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People Seem to forget about Twilight Matriarch
anatole1234
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After seeing all those QQ post I just wanted to point out sorc has access to a heal on par with breath of life : Twilight matriarch. It would be nice however that sorc's pet would be non-toggeable and just castable like the netch to free up skill spot which sorc desperatly needs.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Besides that it requires two slots vs. a shields one slot that requirement means dumping a skill and reducing ones damage.
Also, they’re unreliable as they die.20 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People who know nothing about the class keep forgetting that you need to shield your pets to keep em alive.Edited by Biro123 on September 21, 2018 7:15PMMinalan owes me a beer.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only problem is that if it takes one bar, some builds that were impossible now would appear and people would beg ZOS to bring back the shielding sorc instead...1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Generally petsorcs also use their damage shields to protect their pets.
When I ran my MagSorc in vMA, I would shield, then heal with the twilight. I'll have to rethink that strategy and practice.5 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me be the first second damn it, third of many to tell you that you need to shield the pet to keep it alive.
Edited by Bergzorn on September 21, 2018 7:17PMno CP PvP PC/EU
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Kerioko✭✭✭✭I main a sorc healer. Sorc pet dies to many end-game PVE mechanics. In any Vet Mode trials, I don't even use the pet because you can't keep it alive. They also die really fast in group PVP. Also, you need a shield to even have a chance at keeping the pet alive, the same shield that takes 1 second to now cast.
So that is three slots you have to use on Sorc bar to maintain something similar to a templar BoL that is full of RNG.
Needing the 3 spaces for a large burst heal wasn't that big of a deal when we also had an overload bar, but now that is gone also.
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anatole1234✭✭✭Let me be the first second damn it, third of many to tell you that you need to shield the pet to keep it alive.
True, if they get some kind of adjustement ( Damage reduction, Non targetable). Also the twilight matriarch heals your pet as well as you. Plus it can be a nice meatshield sometimes.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not to forget there are fights pets are forbidden due to mechanics. vHoF HM ismu first thought. vAA HM my second one.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭anatole1234 wrote: »Let me be the first second damn it, third of many to tell you that you need to shield the pet to keep it alive.
True, if they get some kind of adjustement ( Damage reduction, Non targetable). Also the twilight matriarch heals your pet as well as you. Plus it can be a nice meatshield sometimes.
Aand that's just it.
Sorc needs adjustments in other areas to be able to function with this kind of nerf.Minalan owes me a beer.
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yep. The downstream impact of the shield nerf totally unravels the class from its original design which was pet focused. How many years have dev's been trying to make pets viable and failing. Shields were needed to keep the pets alive, and the overload 3rd bar was needed to provide bar space because of the number of double/triple bar skills sorcs have.
With those gone, might as well delete the pet tree and start over. Replace the shields with a heal or time like dark cloak, the twilight with a burst heal, and the scamp with a tank/dps utility spell. Dark Deal needs to be changed to a instant cast, resource over time skill with little or no cost like EVERY OTHER CLASS HAS.Edited by katorga on September 21, 2018 8:24PM2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You can't keep a pet alive with a cast time on shield. Pets die fast.
Shields are critable, so pets are pretty much dead quickly even if you do cast one.
The pet cast time is ridiculous.
Pets require two slots out of the ten you get, because the devs got rid of overload bar space.
Pets have brain dead AI, and tend to wander, get stuck, suicide charge people, and end up dead. All of the time. You can't make it just follow you forever like engine guardian, which would be sane design.
Lastly, the matriarch is fugly. Nobody wants that thing around.9 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Generally petsorcs also use their damage shields to protect their pets.
When I ran my MagSorc in vMA, I would shield, then heal with the twilight. I'll have to rethink that strategy and practice.
I don't think my volatile familiar has ever died in vMA while I wasn't using ward... is the matriarch squishier?
Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Generally petsorcs also use their damage shields to protect their pets.
When I ran my MagSorc in vMA, I would shield, then heal with the twilight. I'll have to rethink that strategy and practice.
I don't think my volatile familiar has ever died in vMA while I wasn't using ward... is the matriarch squishier?
I couldn't tell you, I usually died before the matriarch did
first time VMA woes. 0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Make the Twilight immortal, then we can talk.
No, because it does damage and can be targeted...That would have to change. And then the heal on it as well...Edited by Kadoin on September 21, 2018 9:32PM0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Make the Twilight immortal, then we can talk.
Or at least instant cast with very very low cost to resummon.
Its silly that a burst heal can die and then have a cast time.3 -
LioraValkyrie✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Make the Twilight immortal, then we can talk.
Here's a man/woman after my own heart. Just make the damn things non-targetable, just graphics for flavour. They are our skills. Nobody's skills should get killed and become unusable for 2.5 seconds. It's not only the deaths, but the fact that THEY BECOME CC'D AND CAN'T BREAK FREE! If they were essentially flavour graphics with no health and not targetable, they would become viable in trials and the 'cheese' in Pvp of hiding behind your pets would be removed.
