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Will a 1 sec. cast times to shields break the game for all light armor users?
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Expert✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Nerfing Shields with Channel abilities will be the death of us. Why?
Crushing Shock2 -
RMerlin✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.I can`t see how I can keep playing my 4 years old magsorc in PvP with all of these changes.
- 1 sec cast time on shield (make that 1.5 to 2 seconds with Cyro`s permanent lag) - means it`s impossible to recast that mid-fight. So once our initial shield is down, light armored players are gonna die within the next two seconds at most.
- The nerf to Defensive Rune took away our last line of defense against gankers, which means either we walk on foot and spend 1 second every 9 seconds to recast the shield, or we get instant-killed by any single ganker because his combo will complete before that 1.5 delay for the stun to apply
For the first time in four years I see changes that seriously want me to quit my current character - they make a whole class a complete sitting duck in PvP. (and that`s in addition to other nerfs announced to the same class in these same patch notes)
Please, for the love of God, RETHINK these changes. They are completely gameplay-breaking for an entire class in PvP.
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weg0✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Nerfing Shields with Channel abilities will be the death of us. Why?
Crushing Shock
Excellent point. And even more critical, bash! Light armor will have no defenses as soon as the pre-fight casted shield goes down. Just wear heavy and gap-close.1 -
Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Simply unbelievable how utterly detached from the pvp reality of this game the developers are.
This is truly another huge nerf to mag sorcs who are already suffering from tremendous nerfs that are mostly unwarranted now.
I honestly wonder what they are going to nerf next. It is comical at this point.
Did you notice they buffed nightblades?=)Edited by Illuvatarr on September 17, 2018 9:52PM1 -
RMerlin✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.I think we need to have people play with it before we jump to too many conclusions.
Personally though (as a magicka player) I am not entirely against the idea of fixing "oh no I am taking damage shield up, immune lolz" if it feels right playing.
Why are you fine then with a stamina class being able to say "Oh *** I'm taking damage, let's block and dodge roll"? Shields were our only line of defense in PvP. And just like dodging and blocking, our ability to cast shields is limited by the amount of magicka we have. Fight us long enough to make us run out of magicka, and you'll be able to kill us just like we do against stamina classes.
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RMerlin✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.oxygen_thief wrote: »"cast time" does it mean shield cast is interruptible now? it will be pretty funny to be bashed to death by s&b user
Yes confirmed on pts.
Good Lord...
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.I can`t see how I can keep playing my 4 years old magsorc in PvP with all of these changes.
- 1 sec cast time on shield (make that 1.5 to 2 seconds with Cyro`s permanent lag) - means it`s impossible to recast that mid-fight. So once our initial shield is down, light armored players are gonna die within the next two seconds at most.
- The nerf to Defensive Rune took away our last line of defense against gankers, which means either we walk on foot and spend 1 second every 9 seconds to recast the shield, or we get instant-killed by any single ganker because his combo will complete before that 1.5 delay for the stun to apply
For the first time in four years I see changes that seriously want me to quit my current character - they make a whole class a complete sitting duck in PvP. (and that`s in addition to other nerfs announced to the same class in these same patch notes)
Please, for the love of God, RETHINK these changes. They are completely gameplay-breaking for an entire class in PvP.
Correction: It would now take 2s every 9s to recast a single shield. “Instant” skills take 1s, “1s cast” skills take 2s. Forget about shield stacking.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont even know where to start.
In PVE, shields are perhaps a touch strong, but they certainly arent the reason that healers feel useless as ZOS would have you believe. That is 100% trial design and the NB meta. The last thing I want in PVE is anything with a channel, so yeah... not excited, but I dont think it is going to be that drastic.
In PVP, they simply are not OP. Shields and shield stacking has always been simple and effective, but at the cost of being expensive and scaling very poorly when the numbers go against you. I want to reserve judgement until I have time to play, but if I am being honest, this patch does not excite me at all. It is another round of huge sweeping balance changes, which will never be an effective way to balance. It will just shift the meta again, people will rage, and they will do it again in 6 months or so.
As to the shields specifically, well, it just sounds like shield stacking is going to be clunky and less effective. Sorcs are in real trouble in PVP. I see nothing that will help balance this in the notes. It's a nerf any way you slice it, as are the changes to dark deal, and RC. Hard to tell how the overload will play out.
