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Let's talk about those PTS Evasion changes
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****RighteousBacon wrote: »Leki reduces your vigor ticks so even if it does stack your weakening yourself to just help against AOE damage.
The change still doesn't make me want to run medium now i have 25% AOE reduction in heavy and still more damage.
Yah you’re right. Heavy armor nightblade never looked better. Just run mirage instead of shuffle and boom, no need for medium
Bingo.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)This coupled with as can still doge roll stamina should be in good shape.
Though I expect we will be hit by something soon after the nerf to magicka survival this go around.Edited by idk on September 21, 2018 7:52PM0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****This coupled with as can still doge roll stamina should be in good shape.
Though I expect we will be hit by something soon after the nerf to magicka survival this go around.
I'm not sure any of the magicka classes will be really viable pvp next patch.
Shield nerf takes out sorcerers and wardens, maybe nightblade.
Healing ward nerf takes out nightblade, maybe DK.
Soldier's Anguish set takes out burst heal magicka classes like Templar and DK.
Evasion change nerfs every offensive ultimate except incap, 2H, Bow and Soul assault (Overload and bear pre-emptively nerfed 50-30%).
Assuming that all of the above makes light armor unviable, magicka classes take a general 5-8% damage hit from losing the LA passives.Edited by katorga on September 21, 2018 8:48PM1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major Evasion 10% Minor 5%^
And also make jabs not aoe and instead single target with splash (reverse slice).3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭This coupled with as can still doge roll stamina should be in good shape.
Though I expect we will be hit by something soon after the nerf to magicka survival this go around.
I'm not sure any of the magicka classes will be really viable pvp next patch.
Shield nerf takes out sorcerers and wardens, maybe nightblade.
Healing ward nerf takes out nightblade, maybe DK.
Soldier's Anguish set takes out burst heal magicka classes like Templar and DK.
Evasion change nerfs every offensive ultimate except incap, 2H, Bow and Soul assault (Overload and bear pre-emptively nerfed 50-30%).
Assuming that all of the above makes light armor unviable, magicka classes take a general 5-8% damage hit from losing the LA passives.
MNB will be still viable thanks to Cloak. Probably this game is becoming an Elder NB Online for reals.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****I say I’ll trade you my evasion class skill for sub assault; deal?Member of:
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭^
And also make jabs not aoe and instead single target with splash (reverse slice).
The issue with such a change is that AOEs hit everything not matter what, while single target can miss (most obvious by dodge). It would still be a nerf to templars.Edited by Joy_Division on September 22, 2018 1:59PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****And also make jabs not aoe and instead single target with splash (reverse slice).
Splash is not impacted by evasion?
Does that mean reflective light is not impacted?0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭If Evasion stays 25% and stacks with Lekis I'm quitting this game@Joy_Division
Could the Class Reps please communicate to ZOS that Stamplars are reliant on Jabs hitting hard and that heavy stamblades are getting setup to dominate PvP? The idea behind Evasion changes isn't bad, but it enables one class at the expense of others, and that class is already widely recognized as overperforming in PvP.
*Also, Bastion of the Heartland/Lekis absolutely cannot stack with Evasion if the change goes through, that would completely break the game in favor of NB's. Still hope they can find another way to give medium armor a decent defensive mechanic without giving it to heavy armor too. Not that it really needs it imo but enough ppl cry about medium.Edited by WreckfulAbandon on September 22, 2018 10:10PMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)Im pretty sure the medium armour change was designed for pve. 25% aoe dmg reduction would be pretty nice against dungeon bosses.
ZoS doesnt care about pvp anywhere near as much as pve. They will sacrifice certain class viability in pvp if it means more balance in pve.
They werent intending to buff stamblade and stamwarden in pvp.. They just dont care.Edited by LittlePinkDot on September 22, 2018 10:52PM1 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Keep Evasion with dodge chance.Edited by Ariades_swe on September 23, 2018 12:40PM0
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Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Keep Evasion with dodge chance.Edited by Ariades_swe on September 23, 2018 1:08PM0
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »@Joy_Division
Could the Class Reps please communicate to ZOS that Stamplars are reliant on Jabs hitting hard and that heavy stamblades are getting setup to dominate PvP? The idea behind Evasion changes isn't bad, but it enables one class at the expense of others, and that class is already widely recognized as overperforming in PvP.
*Also, Bastion of the Heartland/Lekis absolutely cannot stack with Evasion if the change goes through, that would completely break the game in favor of NB's. Still hope they can find another way to give medium armor a decent defensive mechanic without giving it to heavy armor too. Not that it really needs it imo but enough ppl cry about medium.
Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****Joy_Division wrote: »WreckfulAbandon wrote: »@Joy_Division
Could the Class Reps please communicate to ZOS that Stamplars are reliant on Jabs hitting hard and that heavy stamblades are getting setup to dominate PvP? The idea behind Evasion changes isn't bad, but it enables one class at the expense of others, and that class is already widely recognized as overperforming in PvP.
