I Did vMA on Magsorc With Shield Cast Time on the PTS and It was Hell

Izaki · September 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

ExcaliburESO wrote: »

Finnaly u will feel like stamina dk doing that arena.. welcome to the club

This is about magicka people. Stam have their own damage mitigation (blade cloak).

Stam don't actually need Deadly Cloak, they just need Vigor and block

FrancisCrawford · September 2018

Asardes wrote: »

For example a 17.8K hardened ward (20 CP in Bastion, 42K magicka pool) will be roughly equivalent to about 22-22.5K post patch due to the added resistance. Any player who takes that much damage within 10s should seriously reconsider his play style.

Could you please say more? My death recaps, when I have them, are full of 4-8K hits from bosses, adds and environmental damage alike. How am I supposed to cut that down to a total of ~2K/second and still be effective at dealing damage?

Toc de Malsvi · September 2018

doc_ketamine wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The argument that new players will find it harder to play I simply cannot agree with. Sure new players will struggle with VMA, that is going to happen regardless of what class/resource they are on. New players have the advantage though that they are not set in their minds trying to use a cast time skill as and instant last second prayer for surviving.

You are just plain wrong, Toc, and your comment shows how out of touch the elite can be with new players' perspective. I have been playing for 6 months, have done all of the trials and vet dungeons, and can solo most normal dungeons. I'm no idiot when it comes to mechanics. I have a toon of nearly every class and style. I chose a magsorc pet build to LEARN the vMA mechanics and gave up after 40 hours of attempts, having only made it to round 9 final boss stage. This was over 2 weeks of attempts.

My hope was to gain some CP (I was at 480 then, am ~600 now) and come back. Now, I have to hope I can get it done ONCE before this nerf comes to the live server.

I'm not a nub but am not elite. I hope one day to do vet trials. But with the coming magsorc nerfs - especially the shield which saved literally dozens of attempts - it's likely I'll give up on my hope of getting Maelstrom equipment.

With 6 months of experience and 40 hours in VMA you are not exactly new to the content or game. You may not be as experienced as others but you are far from "new" player I was referring to. You are precisely the type of player that is going to struggle with this change the most because you have become ensconced in a play style that has been changed. Yet you are not experience enough yet to easily adapt.

Also two weeks of attempts isn't really that much when it comes to VMA learning. When VMA was released CP was much lower and it took me three months to clear it for the first time without using any guides. I am a much improved player since then and the initial leap of improvement was precisely because of VMA.

VMA is designed to be the most difficult single player content in game. For single player it is the end game. It should not be simple or easy to learn, it should be quite hard for those that are new. Sorc's of both resources have had it on easy mode for a long time, I got my first Flawless on my stam sorc's first attempt at VMA. I honestly thought I would get Flawless on that Mag Sorc PTS attempt, it wasn't simply "doable" it was easy. You can shield up and face tank mechanics designed to be avoided. Cast time has little to no effect on the performance of shields within VMA, the biggest effect will be in trials and PVP.

Mishkaiel · September 2018

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields

(and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

greylox · September 2018

Nicely done, I've given up on it myself, haven't got the patience, but this will definitely make it harder for beginners.

Kolache · September 2018

Mishkaiel wrote: »

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields (and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

Sorry if you already mentioned this before, but are you able to complete VMA on any other characters? If so, how would you compare the difficulty between them and mag sorc? I can sympathize with people thinking VMA is already hard and will only get harder because of this change, but I think it would be more convincing that shields haven't been a crutch if examples like this eluded to this change making it disproportionately harder for sorcs than other classes.

Mishkaiel · September 2018

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields (and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

Sorry if you already mentioned this before, but are you able to complete VMA on any other characters? If so, how would you compare the difficulty between them and mag sorc? I can sympathize with people thinking VMA is already hard and will only get harder because of this change, but I think it would be more convincing that shields haven't been a crutch if examples like this eluded to this change making it disproportionately harder for sorcs than other classes.

