 stamina/Magicka trait he will lose damage and sustain. That means that if he want to actually kill a decent player he must invest in damage sacrificing tankyness (and so will be an easy task to pressure and kill him).
I don’t really see the problem tbh, I’ve encountered many players using swift and they all hit like wet noodles or they got bursted (or they ran away lol).
Pro tip: if u and your 24 players group spend all of your stamina sprinting behind a swift user,while forgetting to apply buffs cause to busy light attacking to proc sload , and then the enemy suddenly turn and one shot you cause you can’t break free,the problem is not the trait itself (;

Because it's not as big of a sacrifice as you think it is. All of my characters run Swift and it doesn't noticeably hurt my damage one bit.

WrathOfInnos · September 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The real question is how can u get killed by a swift user? I understand that it can be annoying in capture the relic (like tanks in chaosball) but if someone give up 3 stamina/Magicka trait he will lose damage and sustain. That means that if he want to actually kill a decent player he must invest in damage sacrificing tankyness (and so will be an easy task to pressure and kill him).
I don’t really see the problem tbh, I’ve encountered many players using swift and they all hit like wet noodles or they got bursted (or they ran away lol).
Pro tip: if u and your 24 players group spend all of your stamina sprinting behind a swift user,while forgetting to apply buffs cause to busy light attacking to proc sload , and then the enemy suddenly turn and one shot you cause you can’t break free,the problem is not the trait itself (;

Because it's not as big of a sacrifice as you think it is. All of my characters run Swift and it doesn't noticeably hurt my damage one bit.

I disagree, I lose over 4400 Magicka going from 3X Arcane to 3X Swift. However, if you really think the opportunity cost is not high enough then the other solution would be to buff the stat based jewelry traits.

Reloader84 · September 2018

the Swift trait should honestly be cut in half with a maximum of 5% per jewelry piece at gold.

brandonv516 · September 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The real question is how can u get killed by a swift user? I understand that it can be annoying in capture the relic (like tanks in chaosball) but if someone give up 3 stamina/Magicka trait he will lose damage and sustain. That means that if he want to actually kill a decent player he must invest in damage sacrificing tankyness (and so will be an easy task to pressure and kill him).
I don’t really see the problem tbh, I’ve encountered many players using swift and they all hit like wet noodles or they got bursted (or they ran away lol).
Pro tip: if u and your 24 players group spend all of your stamina sprinting behind a swift user,while forgetting to apply buffs cause to busy light attacking to proc sload , and then the enemy suddenly turn and one shot you cause you can’t break free,the problem is not the trait itself (;

Because it's not as big of a sacrifice as you think it is. All of my characters run Swift and it doesn't noticeably hurt my damage one bit.

I disagree, I lose over 4400 Magicka going from 3X Arcane to 3X Swift. However, if you really think the opportunity cost is not high enough then the other solution would be to buff the stat based jewelry traits.

*Scratches head* huh?

840 Magicka x 3 = 2520

You lose almost another 2k? You must run a lot of things that boost % in Magicka.

I only run 2 Swift by the way so it's not as serious as what you seem to be experiencing.

IZZEFlameLash · September 2018

Swift resource trade is worth it because Swift makes you untargetable given the current targeting system and lag. I would not cry over 2k resource lost in return of near invincibility and super sonic speed that makes rock and tree humping easier to mitigate whole lotta damage. I mean what does 2k resource even net me at this point? 1 more dodge roll and slightly bigger overnerfed shield?

Xsorus · September 2018

Ummm, I don't have a problem targeting anyone with swift?

you know what makes a person hard to target, When they're in a zerg of 24 people

LittlePinkDot · September 2018

Arciris wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

If anything Swift brings Balance by allowing both Light and Heavy armor users to be able to catch up a bit on Medium users.

You’re absolutely right! Swift brings balance for Light and Heavy armor users so they can catch up to Medium armor users, at least until Medium users also wear three pieces of Swift jewelry and the imbalance in favor of Medium is restored again. That’s the inherent problem here. There is no balance when all types are using it.

There is a Speed Cap. To reach that speed cap while sprinting, Medium armor have:
- a bit more than 20% sprint increase from Medium (i think it's 23% from all 7 medium)
- 40% from sprint
- 30% from Major expedition (Immovable Speed pots, existing way before Swift)
- and last 10% can be either Minor expedition (StamSorc), Orc, some sets (like Fjords or Jailbreaker) or Steed Mundus+ Wind Running CP
Then use Forward Momentum for Immunity to snares.