*Also, Bastion of the Heartland/Lekis absolutely cannot stack with Evasion if the change goes through, that would completely break the game in favor of NB's. Still hope they can find another way to give medium armor a decent defensive mechanic without giving it to heavy armor too. Not that it really needs it imo but enough ppl cry about medium.
Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.
Ty @Joy_Division !
While we templars are pretty aware of the change, it might be worthwhile to emphazise that not only templars main spammable will be affected (in PVP), but since all aoe damage is affected it will have similar consequences for many more builds/classes (in PVP).Edited by Elsterchen on September 23, 2018 2:27PM0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major Evasion 15% Minor 5%I like the change to evasion except as to the amount of AOE damage reduction ... I think the 'new' major evasion 25% AOE damage reduction is too high. I would rather see it be 15% AOE damage reduction for major and 7% for minor (5% is too low for minor). This way, when people stack major and minor (and you know they will), the total AOE damage reduction will be 22%.Edited by Maryal on September 23, 2018 2:14PM0 -
Takis1979✭✭✭It doesn't have to go live to test it, just run medium with dual wield skill line that gives aoe reduction in the place of evasion and then we can all sit and talk about itEdited by Takis1979 on September 23, 2018 2:26PM0
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WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭If Evasion stays 25% and stacks with Lekis I'm quitting this gameIt doesn't have to go live to test it, just run medium with dual wield skill line that gives aoe reduction in the place of evasion and then we can all sit and talk about it
That's what we're doing. I have run Blade Cloak and fought against it and can absolutely feel the difference, and now they're extending that AoE reduction to a lot more builds.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP1 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.
But you're missing the point(s). It is generally excepted that Medium Armor is broken. One way recognize this is to play Medium Armor in PVP and observe that you literally die from full health with 1 or 2 hits. Templar's are especially tough on Medium Armor builds because the ZOS has designed finisher skills where as high as 50% health the skill enters damage amplication finishing mode. You hit a Light Armor with RadiantXYZ and it hits their shield, you hit Heavy and they can block through it, you hit Medium and you just 1-shot them dead. And There Is No Counter! On occasion, you can break LOS, but its the execption. There is nothing you can do but die.
As a general design principle no game should deliberately setup the combat system so with one button press the other player dies. It's really poor design. Well this is exactly what they've done. This is not a Templar thing, this is a fix Medium Armor thing. If ZOS were to just increase AOE skill damage by 25% then nothing was accomplished.
That said Medium is trading the 15% passive dodge of 100% of damage for 100% chance of 25% mitigation of just AOE damage. As a day in day out 7 Medium Armor who always runs Deadly Cload in PVE (you have to), who always runs Shuffle in PVP, this is not a buff, but a nerf for Medium Armor.
When you are being melted with 2x more damage than needed, 2x - 25% still kill Is you just as well.
Anyway back to the main point, the whole of this change is to make Medium less than total squish. A way to do that is to reduce the damage Medium Armor builds take, which is exactly the point of the change.
Why they opted for the fix to apply to only a subset of damage is a bit odd however. I'm not that fond of it at all. If PVE I already run Deadly so nothing gained. In PVP I run Shuffle which I've now lost. The trade-in for AOE mitigation is meh and won't help one bit.
What they should have done is dropped Passive Dodge AND THEN adjusted the harsh Dodge Roll penalty accordingly to allow skilled and explict use of Dodge Rolling a core to Medium Armor builds.
Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on September 23, 2018 11:06PM1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.
In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.
Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.
Yup and outside of Cloak Nightblades have the worst survivability so it's a much needed buff to their defenses. As far as everyone's Ult is concerned the solution is simple, use the 2H Ult in conjunction with Balorgh. As for Jabs having its damage nerfed tough cookies it's undodgeable. At least your landing your hits while someone is dodge rolling whereas Surprise Attack is doing 0% damage because it's missing.
The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.
In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.
Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.
Yup and outside of Cloak Nightblades have the worst survivability so it's a much needed buff to their defenses. As far as everyone's Ult is concerned the solution is simple, use the 2H Ult in conjunction with Balorgh. As for Jabs having its damage nerfed tough cookies it's undodgeable. At least your landing your hits while someone is dodge rolling whereas Surprise Attack is doing 0% damage because it's missing.
The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.
Stamplar definitely is not going to be in a strong spot because their spammable is considered AoE and their ult is AoE. The meta will leave very little LA users in the field due to idiotic shield changes as magicka users are now more or less funneled into HA. Unless they want to run out of resources so quick with blocking. Stamblade, as it always have, will be the only top dog as they stand to gain the most with new sets, built-in Major Defile, damage buffs and the best mitigation tool in the game.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel4 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.
