Let's talk about those PTS Evasion changes

Strider__Roshin · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.

CyrusArya · September 2018

Major Evasion 10% Minor 5%

Daus wrote: »

Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.

In general I think this is a good change. You know what I don’t like? How it nerfs literally every stamina class’ damage except for nightblade who also happens to benefit the most from this change defensively. Most people are sick and tired of nightblade getting buffed patch after patch when it’s already the best.

Both medium and heavy stamblade stand to benefit from this change while making 0 sacrifices. Meanwhile stamplars losing damage on jabs, wardens losing on sub assault, Sorcs on hurricane, DK on leap. Everyone on DB. But nightblades? Nightblades make out like theives. Maintaining their offensive strength vs everyone while also taking less damage from everyone. Balanced decisions and game design.

WreckfulAbandon · September 2018

If Evasion stays 25% and stacks with Lekis I'm quitting this game

Daus wrote: »

Medium has been suffering for quite some time now due to its weak survivability, and now that it's finally getting a buff you want it nerfed. How selfish.

Try again. I play medium armor stamplar and stamsorc and this change hurts their damage. especially the stamplar. Because nothing stops heavy from benefitting from the Evasion changes as well. You want to help medium, im on board with that, so lets do that without giving heavy armor builds the AoE mitigation as well.

Jabs is Templar's main spammable and Stamdens rely on Sub Assault. Are Ult combos really strong? Sure, but hurting classes main spammables while ignoring others is not the way to go.

katorga · September 2018

Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Wake up people, NB is about to become the only solo PvP class in ESO.

Just to make the point unmistakeable, NB gets evasion as a class skill, so not limited to medium armor, dual wield, or even a stamina build. lol.

ItsNebula · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

All those players that just spam dodge and rely on passive dodge... will actually need to L2P a little more, get some more skill, and learn to actually dodge

Its one of the VERY few changes for Murk that are actually good.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

17% damage loss is not a big deal? Hm. I guess the dmg on sweeps is already so bad the dmg loss will barely be noticeable xD

The dmg is fine, but in your overall burst then yeah 17% on one skill isn't gonna kill the class.

Sweeps scale the same as jabs, just dont expect to build heavy with 35k hp and expect sweeps to hit hard.

17 percent on your main skill is a big deal. That’s like saying if jabs got a 20 percent damage buff that it wouldn’t be a significant difference.

This buff has been in the game in the form of blade cloak for a long time.

How many people do you see running it?

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Hey for everyone who voted to keep PTS Evasion as is, think about something.

Every stam build's burst combo is nerfed with this Evasion change except stamblade. This change is awful for PvP balance and every one of you who isn't a NB should reconsider what this means.

Leap ---> nerfed
Jabs ---> nerfed
Sub Assault ---> nerfed
DBoS ---> nerfed
Meteor ---> nerfed
Curse (but who cares mSorc dead anyway) ---> nerfed
Hurricane ---> nerfed
Incap + Spectral Arrow/Lethal Arrow + Incap ---> I'm great, how are you?

Wake up people, NB is about to become the only solo PvP class in ESO.

I mean..

Incap just got nerfed.
Bow proc went from free to like 1.8k cost
And lethal isn't even a nb skill.

WreckfulAbandon · September 2018

If Evasion stays 25% and stacks with Lekis I'm quitting this game

ItsNebula wrote: »

All those players that just spam dodge and rely on passive dodge... will actually need to L2P a little more, get some more skill, and learn to actually dodge Its one of the VERY few changes for Murk that are actually good.

Ok that doesn't sound so bad but you got any comment on how pretty much every burst combo other than Incap + Spectral Bow or Lethal Arrow + Incap gets weakened by most people running 25% AoE mitigation?

Curse, Jabs, Sub Assault, and other skills that are the main class identity and dmg source of builds have to eat a big nerf to their dmg output. Next patch just roll heavy bleedblade and enjoy running Evasion and laughing at all those skills while you bleed and burst people down like normal. And I don't think bleeds or NB or heavy armor needs nerfing. ZOS just needs to not **** over the other 4 classes with this Evasion change.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Hey for everyone who voted to keep PTS Evasion as is, think about something.

Every stam build's burst combo is nerfed with this Evasion change except stamblade. This change is awful for PvP balance and every one of you who isn't a NB should reconsider what this means.