Only on my stamsorc and magsorc, stamsorc first (and that was hellish). I've tried it on every class, stam or mag, but magsorc is the only one I can finish on only because I have iceheart+harness+hardened. There's too much incoming damage for me to survive on other classes. I'm a Templar main too, so not being able to complete it on that toon is embarrassing >.< I've completed it on my magsorc about two dozen times though, and my last time almost got flawless (round six lagged out tho so rip).

Jaimeh · September 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I decided to see how hellish vMA would be in the new Murkmire patch and the stupid cast time on shields. And I was right. It was hell. My score was 464k with 4 vitality and at 1:11. I did take a few pauses, mainly to get potions and food. Now I'll go stage by stage explaining how hellish each was. I will upload a crap quality video soon of the full run (OBS decided to record it in terrible resolution).

Note: I want to state that I don't do vMA very much. This place gives me pretty bad anxiety at times, and I already have the weapons I need, so I rarely touch it. I guess you can consider this run to be average, not of someone who is either new to vMA nor of someone who can do it in their sleep.

Stage 1: There weren't really any clutch moments. I had spent a lot of time on this round and knew what to do. No deaths.
Stage 2: Slightly hard, but the spinning blade damage didn't hurt too much. No deaths.
Stage 3: Again, slightly hard, but probably one of the easiest rounds in vMA. No deaths.
Stage 4: A few times where my shield didn't go up until I was at like half health. No deaths.
Stage 5: This is where it really started to get hellish. At the 4th round, there was literally 2 times my health dropped to under 1k. If I had insta-cast shield, I wouldn't have almost died twice. No deaths tho.
Stage 6: I died this round. 3 times in a row. Once those lurchers started spawning, and the spiders who hate the glowing thing showed up, it was hard. My shield wasn't up in time 3 times in a row during the same round. Insta-cast shields would have saved me. 3 deaths. All to shield not coming up in time,
Stage 7: There as 1 time I died on the last boss due to my own dumbness. 2 times, however, my shield did not come up in time to save me. 3 deaths, 1 to my own mistake and 2 to shield not coming up in time.
Stage 8: This round was painful as well. I went out my way to get better potions here and lower my vamp stage as well. I died once to not getting out of an aoe, which is my fault. However, I did die once due to my shield not coming up in time. 2 deaths, 1 to mistake, 1 to shield not coming up in time.
Stage 9: Now I was worried about the daedroth in this stage, and I was right. I died twice to their fire because my shield did not come up in time. On the current live server, I can avoid dying to them with shield no problem. 1 death was just me being a dodo and dying to an NPC's thrown fire. 3 deaths, 1 due to mistake and 2 to shield not coming up in time.

Death Cause Tally
Player Error: 3
Shield Not Coming Up In time: 8

I suffered to show how stupid this shield cast time is. Sorcs aren't the only ones affected. Magicka nightblades, magicka templars, magicka wardens, and magicka dragonknights all have to suffer with Annulment having a cast time as well, and that shield is more expensive and covers less damage than Hardened Ward.

I HAVE THE "HIGH QUALITY" VIDEO NOW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1lnRi_te4

It doesn't sound like fun

Except for score-runners, who rarely pop a shield, or not even slot it, the rest of the magicka players will have a harder time if the change goes through. And until we will get used to the cast time, so many blunders will happen, because you'll pop a shield to withstand incoming damage or a mechanic gone wrong as it's happenning out of habbit, but then you'll realize 'cast time' and you might be dead by then. It will definitely take some getting used to. I don't think vMA though is a very good example, especially from someone familiar with it, because for example you can cast the shield between spawn points, and in the case of empowering ward you'll have 14 sec, so if you are familiar with vMA, you can make-do in this way. However, if you are a lower CP player trying it for the first time, then that's when I imagine it being a huge pain.