...You hit a Light Armor with RadiantXYZ and it hits their shield, you hit Heavy and they can block through it, you hit Medium and you just 1-shot them dead. And There Is No Counter! On occasion, you can break LOS, but its the execption...
I see this little piece of misinformation expressed frequently. MA builds can block just as well as HA, albeit with less inherent mitigation. Too many MA players try to just roll-dodge through everything and end up flat on the ground out-of-stamina, when judicious application of blocking could make all the difference.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.
In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.
Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.
Yup and outside of Cloak Nightblades have the worst survivability so it's a much needed buff to their defenses. As far as everyone's Ult is concerned the solution is simple, use the 2H Ult in conjunction with Balorgh. As for Jabs having its damage nerfed tough cookies it's undodgeable. At least your landing your hits while someone is dodge rolling whereas Surprise Attack is doing 0% damage because it's missing.
The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.
Stamplar definitely is not going to be in a strong spot because their spammable is considered AoE and their ult is AoE. The meta will leave very little LA users in the field due to idiotic shield changes as magicka users are now more or less funneled into HA. Unless they want to run out of resources so quick with blocking. Stamblade, as it always have, will be the only top dog as they stand to gain the most with new sets, built-in Major Defile, damage buffs and the best mitigation tool in the game.
If you think stamblades have been meta then you haven't been paying attention.0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)Just change Leki to grant major evasion instead.Aznox
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Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Templar sapmmable getting reduced by 25% was something we're going to bring up to the devs attention.
But you're missing the point(s). It is generally excepted that Medium Armor is broken. One way recognize this is to play Medium Armor in PVP and observe that you literally die from full health with 1 or 2 hits. Templar's are especially tough on Medium Armor builds because the ZOS has designed finisher skills where as high as 50% health the skill enters damage amplication finishing mode. You hit a Light Armor with RadiantXYZ and it hits their shield, you hit Heavy and they can block through it, you hit Medium and you just 1-shot them dead. And There Is No Counter! On occasion, you can break LOS, but its the execption. There is nothing you can do but die.
As a general design principle no game should deliberately setup the combat system so with one button press the other player dies. It's really poor design. Well this is exactly what they've done. This is not a Templar thing, this is a fix Medium Armor thing. If ZOS were to just increase AOE skill damage by 25% then nothing was accomplished.
That said Medium is trading the 15% passive dodge of 100% of damage for 100% chance of 25% mitigation of just AOE damage. As a day in day out 7 Medium Armor who always runs Deadly Cload in PVE (you have to), who always runs Shuffle in PVP, this is not a buff, but a nerf for Medium Armor.
When you are being melted with 2x more damage than needed, 2x - 25% still kill Is you just as well.
Anyway back to the main point, the whole of this change is to make Medium less than total squish. A way to do that is to reduce the damage Medium Armor builds take, which is exactly the point of the change.
Why they opted for the fix to apply to only a subset of damage is a bit odd however. I'm not that fond of it at all. If PVE I already run Deadly so nothing gained. In PVP I run Shuffle which I've now lost. The trade-in for AOE mitigation is meh and won't help one bit.
What they should have done is dropped Passive Dodge AND THEN adjusted the harsh Dodge Roll penalty accordingly to allow skilled and explict use of Dodge Rolling a core to Medium Armor builds.
I am not a class rep... which i deem good for everyones health., but I agree with @Joy_Division to discuss the topic with the devs.
As for the rest... I main a stamplar. I play most content offered by eso (on a non progress level), and I agree that evasion changes will hit hard - in PVP. Imo, not because the passive dogde chance is gone, one can live quite comfortably without it in PVP.
Adding to it the changes to evasion add a favourable buff to medium armor (DW -> so I know how the aoe reduction effects eg siege damage and PVP in general) especially when we look at the PVE side of things. In PVP, the damage reduction is creating a damage loss for any build using/relying on aoe damage (including siege tactics as well as weapon skills like steel tornado... or jabs). Imo this effect of the changes was not fully considered by the DEVs, hence: I really hope the class reps discuss this in their next meeting and find a solution (or explanation) to that ONE SIDE of the changes beeing heavily unfavourable to many players.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)This is a buff against the spin to win meta. I think it's a step in the right direction.0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Major Evasion 10% Minor 5%
The stamplar is going to be in a strong spot this update. I'm curious who will be top dog now.
Heavy armor stamina nightblade, as it has been for over a year now.0 -
_Ahala_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major Evasion 15% Minor 5%This change is wonderful for medium armor... but the way zos introduced it means that heavy can still equip blur or blade cloak and get 25% aoe damage resistance to what would usually be their weakness... if this was 25% single target resistance, nightblades would lose it and complain until it was changed... Is 2k stam for 15s of major protection against some classes really a fair trade off? As it stands it really only benefits nightblades in PvP without any trade offs from a defensive and offensivive perspective so it’s probably gonna go live... long live class balance...Edited by _Ahala_ on September 24, 2018 3:02PM1
