The state of stamsorc next patch

StaticWave · September 2018

This patch, stamsorc is in a very funny position where they seem to do great in PvP, yet never actually received any class buffs. Most of the "buffs" to stamsorc were indirect, such as interrupt giving cc immunity, or the introduction of swift.

Stamsorc's main strengths are slightly greater mobility, good resource sustain, great self heals, and access to a third bar. However, their offensive capability is lackluster. In fact, stamsorc's offense is the worst among stamina classes. Any build a stamsorc uses, other classes can perform better with the same setup. Stamsorc is also the only class that does not have an offensive class stamina skill and ultimate. In short, they do not have a unique offensive capability.

The change to dark deal and overload, if allowed to go live, would further reduce the uniqueness of this class. Dark deal is overperforming because there is no counter play to a cc immune dark deal spammer, but the new change is a little bit too much. The removal of overload is probably the biggest nerf to stamsorc, since the 3rd bar is the main reason why stamsorc differs from other stamina classes. It allows them to have the buffs that other classes naturally get, without sacrificing useful class buffs. I.e. slotting crit surge on 3rd bar and evil hunter on front bar to get both buffs, which is similar to a stamwarden using green lotus.

As a die hard stam sorc main, I want to sincerely ask ZoS a question:

We have no offensive uniqueness. Our mobility, which is supposed to be a class defining aspect, is slowly being matched by stamina builds with 3x swift. Furthermore, we also have not received any direct buffs for the last few patches, so why did ZoS feel the need to nerf stamsorc because some indirect change affected it positively?

I do not know how the class rep program for stamsorc is doing, but I and many other stamsorc mains have been longing for buffs for our class. An offensive class stamina skill, an extra minor/major buff, or even a class stamina ultimate would greatly diversify stamsorc builds and playstyle.

As for the patch note changes, i think some of them need to be looked at. For example, instead of having dark deal return 2k stam over 20s, reduce the duration to 10s instead. As for overload, maybe make one morph does physical damage.

This is not to mention that stamsorc does not fully utilize every single class passive, whereas stamina nb benefits from ALL class passives.

WaltherCarraway · September 2018

I feel sorry for sorc in all specs.

Vapirko · September 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

I feel sorry for sorc in all specs.

Yeah lol, Magicka sorcs got fuuuuucked. A cast time on shields?

The changes get more asinine every patch. I’ve been on break since just after WW patch, waiting to see if it was gonna be worth investing more time and money into with Murkmire, but I just don’t see it. Also the medium armor changes are ***, as are the evasion changes.

Morgul667 · September 2018

Itis not a good time to be a stamsorc

or a magsorc for that matter but I main a stamsorc so you know, buff me, nerf others ^^

Seriously though, it doesnt seem fun to be a stamsorc as everything that was class defining has been taken away (except hurricane for now)

LegacyDM · September 2018

Bleeds and speed.

Hurricane, dawn breaker, insane bleeds and speeds, and steel tornado.

Not sure why you think this class offense is worse than other stam classes. Still fastest class that I see. Except maybe a mageblade running concealed weapon with swift. I constantly get shredded with bleeds and they barely take any damage in return. Now maybe that will change now that passive dodge is gone but currently, I pound the hell out of stam Sorcs with flame clench, caulrons legacy, cripple, crushing shock w/light attack weaving, shock concussion enchant, and assassins will and they shrug off the damage like its nothing and proceed to kite around rocks just for me to end up with a render slash, dawn breaker, and steel tornado to my face. Now add current dark deal and evasion and they become near impossible to kill while utilizing los.

Stam Sorcs are fine.

TBois · September 2018

LegacyDM wrote: »

Bleeds and speed.

Hurricane, dawn breaker, insane bleeds and speeds, and steel tornado.

Not sure why you think this class offense is worse than other stam classes. I constantly get shredded with bleeds and they barely take any damage in return. Now maybe that will change now that passive dodge is gone but currently, I pound the hell out of stam Sorcs with flame clench, caulrons legacy, cripple, crushing shock w/light attack weaving, shock concussion enchant, and assassins will and they shrug off the damage like its nothing and proceed to kite around rocks just for me to end up with a render slash, dawn breaker, and steel tornado to my face. Now add current dark deal and evasion and they become near impossible to kill while utilizing los.

Stam Sorcs are fine.

The only thing in there offensive you mentioned as part of stam sorc toolkit is hurricane, and DKs have better stam class dots. Swift took away our speed advantage as many are reaching speed cap with swift. Literally any stam class can rednering slash/DB/ST you, and wardens and templars can do that much better with shalks and power of the light.

StaticWave · September 2018

LegacyDM wrote: »

Bleeds and speed.

Hurricane, dawn breaker, insane bleeds and speeds, and steel tornado.

Not sure why you think this class offense is worse than other stam classes. Still fastest class that I see. Except maybe a mageblade running concealed weapon with swift. I constantly get shredded with bleeds and they barely take any damage in return. Now maybe that will change now that passive dodge is gone but currently, I pound the hell out of stam Sorcs with flame clench, caulrons legacy, cripple, crushing shock w/light attack weaving, shock concussion enchant, and assassins will and they shrug off the damage like its nothing and proceed to kite around rocks just for me to end up with a render slash, dawn breaker, and steel tornado to my face. Now add current dark deal and evasion and they become near impossible to kill while utilizing los.

