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Pvp causing to many nerfs
scionix90
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I’m sure I’ll probably catch a lot of *** for this but with the new nets coming out I had to get this out. Why do pvp players have to complain about stuff being OP which as a result gets something nerfed which will literally #%#% some players and builds in trials..There are a lot of ppl that ONLY pvp so don’t know how these nerfs mess with pve players..and I’m sure they don’t care - which is fine. But it’s always the same, once the thing they complain about gets nerfed they will find something new and that will also eventually be nerfed..I feel bad for sorcs who will have to have a one second cast time on their shields in pve for example. Or executes causing 30% more. I know there will be ppl who say if it messes them up that bad in pve then they were never good to begin with, etc. And that’s ok, not like what I’m saying matters anyway lol. Just *** I guess 😭😁
[Edited for profanity]
Edited by ZOS_Mika on September 24, 2018 3:29PM [Edited for profanity]
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weedgenius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree sooo much. For example, everyone's talking about cloak nerfs as if Cyrodiil is literally the only place NBs can use cloak. I rely on cloak sooo much on a daily basis for escaping guards, pickpocketing and other thieving, etc.PS4 NA
Better Homes & Gardens13 -
The_Camper✭✭✭✭✭Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.60 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sure, let’s all pretend that *nothing* gets nerfed because of PVE content. As if we haven’t had this conversation 1,000 times here already..
And yeah, even when pvp does call for nerfs more often, it’s for a pretty obvious reason. If your groupmate in a dungeon is doing stupidly well and is steamrolling the content for you, you probably aren’t going to complain. But if an ability/set is obviously broken or over performing in pvp, of course we’re going to complain because it directly impacts *our* experience in a negative way.
Edited by Stovahkiin on September 22, 2018 3:27PMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!17 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Didn’t they nerf them for pve? Lol plus there’s always going to be complaints no matter what content you play, let’s not be bias here.5 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
Really?
Spoiler
This change makes damage shields function more consistently with the rest of the game’s mechanics. It means that damage shields are more powerful in PvE content since monsters generally don’t reduce armor. Heavy Armor players in particular will receive much more effective damage shields now. This is intended to make damage shields a more potent tools for tanks. We will be monitoring this change closely throughout the PTS cycle and will make adjustments as necessary.
In addition to this change, there are several other damage shield adjustments listed below in the specific abilities section.4 -
scionix90✭✭✭The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
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Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Without all the other stuff..... yes, it's annoying when a game attempts to balance (PvP/PvE) and ends up screwing over (PvE/PvP).
(As someone who personally dislikes PvP and a good fraction of the people who play it, I'm annoyed when PvE gets messed up by laughable MMO attempts at PvP "balance". But I know that it can go both ways. That's why I generally think that PvE and PvP games should be separate, so the designers can do the best they can, instead of constantly flinging a pendulum back and forth & messing something up.)4 -
scionix90✭✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »Sure, let’s all pretend that *nothing* gets nerfed because of PVE content. As if we haven’t had this conversation 1,000 times here already..
And yeah, even when pvp does call for nerfs more often, it’s for a pretty obvious reason. If your groupmate in a dungeon is doing stupidly well and is steamrolling the content for you, you probably aren’t going to complain. But if an ability/set is obviously broken or over performing in pvp, of course we’re going to complain because it directly impacts *our* experience in a negative way.
Sorry man, that may be true in some cases but their are TONS of players who will get their butts handed to them and they think just because they lost..drumroll please..their oponet must have been using an ability that’s broken or over powered. Lots of ppl want to blame that on the fact they suck. Not saying you or anyone in particular but it’s true. And again I did not say that it’s the case all the time.
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Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭When I read the title I had already an idea ready that ''PvP players would be the opposite of nerds, as they care not for the world the game is set in.''
Then I realized you meant nerfs instead of nerds...4 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.14 -
scionix90✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Without all the other stuff..... yes, it's annoying when a game attempts to balance (PvP/PvE) and ends up screwing over (PvE/PvP).
(As someone who personally dislikes PvP and a good fraction of the people who play it, I'm annoyed when PvE gets messed up by laughable MMO attempts at PvP "balance". But I know that it can go both ways. That's why I generally think that PvE and PvP games should be separate, so the designers can do the best they can, instead of constantly flinging a pendulum back and forth & messing something up.)