Kolache · September 2018

Mishkaiel wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields (and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

Sorry if you already mentioned this before, but are you able to complete VMA on any other characters? If so, how would you compare the difficulty between them and mag sorc? I can sympathize with people thinking VMA is already hard and will only get harder because of this change, but I think it would be more convincing that shields haven't been a crutch if examples like this eluded to this change making it disproportionately harder for sorcs than other classes.

Only on my stamsorc and magsorc, stamsorc first (and that was hellish). I've tried it on every class, stam or mag, but magsorc is the only one I can finish on only because I have iceheart+harness+hardened. There's too much incoming damage for me to survive on other classes. I'm a Templar main too, so not being able to complete it on that toon is embarrassing >.< I've completed it on my magsorc about two dozen times though, and my last time almost got flawless (round six lagged out tho so rip).

Respectfully, wouldn't that seem to indicate that it is currently easier on mag sorc for you and that the PTS changes would put mag sorc more in line with your other characters? Not meaning to put words in your mouth, just pondering.

idk · September 2018

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No offence to anyone who is still struggling, but this content was designed around 300CP and the classic gear sets.

With the extra 500CP (nearly +200%, also frontloaded), new MS, Gear sets and whatever else, you could change shields to be 3s cast time and new players would still be at a significant advantage compared to players at the arenas inception.

If you went to a new game, you'd learn how to play it in it's current state - You wouldn't be dwelling on the past and whilst I don't agree with the change to shields, new players will learn the arena, as they always have - With or without the change..

Side note: If they removed the cast time, wouldn't that make the arena even easier for sorcs who rely on shields; with the increased uptime etc?

When I first beat vMA during the Orsinium patch all those years ago, Annulment only blocked spell damage, so I didn't even use it--I used Healing Ward.

But why does that matter? We've already established that seasoned vMA players are not going to be hurt by this shield change in vMA, and anyone who cleared vMA back during that original Orsinium patch will fall into that category. "Yay, look at me, I've run that place hundreds of times, including back when it was super hard. I don't care about your plebian concerns."

This is a bad change overall. And for vMA specifically, it will make things harder for the proverbial floor while not really affecting the ceiling. And in a game where the floor and ceiling grow farther apart each patch, how on earth does anyone justify that such a change would be good for "balance"?

Not to long ago Zos wanted to raise the floor and lower the ceiling yet if seems they are just creating a greater disparity.

Mishkaiel · September 2018

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields (and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

Sorry if you already mentioned this before, but are you able to complete VMA on any other characters? If so, how would you compare the difficulty between them and mag sorc? I can sympathize with people thinking VMA is already hard and will only get harder because of this change, but I think it would be more convincing that shields haven't been a crutch if examples like this eluded to this change making it disproportionately harder for sorcs than other classes.

Only on my stamsorc and magsorc, stamsorc first (and that was hellish). I've tried it on every class, stam or mag, but magsorc is the only one I can finish on only because I have iceheart+harness+hardened. There's too much incoming damage for me to survive on other classes. I'm a Templar main too, so not being able to complete it on that toon is embarrassing >.< I've completed it on my magsorc about two dozen times though, and my last time almost got flawless (round six lagged out tho so rip).

Respectfully, wouldn't that seem to indicate that it is currently easier on mag sorc for you and that the PTS changes would put mag sorc more in line with your other characters? Not meaning to put words in your mouth, just pondering.

no offense taken. It might be "putting it in line" with other classes for other players, but for me, who can't complete it on anything except a magsorc (and even then barely), it'll most likely mean I'll stop doing vMA after Murkmire drops :P I do vMA on magsorc because it's the only class I can do it on, not just because it's "easiest."

Asardes · September 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Actually the more I think about the change, the more it makes sense.