Leap ---> nerfed
Jabs ---> nerfed
Sub Assault ---> nerfed
DBoS ---> nerfed
Meteor ---> nerfed
Curse (but who cares mSorc dead anyway) ---> nerfed
Hurricane ---> nerfed
Incap + Spectral Arrow/Lethal Arrow + Incap ---> I'm great, how are you?

Wake up people, NB is about to become the only solo PvP class in ESO.

I mean..

Incap just got nerfed.
Bow proc went from free to like 1.8k cost
And lethal isn't even a nb skill.

1.8k cost is going to be barely noticable, Incap is still an effective ultimate (arguably more utility now that the stun is controlled), and Lethal Arrow is unaffected by the Evasion change. Honestly if they just make Jabs + Sub Assault + Curse aka MAIN CLASS ABILITIES unaffected by this change it will be much more palatable. But right now it looks like blatant NB favoritism.

_Ahala_ · September 2018

Major Evasion 15% Minor 5%

This castrates Magden even more with a 25% reduction on fissure and permafrost damage... just why? It’s like having a cheep easily accessible major protection on shuffle, blade cloak, and blur... this is not at all balanced

CatchMeTrolling · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

leepalmer95 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

17% damage loss is not a big deal? Hm. I guess the dmg on sweeps is already so bad the dmg loss will barely be noticeable xD

The dmg is fine, but in your overall burst then yeah 17% on one skill isn't gonna kill the class.

Sweeps scale the same as jabs, just dont expect to build heavy with 35k hp and expect sweeps to hit hard.

17 percent on your main skill is a big deal. That’s like saying if jabs got a 20 percent damage buff that it wouldn’t be a significant difference.

This buff has been in the game in the form of blade cloak for a long time.

How many people do you see running it?

They aren’t comparable because blade cloak requires you to run dw while you can simply wear medium armor to get evasion. Plus, there’s dw players (possible not to see animation on stam sorc) that run blade cloak. It’s just the fact dw bars are tight so it’s usually that skill or rending. Next patch every medium armor build will run it by default.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

17% damage loss is not a big deal? Hm. I guess the dmg on sweeps is already so bad the dmg loss will barely be noticeable xD

The dmg is fine, but in your overall burst then yeah 17% on one skill isn't gonna kill the class.

Sweeps scale the same as jabs, just dont expect to build heavy with 35k hp and expect sweeps to hit hard.

17 percent on your main skill is a big deal. That’s like saying if jabs got a 20 percent damage buff that it wouldn’t be a significant difference.

This buff has been in the game in the form of blade cloak for a long time.

How many people do you see running it?

They aren’t comparable because blade cloak requires you to run dw while you can simply wear medium armor to get evasion. Plus, there’s dw players (possible not to see animation on stam sorc) that run blade cloak. It’s just the fact dw bars are tight so it’s usually that skill or rending. Next patch every medium armor build will run it by default.

Why will they run it?

It's an expensive skill that yes has some aoe reduction but doesn't help with things like incap/ snipe/ dizzying/ soul assault etc..

I'm not sure its worth the expensive cost to give mitigation to only some skills, medium is squishy enough.

I don't see the point of running medium unless in non cp on a warden or something, even then i wouldn't run shuffle.

olsborg · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

Loosing passiv dodge means medium armor will take more dmg. The change to the dodge mechanic means everyone, but especially medium armor(compared to before) builds will take more dmg. AoE dmg reduction on shuffle means medium armor will take less dmg from aoe.

Whats the problem imo.

Arkangeloski · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

Lol

WreckfulAbandon · September 2018

If Evasion stays 25% and stacks with Lekis I'm quitting this game

olsborg wrote: »

Loosing passiv dodge means medium armor will take more dmg. The change to the dodge mechanic means everyone, but especially medium armor(compared to before) builds will take more dmg. AoE dmg reduction on shuffle means medium armor will take less dmg from aoe.

Whats the problem imo.

"What's the problem?"

Why don't you try to read some of the arguments presented and see what the problem is lol? Class spammables like Jabs getting nerfed is the problem, it already has scaling issues with CP and now tack on a 25% dmg nerf on top.