Yes I agree!! They should be separated and when a player enters the pvp zone their skills can be altered or something like that. They are going for the one size fits ALL approach with skills.5 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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Exactly, because ZoS only cares about PvP with it being the “favorite child” while they ignore and screw over PvE players. There’s no good balance, and there can never be a good one because of this.Imperial_Voice wrote: »The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.
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Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
Exactly, because ZoS only cares about PvP with it being the “favorite child” while they ignore and screw over PvE players. There’s no good balance, and there can never be a good one because of this.Imperial_Voice wrote: »The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.
...so they adjusted to fix PvE because they love PvP.....
I dont think you read anything at all, i think you formed a very uninformed opinion and then just took the first opportunity to espouse that belief even though it didnt fit in the conversation logically.6 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭We are all nerds (some hot, some not
) and many of us play both PvP & PvE of some sort.
The devs are responsible for developing the skills in such a way that there is balance in all areas. They have tied their own hands with lack of options/tools, closed off obvious balance paths other mmo devs would embrace, and change skills to benefit certain builds / play-styles at the cost and sometimes deletion of others. None of that is the fault of players.
Think of how much more responsive and comprehensive balancing could be if each skill had 3 morph options instead of 2... (as just one example)
Edited by Enkil on September 22, 2018 4:44PM3 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
Exactly, because ZoS only cares about PvP with it being the “favorite child” while they ignore and screw over PvE players. There’s no good balance, and there can never be a good one because of this.Imperial_Voice wrote: »The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.
Pffffft. You think that PvP is Zeni’s “favorite child”? The pvp community has been largely neglected for the last four years. Meanwhile, Cyrodiil server performance and balance went out the window.Edited by Stovahkiin on September 22, 2018 4:17PMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!12 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »Hey all,
Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.
First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.
The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.
If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.
In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.3 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stovahkiin wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
Exactly, because ZoS only cares about PvP with it being the “favorite child” while they ignore and screw over PvE players. There’s no good balance, and there can never be a good one because of this.Imperial_Voice wrote: »The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.
Pffffft. You think that PvP is Zeni’s “favorite child”? The pvp community has been largely neglected for the last four years. Meanwhile, Cyrodiil server performance and balance went out the window.
This^ ESO launched a focus on PvP and ZoS discovered within 3 months that PvE was the money maker and has largely ignored PvP for most of development since then. PvP has since been an afterthought because it just isnt what the majority of players are here for.5 -
nemvar✭✭✭✭✭Shields were overperforming in PVE. It's just that nobody who plays this game cares about balance in PVE as long as it doesn't involve damage numbers. These nerfs were targeted at both PVP and PVE. Otherwise they probably wouldn't make them critable and give them a cast time in the same patch.Edited by nemvar on September 22, 2018 4:24PM4 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭Shields were overperforming in PVE. It's just that nobody who plays this game cares about balance in PVE as long as it doesn't involve damage numbers. These nerfs were targeted at both PVP and PVE. Otherwise they probably wouldn't make them critable and give them a cast time in the same patch.
Nothing over performs when it's your only source of mitigation. Apparently you don't do anything in pve other than stand around the wayshrines and challenge pve players to duels because if you did any content what so ever you would know that most mechanics in trials would eat up that shield with one hit. You didn't spam it or stack shields you used it to mitigate damage from big hits or hold onto that last 400 health you had until the next tick of healing springs or breath of life.
You all just screwed yourself because those players that used the "overperforming" shields aren't going to be raiding or hell even playing to carry you through content after this patch.Edited by Splattercat_83 on September 22, 2018 6:03PM1 -
nemvar✭✭✭✭✭Splattercat_83 wrote: »Shields were overperforming in PVE. It's just that nobody who plays this game cares about balance in PVE as long as it doesn't involve damage numbers. These nerfs were targeted at both PVP and PVE. Otherwise they probably wouldn't make them critable and give them a cast time in the same patch.
Nothing over performs when it's your only source of mitigation. Apparently you don't do anything in pve other than stand around the wayshrines and challenge pve players to duels because if you did any content what so ever you would know that most mechanics in trials would eat up that shield with one hit. You didn't spam it or stack shields you used it to mitigate damage from big hits or hold onto that last 400 health you had until the next tick of healing springs or breath of life.