Most skills have between 8-12s duration: Curse is 12s, Elemental Blockade and Liquid Lightning are 10s , Scamp pulse is 8s (if you use the pet). The shield will be 9s, which means it lines up pretty well with those skills, especially considering another 1s cast time. Not only does it last 9s, but also it's also bigger in practice, since resistances now also affect the shield. Considering Elemental Defender, Thick Skinned, Hardy, Ironclad CP already affect it, and you can stack pretty high resistance (ex. 15K physical and 19.5K spell with 5L/1M/1H and 30 CP in Spell Shield and Boundless Storm up which amount to 23% and 30% mitigation respectively). So your shields will be 18-25% bigger than now, depending on your CP and they type of incoming damage. That means, you can just pre-buff by casting shield, otherwise do your normal rotation, and still achieve >90% of your DPS by being completely protected since now the shield is less likely to be downed, unless you literally eat damage on purpose. For example a 17.8K hardened ward (20 CP in Bastion, 42K magicka pool) will be roughly equivalent to about 22-22.5K post patch due to the added resistance. Any player who takes that much damage within 10s should seriously reconsider his play style.

Well, shields will be able to be crit on as well in Murkmire, so sorcs and magicka people are gonna get dunked in 3 seconds, regardless of their resists. Fighting stamina people are not fun, and when they can crit high uppercuts, snipes, and whatnot, we're dead. Casting the shield can be interrupted, and the sorc or person with shield will be as good as dead.

The topic is mainly about PvE. In PvP there are other options. For example my Sorcerer runs with Healing Ward only in PvE and it works just fine, and that skill isn't getting a cast time, hence you can still spam it if you have the sustain to do it. Yes, if you have to do something like attacking a zerg inside a tower or passing trough a barrage of siege weapon shots stacking Hardened Ward or Dampen Magicka on top would work.

The_Lex · September 2018

I should run Resto staff (with mutagen and Ward) in all PvE content just to mess with ZOS' idea that shields are reducing the need for healers.

ruikkarikun · September 2018

Look I know there are super players who can finish vMA naked, but the reality is there are more casuals players.

For example my friend didn't finish last boss vMA with pet sorc at last event. It can be L2P issue, but still it means cast time shield will make huge wall between casuals and rest game.

The_Brosteen · September 2018

When shields were decreased to 6 sec way back when someone made a similar post about how vma was unplayable on a magsorc then.

I wonder if the cast time changes players will once again figure out how to build to make sorcs great again.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

swaggasm wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I decided to see how hellish vMA would be in the new Murkmire patch and the stupid cast time on shields. And I was right. It was hell. My score was 464k with 4 vitality and at 1:11. I did take a few pauses, mainly to get potions and food. Now I'll go stage by stage explaining how hellish each was. I will upload a crap quality video soon of the full run (OBS decided to record it in terrible resolution).

Stage 1: There weren't really any clutch moments. I had spent a lot of time on this round and knew what to do. No deaths.
Stage 2: Slightly hard, but the spinning blade damage didn't hurt too much. No deaths.
Stage 3: Again, slightly hard, but probably one of the easiest rounds in vMA. No deaths.
Stage 4: A few times where my shield didn't go up until I was at like half health. No deaths.
Stage 5: This is where it really started to get hellish. At the 4th round, there was literally 2 times my health dropped to under 1k. If I had insta-cast shield, I wouldn't have almost died twice. No deaths tho.
Stage 6: I died this round. 3 times in a row. Once those lurchers started spawning, and the spiders who hate the glowing thing showed up, it was hard. My shield wasn't up in time 3 times in a row during the same round. Insta-cast shields would have saved me. 3 deaths. All to shield not coming up in time,
Stage 7: There as 1 time I died on the last boss due to my own dumbness. 2 times, however, my shield did not come up in time to save me. 3 deaths, 1 to my own mistake and 2 to shield not coming up in time.
Stage 8: This round was painful as well. I went out my way to get better potions here and lower my vamp stage as well. I died once to not getting out of an aoe, which is my fault. However, I did die once due to my shield not coming up in time. 2 deaths, 1 to mistake, 1 to shield not coming up in time.
Stage 9: Now I was worried about the daedroth in this stage, and I was right. I died twice to their fire because my shield did not come up in time. On the current live server, I can avoid dying to them with shield no problem. 1 death was just me being a dodo and dying to an NPC's thrown fire. 3 deaths, 1 due to mistake and 2 to shield not coming up in time.

