A compromise for the shield nerf

Matthew_Galvanus · September 2018

At this point i feel like nothing we say is going to stop ZoS from completely destroying magsorcs, all for the sake of making their shields not "op" in PvP, but completely ignore how this destroys their viability in all endgame PvE content like Trials and veteran difficulty DLC dungeons. At this point they have tried to justify this change by saying "oh well, healers aren't feeling appreciated in endgame content." If that isn't the biggest crock of shite i've ever heard, but I'm not going to be getting into that because the point of this thread is to offer something to make these shields slightly less god awful.

As of now they have deigned to increase the duration of the shields, as if that fixes the fact it is being given a 1s hard cast. If they had ever asked a player who mains sorcerer they would have realized that shields in PvE rarely ever last the full 6s duration, let alone 9s or 12s. it is how we block a chunk of damage from huge hits, or to rescue ourselves if we are in a bad position. often times those shields bust on hit from the boss. If you really want to make this nerf less awful you need to drastically increase the amount a shield blocks in PvE only. If you expect our shield to last the full 9/12 second duration, then the shield needs to be lofty enough to survive more than a single hit, otherwise that 3/6 second increase to its duration is absolutely meaningless. The only thing you have succeeded in doing is drastically raising the skillcap for sorcerers in endgame content and while this isn't an issue for the top 5% who are masters of their class and can play it no matter what, the rest of the sorcerer community will be forced to completely change their playstyle, or start playing endgame PvE content with a different class altogether.

TL;DR If this goes live, the shields need a drastic increase to how much they block in PvE only.

idk · September 2018

I agree with your first sentance because it’s a high chance EGO has won out over wise decisions and MMO history demonstrates this.

However, Zos has seen reason from time to time. Hopefully they begin to realize a little something about how their game is designed and that this is a bad move.

susmitds · September 2018

This was primarily meant to be a PvE nerf, not a PvP nerf though.

Matthew_Galvanus · September 2018

susmitds wrote: »

This was primarily meant to be a PvE nerf, not a PvP nerf though.

spoken like someone doesn't pay attention to what goes on behind the scenes and during discussions. the whole "we want healers to feel appreciated" spiel is a bunch of bullshite to justify a terrible decision on their part.

if they want to make healers more appreciated why are they only giving this 1s hardcast to sorcerers only? why aren't they nerfing shields and damage mitigations for every class?

their excuse is *** poor and just that, only an excuse that essentially says "we can do whatever we want and you have no say, get over it."

Raammzzaa · September 2018

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

Matthew_Galvanus · September 2018

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

susmitds · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

Every single stamina character suffers from the same and has to be melee range. What do they have?

Raammzzaa · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

In this game you “build” your character. If your toon’s health pool is too low, and they are fragile, then you built your toon that way. Perhaps, adding a few points into health, or a couple heavy armor pieces would help. This will, of course, come at a trade-off, which is exactly the point according to what Rob posted...

Matthew_Galvanus · September 2018

susmitds wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

Every single stamina character suffers from the same and has to be melee range. What do they have?

you mean besides gear with better resistances and a plethura of skills that apply damage reductions or block/deflects incoming projectiles.

Matthew_Galvanus · September 2018

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

In this game you “build” your character. If your toon’s health pool is too low, and they are fragile, then you built your toon that way. Perhaps, adding a few points into health, or a couple heavy armor pieces would help. This will, of course, come at a trade-off, which is exactly the point according to what Rob posted...

so i build protection and trade mediocre damage, for nonexistent damage that is worse than some tanks, thats fun i guess.

Kikke · September 2018

I find it fun how many that seems to not mind that sorc is dead PvP wise. The crittable nerf was enough to effectively remove sorcs from PvP.

The cast time was just trowing dirt at the grave, lol.

AcadianPaladin · September 2018

I play a templar healer and a magsorc dps who uses empowered ward. I strongly agree that if wanting to make healers more necessary, cast delays to shields will not do it. Mages in heavy armor are more likely than trying to hire pocket healers. It has been said many times: What makes healers less valuble than they should be is one shot mechanics.

Justifying shield cast times by saying it will make healers more necessary is absurd.

susmitds · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

Every single stamina character suffers from the same and has to be melee range. What do they have?

you mean besides gear with better resistances and a plethura of skills that apply damage reductions or block/deflects incoming projectiles.

4k more resistance? That's exactly 6% damage reduction. Block/Deflects damage? Not a single-skill blocks or deflects damage. The closest we get is 25% AoE damage reduction from Blade Cloak, which is often not an issue for magsorcs in the first place, due to playing in range.

DMuehlhausen · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

oh so you mean, having a way to save ourselves because our base health pool isn't enough to prevent our deaths isn't good for the meta? gee then maybe they should increase the base health for sorcerers and make them less fragile.

There is the ability to give yourself more health through attributes and glyphs. So the base health is probably enough.

The issue again. you can never balance PvE and PvP in any game it's impossible. the only option is to make skills and gear that are only useable in the PvP areas and not in PvE. Then those can be balanced since they aren't based around killing mobs with millions of health with a group.

nadrokal · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

This was primarily meant to be a PvE nerf, not a PvP nerf though.

spoken like someone doesn't pay attention to what goes on behind the scenes and during discussions. the whole "we want healers to feel appreciated" spiel is a bunch of bullshite to justify a terrible decision on their part.

if they want to make healers more appreciated why are they only giving this 1s hardcast to sorcerers only? why aren't they nerfing shields and damage mitigations for every class?

their excuse is *** poor and just that, only an excuse that essentially says "we can do whatever we want and you have no say, get over it."

Except, they are nerfing more than Sorcerers. It's not just Conjured Ward (and Empowered Ward, and Hardened Ward) that have a cast time, but also Annulment (and Dampen Magic, and Harness Magicka), which can be used by everyone.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

Funny thing is, I am not really worried about this nerf in PVE. Sorcs are Medocire DPS now, and they will be next patch. This is going to hit PVP Sorcs disproportionately harder than any other class, as shields are their only viable defense.

LioraValkyrie · September 2018

Raammzzaa wrote: »

If you read Rob Garrett’s response in the PTS thread what you are suggesting is essentially from their point of view exactly why shield are being nerfed - “it was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS”... in PvE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435648/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-sorcerer#latest

"Casting a damage shield ability on yourself grants you Minor Maim, reducing your damage dealt by 15% for 6 seconds." Boom, problem solved, according to your own criteria of wanting shielding to create DPS loss. C'mon ZoS, there are options other than this cast time which totally wrecks the fluidity of play.

ZOS_Ragnar · September 2018

We have closed this thread as it has not been constructive. There are multiple other threads on this topic and we encourage you to share your thoughts in one of them.