Stam Sorcs are fine.

Hurricane is a utility skill, not offensive. Dawnbreaker is not a class ultimate. Bleeds and steel tornado are accessible by any class. 10% more movement speed is not much, considering all stamina classes can achieve nearly the same with 3x swift.

This class' offense is worse than other stam classes because it does not comparably perform well in any department. You want an aoe build? stamden does it better with sub assault. DoT build? Stamdk has the best dots. Single target build? stamnb and stamplar do it better. If you just look at the skills, stamsorc does not have any offensive abilities at all, compared to cutting dive/sub assault of stamdens, jabs/javelin/potl of stamplars, SA/killers blade/spectral bow of stamblades, venomclaw/noxious breath of stamdks. If you die to a hurricane db bleed steel tornado stamsorc, i can guarantee you other classes will kill you faster because they have those extra offensive skills.

Stamsorcs are not weak, but they have the worst offense. That is why they need a buff.

eso_lags · September 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

This patch, stamsorc is in a very funny position where they seem to do great in PvP, yet never actually received any class buffs. Most of the "buffs" to stamsorc were indirect, such as interrupt giving cc immunity, or the introduction of swift.

Stamsorc's main strengths are slightly greater mobility, good resource sustain, great self heals, and access to a third bar. However, their offensive capability is lackluster. In fact, stamsorc's offense is the worse among stamina classes. Any build a stamsorc uses, other classes can perform better with the same setup. Stamsorc is also the only class that does not have an offensive class stamina skill and ultimate. In short, they do not have a unique offensive capability.

The change to dark deal and overload, if allowed to go live, would further reduce the uniqueness of this class. Dark deal is overperforming because there is no counter play to a cc immune dark deal spammer, but the new change is a little bit too much. The removal of overload is probably the biggest nerf to stamsorc, since the 3rd bar is the main reason why stamsorc differs from other stamina classes. It allows them to have the buffs that other classes naturally get, without sacrificing useful class buffs. I.e. slotting crit surge on 3rd bar and evil hunter on front bar to get both buffs, which is similar to a stamwarden using green lotus.

As a die hard stam sorc main, I want to sincerely ask ZoS a question:

We have no offensive uniqueness. Our mobility, which is supposed to be a class defining aspect, is slowly being matched by stamina builds with 3x swift. Furthermore, we also have not received any direct buffs for the last few patches, so why did ZoS feel the need to nerf stamsorc because some indirect change affected it positively?

I do not know how the class rep program for stamsorc is doing, but I and many other stamsorc mains have been longing for buffs for our class. An offensive class stamina skill, an extra minor/major buff, or even a class stamina ultimate would greatly diversify stamsorc builds and playstyle.

As for the patch note changes, i think some of them need to be looked at. For example, instead of having dark deal return 2k stam over 20s, reduce the duration to 10s instead. As for overload, maybe make one morph does physical damage.

This is not to mention that stamsorc does not fully utilize every single class passive, whereas stamina nb benefits from ALL class passives.

I agree with a lot of this. Stam sorc has been in an odd place. I feel like you are forced to make up for a lot on stam sorc with various things like CP and sets. Things like the lack of healing passives, class damage abilities, and class damage buffs like minor berserk or major fracture. But regardless ive been able to do really well on a stam sorc but thats because the few things we do have are good.

There is no reason to change overload. And if they want to then they need to leave a morph with the third bar. That is one huge thing that makes a stam sorc unique. Dark deal is taking a hit but it might not be so bad.. But overload is unacceptable.

MakoFore · September 2018

as a stam sorc main myself- i agree with alot of what you ve said. theyre nerfing the class by taking a cleaver to the only things that make a sorc - class defining abilities since launch, that if removed will eradicate any specialness the class has. i now have dk orcs with 3 swift with more mobility, more tankines, more damage, more healing. the one thing we had - with the overload bar- was utility for a group- the ability to cast maglight- or caltrops to help the group- thats what made us relevant cos it sure wasnt the damage.

each class needs to have its own imbalance- for the classes to be balanced. for example in an fps- some guns have range, but lack aoe and power- a pistol, a rocket launcher has aoe and power- but lacks precision, a sniper has range- but slow reload time- and so on- you get the point.

with classes in this game - their needs to be a similar approach- INITIALLY - DK was tanky, but lacked mobility and burst, templar had great healing, nightblades high damaage and mobility, but low healing, etc, etc. This last patch we saw sorcs with all of it, high mobility, great range- great damage and great healing. and now- with the incoming changes- in order to rectify this- theyve slammed all classes- and their defining characteristics- PLUS THE MESS THAT IS CP- into a bowl of crapola where every class can do everything well- but nothing unique.