Death Cause Tally
Player Error: 3
Shield Not Coming Up In time: 8

I suffered to show how stupid this shield cast time is. Sorcs aren't the only ones affected. Magicka nightblades, magicka templars, magicka wardens, and magicka dragonknights all have to suffer with Annulment having a cast time as well, and that shield is more expensive and covers less damage than Hardened Ward.

I don't agree with the shield change but MagSorc is still really easy in vMA with this change. Had no issues even with high latency on the PTS. Haven't tried it in a trial or a PVP situation on the PTS to compare to live but...

Proving once again that ZOS is clueless. This nerf is not going to hurt good players in PVE. They barely use shields, and when they do, they know exactly when and where to cast so all they have to do is hit the button 1 second earlier. I have seen plenty of VMA runs without a shield. Almost any score run of the first 5 trials is done without a shield so they can Double bar IL and run minor force. This is not going to lower the ceiling, its going to lower the floor. And this isnt the only thing. Look at the recent NB changes to "bring them in line." Score pushers don't use funnel health, they don't use refreshing path, and they don't slot shields. In other words, nothing will change for them (except didnt they lower the cost of ele weapon so actually, they got a buff?!?). All it does is hurt progression groups.

And I just realized @code65536 beat me to it as usual.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nox_Noir wrote: »

I can imagine how painful this must have been.
May I ask what kind of scores you are used to getting on live? This might be relevant for sake of comparison, otherwise people might say that 464k is a decent score and therefore sorc will be fine...

My score on PTS was about 20K lower than I'd get on Live.

The content can get done, it's not really the point. It's that the skills impede rather than assist doing so.

Sorc and NB scores were stupid high already, this would only bring them down to more comparable to other classes. At least on the average.

Record DK score is ahead of Record sorc score, Warden is 3k behind that, and templar is about 6k behind that. All of them are over 600k. Only real outliers are NB is too far out in front, and templar is a bit too far behind. NBs dont even need a shield in VMA if they know the spawns.

John_Falstaff · September 2018

@Oreyn_Bearclaw , not arguing in slightest, but just to add - ele weapon got its cost increased (crushing - decreased a bit), and Merciless proc costs magicka too now, so on top side people will take a bit of a hit as well. But of course, floor will take the lion's share of the impact.

pelle412 · September 2018

In a post by Gina Bruno on August 17, one line item from their update 20 goals was:

- Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

Whether the cast time change does anything towards this goal is not clear yet. I'd surmise that top player groups don't use shields anyway since they have expert veteran healers that takes care of all the DPS who can spend their time doing damage instead. Progression groups have healers that are learning content and DPS often use shields to compensate. In this case, the cast time delay may make it harder on progression groups. I think (not sure) the complaint about diminishing healer role is for dungeon content. Healers are often skipped in favor of 3 DPS. Does the shield cast time affect this? Not sure.

vMA is a solo arena. The shield cast time will raise the bar on learning the content for magicka DPS. Is that a bad thing? Maybe, maybe not. I think it will deter more players who have been conditioned that to enter the end game community they need these weapons. What effect that will have on the ESO player population is hard to say at this time, but one thing's already clear, the end game community is rather small already.