If you can't learn to survive in medium (I can and do) then please brainstorm a way to improve its survival without taking a nerf hammer to every burst combo other than NB's. Also, the way Evasion is now, you're gonna see plenty of heavy builds and light builds run it too, so much for helping medium lol.

SquareSausage · September 2018

When I look at my death recap it is mostly due to direct damage. Sure DBoS and SubAss and jabs show up from time to time but it's usually wrath, snipe, executioner, dizzy swing, direct damage component of meteor or some proc set etc.
I don't think the damage reduction to AoE is enough of a replacement for the dodge chance loss from the current set up.

Elsterchen · September 2018

Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****

First off: I am pretty pleased that many of us try to discuss this change instead of just demanding a revert.

I think the evasion change was done with PVE in mind ... and in PVE imo it is an amazing buff to medium armor. Everything the playerbase asked for is included: eg. no lazy RNGbased survivabilty, 2H getting better options for medium armor + leveling DW and 2H without destroying either playstile and making medium armor more attractive in the first place (mobs use aoes ... some of them hit pretty hard, too).

With all this, however, the PVP side of things was (somehow) completely neglegted. I feel this still needs to be corrected, either y chaning the way evasion is going to work or by adjusting the PVP-side of the game (eg through battle scaling, unique buffs for PVP (like the AP modifier of doing delves - just for PVP combat), potions or food... in short: literally anything that will make up for the big fat damage nerf many classes will experience in PVP when the evasion changes go live.

In my optinon evasion is unbalanced on live and it will be unbalanced if PTS changes go through. There are plenty options to level this ability -> they should be used.

Ariades_swe · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

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Ariades_swe · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

.

StamWhipCultist · September 2018

if major is 25% minor should be buffed to 10%

Elsterchen · September 2018

Just delete this skill and replace, it's always been some unbalanced ****

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

if major is 25% minor should be buffed to 10%

... NB speaking ...

Show some mercy, its only a game after all.

thankyourat · September 2018

I think this is only a plus. medium armor builds are so squishy for the most part that you can apply alot of pressure by just wearing your spammable with a infused enchant. Light armor and heavy armor builds still won't really have decent access to this buff. So the only players you are really going to lose damage against are medium armor players and they are so squishy it really doesn't matter.

As for the nightblade combo yes it's not effected by this change but you can easy just dodge the combo since it's not aoe to begin with.

Juhasow · September 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

If evasion is not going to evade damage could we atleast change the damn name

You avoid big chunk of AoE dmg.

CatchMeTrolling · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

leepalmer95 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

17% damage loss is not a big deal? Hm. I guess the dmg on sweeps is already so bad the dmg loss will barely be noticeable xD

The dmg is fine, but in your overall burst then yeah 17% on one skill isn't gonna kill the class.

Sweeps scale the same as jabs, just dont expect to build heavy with 35k hp and expect sweeps to hit hard.

17 percent on your main skill is a big deal. That’s like saying if jabs got a 20 percent damage buff that it wouldn’t be a significant difference.

This buff has been in the game in the form of blade cloak for a long time.

How many people do you see running it?

They aren’t comparable because blade cloak requires you to run dw while you can simply wear medium armor to get evasion. Plus, there’s dw players (possible not to see animation on stam sorc) that run blade cloak. It’s just the fact dw bars are tight so it’s usually that skill or rending. Next patch every medium armor build will run it by default.

Why will they run it?

It's an expensive skill that yes has some aoe reduction but doesn't help with things like incap/ snipe/ dizzying/ soul assault etc..

I'm not sure its worth the expensive cost to give mitigation to only some skills, medium is squishy enough.

I don't see the point of running medium unless in non cp on a warden or something, even then i wouldn't run shuffle.

A lot of burst combos involve aoes and if you play solo or small scale it’s inevitable that you’ll get smacked by aoes.

Medium armor is decent once you learn how to survive in it.

Marcus684 · September 2018

I’ve run across quite a few stam builds that seem to passively dodge way too many attacks in a row, and always wondered if people found a way to hack this. The changes to Evasion make me think that maybe my wondering was justified, and this is ZOS’ way of “fixing” it.

thankyourat · September 2018

I'm really not so sure that this is a buff at all though and could be more like a Nerf. The passive dodge chance was good when fighting hard hitting range characters that use mostly single target abilities like magsorc and magblade. I think outright dodging a frag or bow proc is more beneficial than taking a little less AOE damage. Even against melee characters flat out dodging a reverb or surprise attack I feel is better than the damage mitigation.