All of this existed before Swift was introduced and there was nothing a Light or Heavy user could do but to watch them run away.
Now on my Mag chars or Heavy guys I can catch up with Medium, at the opportunity cost of wearing 3 x Swift instead of something else.
Because there is a Speed Cap, I can run as fast in light or heavy than in medium if I build (sacrifice other stuff) for it. Seems fair to me.

edit typos

Is there a point in wearing just 1 swift?
I would prefer not to lose all 3 slots to swift.
Theres also the option of using a gap closer.

Sheuib · September 2018

They should make one of the morphs of the psijic spell accelerate have the same benefits as forward momentum. That would basically make both stam and mag equal in this regard.

katorga · September 2018

ZOS can always put a 1 second cast time on the movement keys.

NBrookus · September 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Is there a point in wearing just 1 swift?
I would prefer not to lose all 3 slots to swift.
Theres also the option of using a gap closer.

It's 10% faster (at gold). If you are turtle slow, 10% more ain't much. Add it to other forms of speed and movement and it starts to add up.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2018

Sheuib wrote: »

They should make one of the morphs of the psijic spell accelerate have the same benefits as forward momentum. That would basically make both stam and mag equal in this regard.

I would definitely like that.
As it is, that psijic skill is just useless for movement on the instant version and the cast time version has its own problems. The only thing it is really used for is Major Force which is reliant on RNG of crits and only ends up being 1/16th of total damage on a crit at best with no other crit damage increases which make it a smaller benefit anyway. Major Force is overrated. It's also useless in pvp with impenentrable.

I would love a choice between offense and defense on that skill between morphs and have it actually give a decent duration for major expedition on every version of it, or just get rid of major expedition from it if that would be too powerful as we can get that from other skills.

Frawr · September 2018

Honestly, nothing is allowed to be good... except for damage.

Those naughty players running too fast for your to hit them with your combo? Damn, we must nerf them.

We should introduce roots on all skills and remove CC immunity so that you are guaranteed to land every hit.

Mojomonkeyman · September 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We have seen your concerns in this thread and are currently evaluating if we'll be making any adjustments.

Dear Gina,

please consider that swift is overperforming mainly when used with skills that completely negate its counters (snares, immobilize). Permanent uptime of snare & immobilize immunity is the main root of the problem here. Please be sensible about changes and consider that the community appreciates surgical changes here.

Thanks.

LegacyDM · September 2018

Swift is fine. You sacrifice nearly 3k magcka to run 3 pieces. It is the most fun I've had in a long time. I finally feel like I'm not slogging around in mud. You have to build for it. Players need to l2p. Please don't Nerf.

LegacyDM · September 2018

katorga wrote: »

ZOS can always put a 1 second cast time on the movement keys.

They already do. It's called cyrodil lag...

Arciris · September 2018

@LittlePinkDot

If you're wearing Light or Heavy armor, you need to sacrifice and run all 3 swift, there's no way around it (to achieve sprint Speed Cap). 1 swift won't make much of a difference, and if you're going to stand your ground, you're way better off with another trait.

If you're wearing Medium and you're not an Orc or a StamSorc, you can go with just 1 swift.

Beside sprint, swift also increases your general movement speed, so it functions as a soft snare immunity of a sort. Let's say you get snared by 70%, Swift will negate 30% of it (at gold level).
The game is full of snares (both PvP and PvP) so a little "snare mitigation" is really nice to have.

Just look at swift as a counter to the huge amount of snares there is.

The only issue here, if any, is Forward Momentum.

But, as usual, people are looking at this the wrong way and will end getting the nicest thing we had in game for a long time nerfed into Oblivion.

GreenSoup2HoT · September 2018

Swift is broken simply because it renders sprinting useless. At least for nightblades. Base speed is so fast and carries to cloak (which you cant sprint while invis), may as well never use medium armor.

Really wish the whole sprinting mechanics would get overhauled.

Arciris · September 2018

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Swift is broken simply because it renders sprinting useless. At least for nightblades. Base speed is so fast and carries to cloak (which you cant sprint while invis), may as well never use medium armor.

Really wish the whole sprinting mechanics would get overhauled.

In that same line of reasoning, Impen is broken simply because it renders Crit useless.