Agenericname · September 2018

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Mishkaiel wrote: »

I'm just a scrub when it comes to vMA. I'm almost 1k cp, completed all content in the game, but as a healer main who plays the game for the social aspect, I find vMA difficult and aggravating (also why do solo content in an MMO...?). I can clear it in one go, but it takes an hour and a half and my score averages 400-440k. Ik the mechanics, but it's still rly difficult lol. My main for pve is a magsorc, and while I'm not TOO worried about the cast time to shields (iceheart ftw), I do know that personally I won't be able to do vMA or other content as easily. Yeah there's always the top 2% of the playerbase who can do all of the content in their sleep, but don't forget that the majority of the playerbase, myself included, are just scrubs who "clutch" on conveniences like insta-cast shields (and sigils, thank the nine for sigils!) I'm not saying either to make the content stupidly easy, but changes like this does a good job of widening the gap between skill levels.

Sorry if you already mentioned this before, but are you able to complete VMA on any other characters? If so, how would you compare the difficulty between them and mag sorc? I can sympathize with people thinking VMA is already hard and will only get harder because of this change, but I think it would be more convincing that shields haven't been a crutch if examples like this eluded to this change making it disproportionately harder for sorcs than other classes.

Only on my stamsorc and magsorc, stamsorc first (and that was hellish). I've tried it on every class, stam or mag, but magsorc is the only one I can finish on only because I have iceheart+harness+hardened. There's too much incoming damage for me to survive on other classes. I'm a Templar main too, so not being able to complete it on that toon is embarrassing >.< I've completed it on my magsorc about two dozen times though, and my last time almost got flawless (round six lagged out tho so rip).

Respectfully, wouldn't that seem to indicate that it is currently easier on mag sorc for you and that the PTS changes would put mag sorc more in line with your other characters? Not meaning to put words in your mouth, just pondering.

I run vMA on 3 characters, a magsorc is one. I've gotten further on the magsorc than the other 2. Theres definitely a difference, but I dont think that its success revolves solely around the shield.

Magsorcs have a strong toolkit for initial completion/learning vMA or any like environment. 2 pets, both of which constantly DD, one that serves as a burst heal and the other often ends up tanking.

If I compare the magsorc to my magblade, if the magsorc suddenly finds it harder to complete vMA, because of the cast time added to shields, then my mageblade will as well because of harness magicka. I doubt that it will put them more in line with the other 2 as all 3 will likely find the difficulty has increased.

Juju_beans · September 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

I do not understand your complaint?

You went through vMA with a Sorc on PTS with the current changes, and were successful.

He's a relatively experienced player, and he demonstrated that he was struggling compared to usual runs. New players will struggle too in comparison to what they're usually going through. I thought the point of OP was very simple.

If your play style changed based on having to switch up skills then of course you would struggle the first time playing it.
But they still completed it. Do it a few more times with the new rotations/spells and it becomes easier..right ?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw , not arguing in slightest, but just to add - ele weapon got its cost increased (crushing - decreased a bit), and Merciless proc costs magicka too now, so on top side people will take a bit of a hit as well. But of course, floor will take the lion's share of the impact.

@John_Falstaff
Yeah just looked it up. I knew they did something to it, but couldnt remember. End of the day, NBs in a good raid can sustain just fine with blue food. They did pull back on NB sustain a bit, but buffed sustain generally with the Light Armor changes. I havent tested, but I am guessing that NBs will still be running blue food in good raids. End of the day, sustain is pass fail. You can either sustain without heavys or you cant. I am pretty confident that NBs wont be bothered by this and the point still stands. The best raids wont feel the change, progression groups are going to suffer.

OtarTheMad · September 2018

It's just too funny, didn't ZOS say somewhere that healers felt that shields hurt them and now because of the shields changes most Magicka DPS might have Resto back bars so healers might even be needed as much lol.

"Sorry, we don't need a healer on these pledges, our 3 DPS' all carry resto on back bar so we are good."

Juju_beans · September 2018

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It's just too funny, didn't ZOS say somewhere that healers felt that shields hurt them and now because of the shields changes most Magicka DPS might have Resto back bars so healers might even be needed as much lol.

