Following the CC with intent trend

scipionumatia · September 2018

A few patches back, frags was changed to not stun. Now mag dk whip proc will also not stun- the reason being given is zos wants you to stun intentionally. In your opinion will we see dizzying swing lose the CC? Its not a proc like frags or whip was but it is the only (effective) 2h spamable.

Also- should it loose the CC, what effect should it gain in your opinion?

Gnozo · September 2018

Nothing. Just nerf.

#Zenilogic

ESO in 2020: No classes only light attacks. Skills can be found as a really rare rewards from the Vanilla-Crown-Crates in Crownstore.

Galarthor · September 2018

Yes it should loose CC, same as Reach.

Having CC on a spamable is just a bad design. I don't mind havin a CC on a proc'ed ability, but on a spamable it is just ridiculous. Not only does is encourage "stupid gameplay" through the mindless spamming of these abilities and CC on cooldown, but it also hinders more "advanced" or "creative" gameplay by preventing thoughtful stunning of a opponent due to the CC immunity caused by the CC on the spammable.

TheYKcid · September 2018

I will never understand the ZOS logic behind sucking the uniqueness out of all class toolkits as part of some "standardisation" masterplan. Who even thinks the current power lash is OP in any way?

jcm2606 · September 2018

It shouldn't lose the CC, rather the damage of Dizzying should be reduced, and Wrecking should receive a buff. Dizzying is the only stun available through 2H, so removing it would push stamina players over to running sword and shield for its stun, or to a stun that costs magicka, meaning it fights for resources with buffs/debuffs and utility skills.

usmcjdking · September 2018

ZOS obviously wants everyone to stack bleeds and use ravage poisons.

jerrodbuffington · September 2018

It seems that when one thing gets "balanced" this patch something else becomes out of balance. So we have a constant change of gameplay because there is always a "balance" change.

Every class will see be cookie cutters of the same thing.

A patch ago rune cage was too op.. when to me the cc length and break free cost was op. And none of this compares to the issues of bg groups of sorcs spamming wrath. That efrectilky makes you die at 3kish health. So now instead of 25k health I have 22k health. If I'm fighting someone and my health is 50 percent and my opponent is low also.. I can either continue offence and maybe die, or I can be defensive.. with a sorc around I have to be defensive all the time so my health doesnt get below 20 percent.

scipionumatia · September 2018

personally id like wrecking blow to be changed so theres no cast time- then make dizzying swing the cc option.
I dont think removing the stun on frags or whip is really a bad thing tbh it makes lining up your burst easier and i can get behind the "stun with intent" move theyre doing.

i view it kinda like playing pool with 2 different rule sets- in the one rule set you just smack the que ball and whatever balls go in go in. the other (in our house) rule set is you call your pocket before you take the shot.

Cursa · September 2018

Frags is ranged and when procs is instant cast ( you should have a seperate spammable ) , flame lash has a huge heal attatched to it and is an instant cast skill too. I definately miss the old frags but if you removed the stun off dizzy swing it would be pretty useless. One second telegraphed cast that you have to be in melle range to use which is half impossible in laggy cyrodiil right now. If you want to take the stun from it then remove the cast time but then 2h line has no stun.

Stigant · September 2018

Originally Wrecking blow morph was CC + empower (that counted against any following attack or skill, not just LA), Dyzzying Swing was CC + minor maim.

After all the changes that happened to the original design I feel like those two are nicely balanced against each other. Problem is that 2H is subpar to DW in PvE so we only see the Dizzying morph being taken and only for 2H PvP builds. And even that is getting less and less attractive lately as it's gettin very hard to land with the increase of mobility of people in PvP.

I see no reason for changes to this skill and its morphs. Pulling this skill off in current meta should feel rewarding. So lets keep the damage and CC as well.

2h needs some general buffs to compete with DW nowdays, not nerfs.

scipionumatia · September 2018

@Stigant yes the cc with empower was really good and is missed especially since empower could buff an ultimate.

I would like to see it get buffs and i dont really think loosing a cc would be a bad thing since it would grant CC immunity if your burst wasnt ready.

I agree it is increasingly more difficult to land, for that reason id like to see it lose the cast time and gain additional effects or damage.

Stigant · September 2018

scipionumatia wrote: »

@Stigant yes the cc with empower was really good and is missed especially since empower could buff an ultimate.

I would like to see it get buffs and i dont really think loosing a cc would be a bad thing since it would grant CC immunity if your burst wasnt ready.

I agree it is increasingly more difficult to land, for that reason id like to see it lose the cast time and gain additional effects or damage.

It was OP back then and I actually like how it has been changed. And I don't mind the cast time either it gives your oponent a chance to counterplay and requires some effort on your side to land it. You still can run expedition and swift and move around your target in a way to land it.

Since 2h eapons count as 2 pieces in sets, it would make sense to give them also 2 slots for glyphs for example. That, I think, might be a nice step in the right direction to bring them in line with DW in the power and desirability in both, PvP and PvE.

IAVITNI · September 2018

scipionumatia wrote: »

personally id like wrecking blow to be changed so theres no cast time- then make dizzying swing the cc option.
I dont think removing the stun on frags or whip is really a bad thing tbh it makes lining up your burst easier and i can get behind the "stun with intent" move theyre doing.

i view it kinda like playing pool with 2 different rule sets- in the one rule set you just smack the que ball and whatever balls go in go in. the other (in our house) rule set is you call your pocket before you take the shot.

The stun on frags can't be compared to the stun on whip. The offensive kit for sorcs relied on a hard hitting skill with the drawback of it being easily counterable. Sorcs with frags CC was the most balanced the class ever was offensively. It was annoying that you couldn't have complete control of your CC but that was part of the drawbacks to the class.

DKs on the other hand didn't have their entire offensive kit geared around whips stunning. IMO the stun is really annoying in a duel vs any semi-decent opponents as I actually have to stop pressure/break rotation to line up burst more than necessary.

This combat team wants to re-design each class but does so in microsteps causing these meta shfits. IF they actually understood how the sorc offensive worked, they wouldn't have touched frags. If you dodged the Frag, you weren't going to die tot he sorc. The entire offensive was built around landing it. Now I intentionally eat Frags on my other classes just to remind myself how rubbish of a skill it is.

scipionumatia · September 2018

@IAVITNI i wasnt comparing the two, that was the reasoning given by the devs in the DK patch notes.
I agree with what you said. except i still reflect frags :P

idk · September 2018

The only path OPs though can go is to remove all stuns from the game. If a skill that specifically intended stun (not a chance requiring other factors) should not stun then no skills should stun.