ZOS seems incapable of using anything but a sledgehammer when it comes to balance. My instinct for the first time in a long time is to cancel my sub, and abandon any hope I had of continuing to level my sorc in PVP. Good thing I have a stamblade, because one thing I do know is that they are still firmly on top.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on September 17, 2018 10:15PM5 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Stamblades have won yet again. Evasion changes, cast time on shields... what's next? 6% chance on instantly kill anyone in the area if you cast Focused Aim?Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2 -
Expert✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.If shields will be crittable, make it so we can crit cast a bigger shield. :P And apply resistances to it, lets be fair right?
if you gonna hurt something, what will be the compensation?1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.@ZOS_Wrobel 80% yes so far0 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.WrathOfInnos wrote: »Of all the possible ways to nerf damage shields, I cannot think of one that feels worse than a cast time. I would gladly take a magnitude decrease or cost increase over this.
You know that feeling Templars used to have when they needed a burst heal and could slowly and helplessly watch health bars drain as they channeled a cast time heal? It was awful and nobody used that skill until they removed the cast time last patch.
How about when you are Sorc healing and realize your Twilight is dead and you have to stand there channeling the summon while you watch your teammates die? That’s how all Magicka users can feel when they need a shield now.
It is frustrating, not fun. It does not encourage fast paced gameplay or reward quick reactions. I’m not usually one asking for changes to be reverted, but this one really feels like a mistake. Nobody likes cast times, and heals/shields are literally the worst place for them.
This.Quoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stamblades have won yet again. Evasion changes, cast time on shields... what's next? 6% chance on instantly kill anyone in the area if you cast Focused Aim?
Why do people always think people play 1 class only?
How are stamblades even related to shield nerfs?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
RMerlin✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.ZarkingFrued wrote: »@ZOS_Wrobel 80% yes so far
Knowing how ZOS operates, they will probably reduce cast time from 1s to 0.8s, and call it a day, saying "we listened to your feedback".
I'm pretty pessimistic about the future of my magsorc right now.0 -
Silent99✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.John_Falstaff wrote: »
R.I.P, no more spam shielding at the crematorium guards.....this is probably going to make it quite difficult for people doing vMA for their first time.
Decrease shield effectiveness or increase magicka costs but pls no cast time
Edited by Silent99 on September 18, 2018 3:16AM0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. Shields should not be able to be used immediately when needed.PVE perspective
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Vandril✭✭✭✭No. Shields should not be able to be used immediately when needed.Huh. I just had a thought. Can you now block damage while in a shield? It's been a very long time since I played Magicka (around 4 years), but I recall that blocking didn't used to reduce damage done to the shield.
If the shield can be crit and you can have your resistances mitigate damage to the shield, can you now also mitigate damage to the shield by blocking?Edited by Vandril on September 18, 2018 9:01PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »It's not going to break the game for ALL light armor users, but it has the potential to be a terrible change.
Magsorc PvP is going to be...rough. Until some other playstyle develops, idk.
Some other magicka specs are going to have to be creative, too.
The PvE tactic of shield spamming certain phases might be dead--we'll see. This potentially might lead to higher HP requirements and a heavier emphasis on actual healing rather than debuffing for some characters, but who knows--I just follow strats in PvE, so figuring those implications out is a bit beyond me. It'll be interesting.
resist+crit resists with smaller instant cast shields to help soak up quick burst and escape+cast time shields for sustained dmg is how it's looking to me. Assuming the numbers are what we think they are for resistance/blocking.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.leepalmer95 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stamblades have won yet again. Evasion changes, cast time on shields... what's next? 6% chance on instantly kill anyone in the area if you cast Focused Aim?
Why do people always think people play 1 class only?
How are stamblades even related to shield nerfs?
They are going to be the most benefited because most of these, they can get away with their main defensive skill. And their defensive skill is the only thing that does not have major consequences for usage.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Huh. I just had a thought. Can you now block damage while in a shield? It's been a very long time since I played Magicka (around 4 years), but I recall that blocking didn't used to reduce damage done to the shield.
If the shield can be crit and you can have your resistances mitigate damage to the shield, can you now also mitigate damage to the shield by blocking?
According to the mitigation thread in this section, blocking and it's passives only impact the dmg after the shield is used up.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
raj72616a✭✭✭✭✭Huh. I just had a thought. Can you now block damage while in a shield? It's been a very long time since I played Magicka (around 4 years), but I recall that blocking didn't used to reduce damage done to the shield.
If the shield can be crit and you can have your resistances mitigate damage to the shield, can you now also mitigate damage to the shield by blocking?