"Sorry, we don't need a healer on these pledges, our 3 DPS' all carry resto on back bar so we are good."

If the only dps toons in the game are sorcs carrying resto staves then sure.
Do you plan to exclude stamina DPS or those magicka DPS that don't have a resto bar ?

John_Falstaff · September 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

If the only dps toons in the game are sorcs carrying resto staves then sure.
Do you plan to exclude stamina DPS or those magicka DPS that don't have a resto bar ?

All magicka was making use of Annulment and morphs, so nerf to shields will affect all magicka specs. As for excluding stamina - well, Asylum and Cloudrest already took care of it.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2018

The_Brosteen wrote: »

When shields were decreased to 6 sec way back when someone made a similar post about how vma was unplayable on a magsorc then.

I wonder if the cast time changes players will once again figure out how to build to make sorcs great again.

That was also when 10k DPS was the average and 20k DPS was approaching top end.

You don't always have the luxury of pre-anticipating large damage, and no content in the game should be that much of an exercise in memorization.

Even a one second activation delay would be an improvement over 1 second of wide-open, not blocking, interruptable cast delay. (Again, and that's when the skill actually fires when you hit the damn button.

ManDraKE · September 2018

ExcaliburESO wrote: »

Finnaly u will feel like stamina dk doing that arena.. welcome to the club

stamdk is probably one of the easiest classes to do vma clears, for stam at least is the easiest imo. You can skip most of the mechanics with corrosive armor.

SirAndy · September 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ADAPTION IS NOT ALLWAYS THE ANSWER. SOMETIMES THE ONLY THING YOU LEARN IN DEFEAT IS THAT YOU WERE DEFEATED.

A valuable lesson nonetheless ...

Gilvoth · September 2018

maybe now sorcerers will see and understand how much damage the rest of us (especially nightblades) have been dealt, as none of us can have stacked shields like you guys have had since Launch 5+ years ago. welcome to what it is like for us normal people.

Drakkdjinn · September 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

ExcaliburESO wrote: »

Finnaly u will feel like stamina dk doing that arena.. welcome to the club

stamdk is probably one of the easiest classes to do vma clears, for stam at least is the easiest imo. You can skip most of the mechanics with corrosive armor.

I LoL’d

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No offence to anyone who is still struggling, but this content was designed around 300CP and the classic gear sets.

With the extra 500CP (nearly +200%, also frontloaded), new MS, Gear sets and whatever else, you could change shields to be 3s cast time and new players would still be at a significant advantage compared to players at the arenas inception.

If you went to a new game, you'd learn how to play it in it's current state - You wouldn't be dwelling on the past and whilst I don't agree with the change to shields, new players will learn the arena, as they always have - With or without the change..

Side note: If they removed the cast time, wouldn't that make the arena even easier for sorcs who rely on shields; with the increased uptime etc?

When I first beat vMA during the Orsinium patch all those years ago, Annulment only blocked spell damage, so I didn't even use it--I used Healing Ward.

But why does that matter? We've already established that seasoned vMA players are not going to be hurt by this shield change in vMA, and anyone who cleared vMA back during that original Orsinium patch will fall into that category. "Yay, look at me, I've run that place hundreds of times, including back when it was super hard. I don't care about your plebian concerns."

This is a bad change overall. And for vMA specifically, it will make things harder for the proverbial floor while not really affecting the ceiling. And in a game where the floor and ceiling grow farther apart each patch, how on earth does anyone justify that such a change would be good for "balance"?

They cant really justify it. They are just using it to stroke their egos and say VMA is easy. Well, to them I say, guess what. I have run VMA on every spec in this game. I have done it on magic classes with and without a shield. If you have done VMA more than a handful of times, this isnt about you. Of course you can clear it. The point still stands. They have stated more than once that they are trying to shrink the gap between the ceiling and the floor and this change is going to fundamentally go against that concept.