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

Marcus684 wrote: »

I’ve run across quite a few stam builds that seem to passively dodge way too many attacks in a row, and always wondered if people found a way to hack this. The changes to Evasion make me think that maybe my wondering was justified, and this is ZOS’ way of “fixing” it.

You know I used to think the same thing until I started using Spectre's Eye on my Magicka Templar...

And after extensively experiencing Major Evasion 1st hand, I am firmly convinced that its just random mathematically probability at work...

Most of the time, you will only passively dodge every now and then (which is the norm)...

Sometimes you dont passively dodge at all (and you curse Major Evasion as being worthless)...

But there are times that you passively dodge so much that it seems like the game is cheating for you; at these times all I can do is sit back and laugh about the "15% dodge chance" as it feels like God Mode when its like this...

So yeah, I dont think anyone is cheating as pertains Major Evasion...

I've had people send me hate mail as they are convinced that I'm doing something shady to passively dodge so much, but I'm not doing anything Shady whatsoever...

RighteousBacon · September 2018

Keep Evasion with dodge chance

KingJ wrote: »

Leki reduces your vigor ticks so even if it does stack your weakening yourself to just help against AOE damage.

The change still doesn't make me want to run medium now i have 25% AOE reduction in heavy and still more damage.

Yah you’re right. Heavy armor nightblade never looked better. Just run mirage instead of shuffle and boom, no need for medium

ItsNebula · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

All those players that just spam dodge and rely on passive dodge... will actually need to L2P a little more, get some more skill, and learn to actually dodge Its one of the VERY few changes for Murk that are actually good.

Ok that doesn't sound so bad but you got any comment on how pretty much every burst combo other than Incap + Spectral Bow or Lethal Arrow + Incap gets weakened by most people running 25% AoE mitigation?

Curse, Jabs, Sub Assault, and other skills that are the main class identity and dmg source of builds have to eat a big nerf to their dmg output. Next patch just roll heavy bleedblade and enjoy running Evasion and laughing at all those skills while you bleed and burst people down like normal. And I don't think bleeds or NB or heavy armor needs nerfing. ZOS just needs to not **** over the other 4 classes with this Evasion change.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Hey for everyone who voted to keep PTS Evasion as is, think about something.

Every stam build's burst combo is nerfed with this Evasion change except stamblade. This change is awful for PvP balance and every one of you who isn't a NB should reconsider what this means.

Leap ---> nerfed
Jabs ---> nerfed
Sub Assault ---> nerfed
DBoS ---> nerfed
Meteor ---> nerfed
Curse (but who cares mSorc dead anyway) ---> nerfed
Hurricane ---> nerfed
Incap + Spectral Arrow/Lethal Arrow + Incap ---> I'm great, how are you?

Wake up people, NB is about to become the only solo PvP class in ESO.

I mean..

Incap just got nerfed.
Bow proc went from free to like 1.8k cost
And lethal isn't even a nb skill.

1.8k cost is going to be barely noticable, Incap is still an effective ultimate (arguably more utility now that the stun is controlled), and Lethal Arrow is unaffected by the Evasion change. Honestly if they just make Jabs + Sub Assault + Curse aka MAIN CLASS ABILITIES unaffected by this change it will be much more palatable. But right now it looks like blatant NB favoritism.

Evasion is affecting only what, AoE damage?
Classes still have DoTs, Single Target, Bleeds etc...
25% isnt much at all with how high CP is and on how high you can build your stats... makes players need to build for more damage rather than just a sustain and heal tank... its an amazing change that shoulda been here since beta

mr_wazzabi · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

Having an ability where the game dodges an attack on your behalf is not skilled play. If you dodge an attack, you should actually actively "dodge" it, not have rng save you.

Anyone that depends on evasion as it is on live to survive needs to l2p.

Minno · September 2018

Keep PTS changes (25%/5% reduction Major/Minor)

I dare say this was part of an answer to the high crit dmg we have been seeing lately due to widely available minor force and CP inflation. The other part being dodge chance was too passive and they probably thought certain burst/sustain AOE's were a little too strong for medium users.