According to the mitigation thread in this section, blocking and it's passives only impact the dmg after the shield is used up.
yes but we still block in pve because shields aint thick enough to soak up all the damage (if they were, then we wouldnt need to cast a shield in the first place and can just let the healers heal thru them)
and also there are attacks that would stun or knock us back if not blocked.0 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Adding a cast time to shields makes as much sense as adding one to block or roll dodge. Delayed defense is no defense. Of course if we want to test whether clunky delays are fun and effective why deny stam classes their share of the fun?
This brings up a good point. You know in my times in Cyrodiil, I've had a few raid leaders lecture me on the importance of rapids in PvP. You basically need to get your ass to a keep fast to defend it. Without it there would practically be no defense.0 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭No. Shields should not be able to be used immediately when needed.Huh. I just had a thought. Can you now block damage while in a shield? It's been a very long time since I played Magicka (around 4 years), but I recall that blocking didn't used to reduce damage done to the shield.
If the shield can be crit and you can have your resistances mitigate damage to the shield, can you now also mitigate damage to the shield by blocking?
According to the mitigation thread in this section, blocking and it's passives only impact the dmg after the shield is used up.
Ah, then it was still the same as I remembered it.
So I do wonder if blocking will now reduce damage done to the shield, given that other factors it previously ignored will now function similarly to taking damage without a shield. If so, while it may be harder to cast shields due to the cast time, they may end up much more powerful than they were before. It would be...interesting.
If anyone tests this in the PTR, I hope they post here and let us know.Edited by Vandril on September 19, 2018 3:42AM0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Love or hate mag sorcs, if you think a cast time on shields is a good change then you know nothing about this game. I think for PvE it will be doable, but for PvP magicka sorcs will crumble and to a lesser extend magblades (magplars will still have options as will mag dks. not sure about magdens) I don't know any mag sorcs, good or bad, that will be able to cope with a 1 second cast time. It will *** up rotations, screw your defenses when you need them most, make fighting out numbered literally impossible and for that matter make 1v1s against an equally skilled opponent damn near impossible. This would actually be the equivalent of giving vigor a cast time and making it interruptible. Giving the shields a cast time won't necessarily stop shield stacking either. It will just stop shield spam, but at the same time very nearly destroying at least one class. Shields disappear so fast that you typically need to work them into your offensive rotations. Ive seen people claim that now mag sorcs will simply have to choose between offense and defensive. That bs. If you decide to go offensive on someone without a shield, if they have half a brain they'll just wreck you. And tbh I don't really care, mag sorc is one of my newest classes and it wouldn't phase me in the slightest if they deleted them entirely.Edited by Vapirko on September 19, 2018 4:07AM1 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Insta cast Shields Synergised with paper Light Armor. Evade/Roll dodge does not make any sense. Out of Stam = Death sentence in PVP and PVE (Trials) at times.
Are light armor wearers supposed to just use Block? Costs for that are ridiculous on Stam toons not built for it.
The only Instant Shield now is Sheogorath's Healing Ward (I.E. It not landing on me when I need it in PVP) And NO Mag Sorc will be soloing if this goes live.
Wait until Stam toons hear that on the last patch notes iteration that Vigor is getting a 1 sec cast time... j/k
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Lasinagol✭✭✭WTF?! A cast time on shields? Guess I need to check the natch potes!It is weird, I took my sheild off and slotted Boundless Storm while increasing my crit chance and my survival hasn't gone down. Between rolldodging and always doing some damage or anothet crit surge has kept me alive in some pretty stupid red. Not that hard to survive pve with a sorc...the frags would be nice if they were like that pesky nb ability. Keep the healing to when it is not hardcast, still no stun...Altmer Supremist, filthy spell slinger since Nerevar was assasinated0
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Arthalion1✭✭✭Yes. Shields were the only thing keeping light armor wearers alive in much of the content.Has anyone else noticed that pretty much every person who has voted 'No' and commented hasn't even read the poll? They all seem to be talking about it being possible to crit shields. Whilst that is an annoying nerf, it is not game breaking and could be reluctantly accepted.
A one second cast time is a death sentence in pvp. It is already quite difficult to weave in damage while shield stacking when you are fighting a skilled played.
The patch notes generally seem to be a bit of a joke and that is being ignored due to this one horrific change. I have been playing templar recently which in 1v1 combat I believe to be the strongest class in game, yet templars are receiving further buffs and sorcs are being kicked in the dirt. Further buffs to 'Jesus beam' and increased damage, which also means increased healing from jabs, really?!?0
