Balance (Damage VS Defense)

Chrlynsch
Chrlynsch
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A few of you probably know me as that werewolf guy. Werewolf is the most balanced thing in the game, with werewolf you never could just dump everything into a primary stat and have success like many of the classes are able to do. A successful werewolf is a balanced werewolf. They need Magicka rovery, Weapon damage, Stamina, Stamina rovery And Max Health, or stack lots of health recovery (before wolfhunter they needed max mag and spell damage as well) You can not stand the pressure or recover from burst well enough without diversifying the portfolio of the werewolf. With that being said here is how it relates to the rest of the community.

ZOS wants offense and defense to be separate, Sorcs were the first to feel this the hardest with a cast time added to their primary defense. This is no good and many competent pvpers and pvers have spoken out hundreds of times why it is so. I wont dwell on this. If this is the stance that is going to be taken it needs to be implemented to the rest of the game, I am not talking about slapping cast times onto everything either.

This issue seams to also stem from the fact that some content was finding healers irrelevant. I think an idea that has been said a hundred times before needs to be revisited.

ZOS should have unlinked max magic/max stamina from the damage calc a long time ago. If they wanted us to properly balance our characters. Damage should come from the combo of spell damage, weapon damage, pen and crit.. Healing and shield's should scale from max magic and stamina, or health. This in line was the reason Sorcs were "unbalanced" they could stack massive shields and still have amplified damage, but it doesn't end with sorc, all classes are designed this way, the larger the pools the better damage and healing you do.

Obviously this isn't something that could be switched overnight, countless sets and abilities would need tweeking. But if this is the stance they are going to be taking everyone else will need to fall in line, and it shouldn't be with ridiculous mechanics.
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA
  • BrokenGameMechanics
    BrokenGameMechanics
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    Hit the nail on the head.

    Damage / Shields from Weapon/Spell.
    Sustain for skills from Magica/Stamina pools. (Remove all Stamina versions of Magic Skills.).
    Dodge/Block/Sprint from Stamina.

    There is a incremental way to tune this. ZOS could start moving incrementally the "magic" 10.5 ratio of on tooltip coeffiecents to weight Weapon/Spell damage heavier than pool.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Chrlynsch wrote: »
    ZOS should have unlinked max magic/max stamina from the damage calc a long time ago. If they wanted us to properly balance our characters. Damage should come from the combo of spell damage, weapon damage, pen and crit..

    I posted this a LOOOONNNNG time ago.
    Damage strength should not be tied to the same stat that also helps sustainability. It means the stronger you are the more you can use your strongest hits.

    It also would help balance very much, making dodging and blocking and break free easier on everyone, by making max stat pools and possibly even recovery numbers finite and equal across all characters. This would allow us all to have the necessary amount of resources to block/break-free/dodge/cast skills as much as is needed in the design. We wouldn't need escalating skill costs with levels either.
    That would be better balance, but I would also leave in cost reduction options as it should be allowed for somebody to build for infinite sustainability at the cost of some damage but not a lot of damage.


    I liked how City of Heroes, with and without soft caps to stats, allowed for building a very balanced hybrid for solo and group play in this way. I build to be infinitely sustainable and relatively defensive, not a glass cannon or full tank, and I very much enjoyed it along with most of the players. Every role had a place as the tank was there to bunch enemies up while the controller(stuns and immobilizes) was there to keep them there despite knockbacks and in case anything got other ideas while the healer supplemented the durability of the tank and other melee characters through heals and buffs and debuffs the tanks didn't have, though pretty much everybody was built to be able to self-sustain and do good damage.
    Yes, City of Heroes had the "holy trinity" but it wasn't ever considered "unholy" as many other games that have done it wrong. It worked because they realized that it wasn't meant to be "necessary" to have any role but it made things easier with utility. You didn't have to pigeon-hole a tank into being useless damage and unable to properly solo, nor a healer or controller; everyone could solo large groups of enemies at an acceptable pace which was augmented by "how" they did so which made it cool, such as the Mastermind class having pets do pretty much all their damage while they commanded their target choice and buffed them with long and short buffs.

    I think that's what every game needs. Make roles useful in groups through utility but not mandatory and not severely "gimped" in everything but their "main utility" such that the trinity is mandatory.
    That's why it sucks to queue as DPS while people queue as "fake-tanks" and group composition is such a problem. The "holy trinity" has become the "unholy trinity" because of how mandatory it is.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on September 24, 2018 9:06AM
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    In addition to my first post....

    Part of our problem is the fact that this game is a mix of traditional "stats trump all" gameplay and "skill is king".
    You can move around to avoid a lot of damage and do more damage with creative placement and use of skills and even animation-canceling while in many cases some stats are still able to overpower that with skills that are always perfectly targeted where you need them and always very high numbers.

    I think we need to really lessen the effect of the "holy trinity", or just get rid of it practically, and let groups be successful in any combination of class and build so that we all have much faster group queues and can enjoy both group and solo more simply because the "holy trinity" of tank/healer/dps(or other roles devs choose) is always going to be broken when people have the choice to choose their role.

    The main problem is "faster kills mean faster rewards" so everybody wants to be dps and very few want to do anything else, especially things that can't solo. The "holy trinity" kills itself the more reinforced and stronger it is.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on September 24, 2018 5:04AM
  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
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    Go back to stacking max health and having everyone be unkillable. No thank you.

    The game orignially had resource pools separate from damage. Nobody died and this was before battle spirit.
  • Drdeath20
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    I get what your saying...

    WPD/SPD = potency
    Resource pools = frequency, shield strength, heals, evasi

    Its been done before and pvp was very terrible at that time
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