It seems like such a simple solution to so many problems...Edited by LioraValkyrie on September 21, 2018 10:37PMMistress of Apocrypha - Master PetSorc
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Somewhere✭✭✭✭In addition to making pets immune to several mechanics I think the Rebate passive should be looked at. I've suggested making it proc when your pet dies, allowing you to instant cast a pet for half cost instead for a few seconds, put it on cooldown or something. So then, even if your pet does die (say in a pvp setting even), you get another chance to bring it back really fast without muddling up your rotation.0 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anatole1234 wrote: »Let me be the first second damn it, third of many to tell you that you need to shield the pet to keep it alive.
True, if they get some kind of adjustement ( Damage reduction, Non targetable). Also the twilight matriarch heals your pet as well as you. Plus it can be a nice meatshield sometimes.
Aand that's just it.
Sorc needs adjustments in other areas to be able to function with this kind of nerf.
this nerf, and most of the other *** being laid on the sorc class, should've never made it to pts.
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Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Generally petsorcs also use their damage shields to protect their pets.
When I ran my MagSorc in vMA, I would shield, then heal with the twilight. I'll have to rethink that strategy and practice.
I don't think my volatile familiar has ever died in vMA while I wasn't using ward... is the matriarch squishier?
Matriarch auto-taunts NPCs and has vastly less resilience than scamp. When you have both out (wasting 4 skill slots), she taunts NPCs with priority over scamp.
End result, she spends half of the time dead. So, not only she only heals for 8k with 60k magicka, not only you receive a run speed cripple while resummoning her. Not only it costs a lot of magicka to resummon pets. You also take a long time to resummon her.
Last but not least, pets make trial parties wipe at several trial bosses, so they are downright forbidden.
As of now, magsorcs have solved this embarassing situation in two ways:
1) No pet spec.
2) For mild risk situation, spam pet specced shields so they don't die so easily.
With the nerf, guess what:
1) No pet spec gets no healing are unable to follow your suggestion to use pets.
2) Pet spec gets no effective pet shields any more, and thus is unable to follow your suggestion to use pets.Edited by Vahrokh on September 21, 2018 11:10PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
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ankeor✭✭✭✭✭Pets die easily?
Even if they were immortal I don't want those dumb creatures in my raid runs. They are basicly designed to screw whole group.
No, no thanks.2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭anatole1234 wrote: »After seeing all those QQ post I just wanted to point out sorc has access to a heal on par with breath of life : Twilight matriarch. It would be nice however that sorc's pet would be non-toggeable and just castable like the netch to free up skill spot which sorc desperatly needs.
Slot a defensive that needs a skill slot in your front bar and back bar and then come tell me about QQ'ing like a special snowflake who found the magic answer.
If you want to emulate that, just remove a skill from your bars and play cool with 9 skills in total.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All the other good points in the thread aside... The Sorc pets are annoying, ugly, and a general blight to behold. The last thing I want is to see more enormous flapping wings in my face and stupid purple monkeys every time I'm in a group or in a town or whatever. Mudballs are less annoying than Sorc pets. And I'm glad they're nerfing the bear, too!
THERE, I SAID IT!!
Sorry... I don't really hate you summoners that much... but seriously, I would like to see less garish & overly-large purple pets everywhere, not more. If ZOS would tone down their color and stop them from blocking interaction with objects, I'd be a lot less against the pets.
A decent burst heal doesn't serve the same function as a shield, though... Kind of comparing apples and broccoli here.0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Matriarch needs to be shielded (it has 15k hp or so and low resists) and there's a lot of situations where pets die instantly and/or can kill friendly players. They attrach chain lightning in AA, they attract Starfall in Hel Ra (not sure if they fixed that one), they attrach lightning aoes in vAS, they are getting oneshotted by World Shaper in SO...The list goes on.
Not to mention that they fall behind, get stuck (for example in Selene's Web they wont fall down with you, you have to resummon them) and their AI is pretty much braindead.
Do you see why sorcs dont want to be pigeonholed into using pets?Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭People who never played any pet builds keep mentioning pets. They seem to forget that;
1. Pets are dumb as they keep getting stuck.
2. They die easy when they have health bar.
3. Shields are the only thing that keeps pets alive.
4. Pets have... wait for it... cast time.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel4 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Make the Twilight immortal, then we can talk.
I could agree to that. And make it take just one bar slot. But have it not attack and make it act more like a betty netch as far as staying by the sorc and do its heal like it does now. It appears then as good as BOL but it doesnt get the magicka return of HTD nor do sorcs have the mending passive.1 -
PickleRick✭✭✭Nope, nobody forget about the pet that you can only keep alive by using a 1 second cast time shield. It’s just that pets are even more dead in PvP now that you can’t reliably use shields to keep them alive.
You’re thinking about it in a world where you can spam hardened ward and your pet won’t die before you can do something about it not a world where your only defense for that pet is to use an oppressive 1 second cast time defensive ability.Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.1