You all just screwed yourself because those players that used the "overperforming" shields aren't going to be raiding or hell even playing to carry you through content after this patch.
I never said that shields needed to be nerfed. I said that they were overperforming because all other forms of mitigation suck.In ZOS's twisted world shields need to be nerfed because the offer the best mitigation. I merely stated how it is, not how it should be.
I personally think that sorc should be reverted to more closely resemble its 1.6 version (aka no rune cage, stun on frag, no streak cost increase, no double curse, blockable curse, slightly longer shield duration than currently) with some changes (most of the stamsorc and pet stuff).
Some anecdotal evidence: When vMA was fresh I tried it out on a magsorc in blue V6 gear and a stamNB in golden v16 gear. With the stamNB I barely managed to get to the poison arena. With the magsorc I made it all the way to Voriak on my first attempt.
I am happy to admit to I am not the best player in the world. Most of the time I play PVP. I mostly play tank in PVE because I find it dull to do damage rotation over and over again.Splattercat_83 wrote: »Nothing over performs when it's your only source of mitigation
This is basically your entire argument. The rest is just an ad hominem. And you are just plain wrong. Shields are not the only source of mitigation. It's just the only form of mitigation that's currently worth a damn for DDs.
After the patch, there will be none. While this does achieve balance I don't think that it's a desirable state because balance does not equal fun or engaging gameplay. Shields provided you with a way to react to what's happening around you. We need more of those mechanics, not less.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Last I checked the dev team nerfs whatever they want. They changed some stuff that I highly doubt had any complaints in PvE or PvP. The problem is that they are using data the WRONG way. Example? They probably thought Artic Blast was a skill that many people though was useless because it has a lower amount of players using it than the other morph. What the data doesn't show is that TANKS, who also happen to always be the lower numbers in PvE and PvP, are using it.
See how data can be deceptive? But that's probably how and what they are using to balance the game, which is why its not surprising to see some changes that make little to no sense.
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BlackLabel✭✭✭
This upcoming patch is primarily pve focused and it’s a shame because It effects pvp darasticly and leads to op things being released. If anything pve efffects pvp as much as the opposite.o PEEKAB00 o
Xbox NA5 -
scionix90✭✭✭Imperial_Voice wrote: »The_Camper wrote: »Get your facts straight mate. they nerfed shields mainly for PVE, because they were over-performing in PVE according to ZOS. and they wanted to make healers relevant in pve instances and shields were on their way.
If anything, PVP players suffered these nerfs because of PVE.
I dunno where you got your information but that is false from what I have read.
He got that information from direct quotes from ZoS staff.
Sure, if you say so.0 -
scionix90✭✭✭Shields were overperforming in PVE. It's just that nobody who plays this game cares about balance in PVE as long as it doesn't involve damage numbers. These nerfs were targeted at both PVP and PVE. Otherwise they probably wouldn't make them critable and give them a cast time in the same patch.
Shields were over performing? Wow yeah that’s an opinion but don’t think just cause you think that way that it’s the case. The shields were just fine. And now when your taking a barrage of damage in a trial or Vma good luck with that cast time. Yeah there are some classes that don’t have shields like that but they have other skills to help them through it. Doesn’t matter now but they were not over powered.
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Ozazz✭✭✭✭I’m sure I’ll probably catch a lot of s#it for this but with the new nets coming out I had to get this out. Why do pvp players have to complain about stuff being OP which as a result gets something nerfed which will literally #%#% some players and builds in trials..There are a lot of ppl that ONLY pvp so don’t know how these nerfs mess with pve players..and I’m sure they don’t care - which is fine. But it’s always the same, once the thing they complain about gets nerfed they will find something new and that will also eventually be nerfed..I feel bad for sorcs who will have to have a one second cast time on their shields in pve for example. Or executes causing 30% more. I know there will be ppl who say if it messes them up that bad in pve then they were never good to begin with, etc. And that’s ok, not like what I’m saying matters anyway lol. Just b#%ching I guess 😭😁
um was it not the pve healers that were complaining about shields making them feel irrelevant in pve.
it goes both ways
and my class is now useless in pvp terms due to a bunch of pver's and horrible inexperienced pvpers3 -
Armatesz✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Eww PvE...
eww those that don't do both pve and pvp but complain about one or the other.Ärmätèsz
Xbox NA
Guildless (by choice)2
This discussion has been closed.