It's an over simplification, do you need a list of skills that snares you while all being able to stack?

The issue here is Forward Momentum: full immunity to snares and roots? BrB, gonna grab me a 2h.

Swift only offers a soft snare mitigation in PvP and in PvE it makes all kind of boring stuff (farming, grindind guilds skill lines and even questing) a lesser pain.

Zoal_AUG · September 2018

Everybody in this thread is shieldstacking mag sorc.

ezio45 · September 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

if this gets nerfed can you be sure to specify to the the team that this only needs to apply to pvp, for farming resource nodes this is really nice/ just convenient and a time saver

BaylorCorvette · September 2018

Xsorus wrote: »

Ummm, I don't have a problem targeting anyone with swift?

you know what makes a person hard to target, When they're in a zerg of 24 people

This.

Plus EVERYONE has access to Swift and you give up resources to have speed.

It's fine.

Minno · September 2018

Elong wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We have seen your concerns in this thread and are currently evaluating if we'll be making any adjustments.

It doesn't need changing at all. You give up max stats to run these pieces for a niche way of playing, especially for us Magicka Templars who turn and move slower than an oil tanker. I don't get any more kills than I did before Swift became a thing, but I have found my enjoyment levels on Magplar at an all time high.

One solution to stamina players being far too fast for skills to hit them could be to lower the speed cap so that it maxes with say 7 medium and 1 swift, or a bit higher, the exact numbers the devs can decide but to nerf the enjoyment level of magicka toons being able to maneuver will quite simply suck.

This. We finally got the mobility meta after 4 years and players already want to go back to the snare-y mess we had before lol. #ElderRocksOnline #NotSwiftsFaultForLaggyGame

Drygon · September 2018

I just want the targeting system fixed. I am tired of seeing my light attack target the red highlighted enemy that is not even near my crosshair and then go rambo to the side of my screen or to the back of my character to chase that target. Other times they are at the other extreme meaning they go right by the target or at its feet without doing any dmg, i have to point my camera up to be sure it hits in those situations.

And regarding really fast targets the light atacks won't follow them and instead of mooving with a curvature as they normaly do they become straight and it misses.

I suspect there is a problem with the system but i bet it would be less obvious if we had better ping. My internet is great and i usualy stay at 80 ping, that is decent for ESO, but in PVP it gets crazy and we all know it.

dagonbeer · September 2018

I agree with the following:

- Full momentum is a problem (no counter play)
- targeting sucks currently
- if you do anything with swift or speed cap, please add it to battlespirit. Swift is a great QoL improvement for One Tamriel.

technohic · September 2018

Elong wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We have seen your concerns in this thread and are currently evaluating if we'll be making any adjustments.

It doesn't need changing at all. You give up max stats to run these pieces for a niche way of playing, especially for us Magicka Templars who turn and move slower than an oil tanker. I don't get any more kills than I did before Swift became a thing, but I have found my enjoyment levels on Magplar at an all time high.

One solution to stamina players being far too fast for skills to hit them could be to lower the speed cap so that it maxes with say 7 medium and 1 swift, or a bit higher, the exact numbers the devs can decide but to nerf the enjoyment level of magicka toons being able to maneuver will quite simply suck.

This ^ Please if you must nerf it. Just change the speed cap. Swift is nice for classes like Magplar who do not have much mobility otherwise. Its only bad on the super stacked speed sprinters.

weedgenius · September 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Wait we are going to have zos waste PTS time to look into this instead of other items? GG folks lol.

They were already looking into it I'm sure. Everyone is running it for a reason.

If everyone is running it, then isn't it useless?

weedgenius · September 2018

LegacyDM wrote: »

Swift is fine. You sacrifice nearly 3k magcka to run 3 pieces. It is the most fun I've had in a long time. I finally feel like I'm not slogging around in mud. You have to build for it. Players need to l2p. Please don't Nerf.

100% agree. Why don't people who are complaining about this try adjusting their playstyle instead of a demanding a nerf? Players who choose to run swift are gaining a benefit but also sacrificing the other potential benefits. That's what makes a strategy a strategy.

Solariken · September 2018

If it must be nerfed, how about instead of +10% movement speed, it could provide +5% movement speed AND +5% sprint speed.

This way the maximum benefit is retained but slows people down a little bit while they are in combat and casting abilities.

Koolio · September 2018

+5% Dodge Chance Per Piece.

Lulz