I'm trying to keep emotion out of this- but @#$ it- ZOS- STOP WHAT YOURE DOING= aND LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE OVER. Jsust for a little bit- employ a balance designer from another game just for six months to have a look at this- give someone with fresh eyes- a chance to take a look at this heap - because you're clearly not listerning to the player base here. I dont even know what the class rep program was for- cos you just ignored everything they suggested and made up your own minds.

we re all frustrated and sick of the game going in this direction- and the constant adding of a broken system that is CP, adding of more and more overpowered sets, is just making things worse and worse.

BaylorCorvette · September 2018

StamSorc has been my main now for about two years and Static hits the nail on the head.

Take away all of the weapon abilities and fighters guild abilities, because any stamina class can slot those. What is StamSorc left with right now on live? Hurricane, Dark Deal, Crit Surge and Overload. All of those are buffs or utility. Now look at what is happening on PTS. The removal of Overload third bar is huge. As a StamSorc we lack a lot of buffs like Major Savagery (DK, Templar & Warden all get this and NB natively has good crit). Major Fracture? StamSorc doesn't have it but just about every other Stam class does. Minor Berserk? NB and Warden have it.

So if StamSorc doesn't have great buffs in their tool kit they must have really good class passives right? Wrong. All of Dark Magics passive except Unholy Knowledge aren't applicable to StamSorc. All of Daedric Summonings passives except Power Stone aren't applicable to StamSorc. Daedric Protection is iffy considering Bound Armaments is garbage. Plus the fact that StamSorc has to slot more abilities to get various buffs and with the removal of the third Overload bar it will make bar space even more limited. The Storm Calling line is the only line where the passives all work for StamSorc.

So if StamSorc doesn't have great buffs nor great passives in their tool kit they must have excellent group utility, right? Not really. Not unless you want to go Magicka heavy and use abilities like Encase or Rune Prison. However on PTS right now Rune Prison is pretty bad.

Lets talk Dark Deal now. Dark Deal worked great with a StamSorc because of the speed a StamSorc had (although that is diminished now with everyone able to use Swift). However due to the clunkyness of Dark Deal and its cast time you could not use this as a reliable burst heal (like Stam Wardens Soothing Spores). The large appeal to this ability was being able to get a burst of Stamina back. However with the way things are on PTS it got hit pretty hard. However it is still somewhat manageable. I do think 20 seconds is a bit excessive. 5-10 seconds would be much more livable and reasonable IMO. The largest issue I have is the fact that a Stamina Warden can use their Netch and it doesn't cost them anything and it is an instant cast AND it's getting a pretty large sustain buff in PTS. What I think would really help Stamina Sorcs is to make Dark Deal an instant cast and keep the heal where it is at and maybe give only 2k stamina back. This would give a StamSorc their own unique burst heal, like how StamWardens have the burst heal from Soothing Spores, but it would also give a little bit of Stamina back.

Crit Surge and Hurricane are great abilities and help give a StamSorc some uniqueness. However with the way PTS is going right now Crit Surge and Hurricane being the main class defining feature is unacceptable, especially compared to every other Stamina class and what they have available in their tool kit. Lets look at what other Stamina Classes have that really defy them.

Stam Warden: Sub Assault (great burst), Netch (being buffed, doesn't cost anything and is instant cast), Bird of Prey (Major expedition and now minor Berserk just for having it slotted), Shimmering Shield (absorb projectiles and get Major Heroism), Soothing Spores (stamina burst heal for self and group), Green Lotus (more healing and Major Savagery). Not to mention almost all of the class passives aid Stam Warden.

Stam Nightblade: Killer's Blade (great class execute), Ambush (class gap closer with no min. distance), Relentless Focus (great minor buffs AND large burst damage potential), Surprise Attack (fantastic class spammable that gives Major Fracture AND defensive buffs), Mass Hysteria (great CC that drops block), Leeching Strikes (resource sustain tool), great class passives.

Stam Templar: Biting Jabs (so-so damage ability, can be good but also gives Major Savagery), Binding Javelin (class CC that is Stamina based), Power of the Light (good at setting up a burst opportunity and gives Minor Fracture), Extended Ritual (great cleanse and a reasonable price). Class Passives are decent but not great.

Stam DK: In a similar situation as StamSorc in terms of having to use a lot of weapon damage abilities. However with the change to World in Ruin it makes a Poison based DK an interesting build. Overall a StamDK's class passives outshine a StamSorcs by a little bit, with Battle Roar being a fantastic passive for getting a DK back in the fight with a burst of resources. Additonally, StamDK has two ults they have access to but really all three can be useful for a StamDK, while in this PTS cycle the only class ult that a StamSorc would use is Negate.

In summary, every other Stamina based class has a unique feel to it. StamWarden big burst class with lots of self buffs and great suitability from healing it can do, Stam Nightblade fantastic burst class with the ability to pull out of a fight quickly with cloak or its shade, Stam Templar a good all around Stamina class with the ability to cleanse itself cheaply, unlike any other Stamina class and Stam DK, the Stam class that can take a beating while also having a great range of class ults to choose from. StamSorc which used to be the mobility class is seeing that uniqueness fade with Swift jewelry being utilized by most people in PvP and streak being fairly lack luster (expensive, cannot spam and TERRIBLE with elevation changes). The loss of a third bar from Overload is yet another unique feature that StamSorcs lose.