MEDIUM ARMOR
acw37162
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The only change to medium is the 7 / 15 damage increase form a passive that already exists.
There wasn't even a small rework to evasion, an already outdated skill with a cheaper better option in the 2H skill line.
Now evasion gives the same buff as blade cloak a cheaper better skill skill with passive damage attached to it or major expedition depending on morph choice.
At least make the armor skills, there are only three in each tree interesting, I mean give me at least half a reason to put one on my bar.
While I am on the subject of armor skill heavy's needs work to.
Pleases tell me there is more coming for medium armor in upcoming patch notes, I feel depressed I waited all weekend for one change to medium armor.
[edited for profanity bypass]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 16, 2025 2:31PM There wasn't even a small rework to evasion, an already outdated skill with a cheaper better option in the 2H skill line.
Now evasion gives the same buff as blade cloak a cheaper better skill skill with passive damage attached to it or major expedition depending on morph choice.
At least make the armor skills, there are only three in each tree interesting, I mean give me at least half a reason to put one on my bar.
While I am on the subject of armor skill heavy's needs work to.
Pleases tell me there is more coming for medium armor in upcoming patch notes, I feel depressed I waited all weekend for one change to medium armor.
[edited for profanity bypass]
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What medium armor needs imo, is the snare and root immunity increased in duration to atleast 8s per cast, its a whooping 3.8k cost for casting that skill, pls see reason.
PC EU
PvP only6 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
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Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations22 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.
Yes, its good, its great actually imo and much prefer that over the 15% passive dodge, however...what I feel Shuffle needs is a great increase in the duration of snare and root immunity. The skill costs almost ~4k stam and having ~3seconds immunity is way, way too short.
PC EU
PvP only12 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shuffle costs to much for only having roughly 2 seconds of immunityFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info5 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.
...
15% dmg mitigation basically but you actually dodge the dmg altogether.
25% dmg reduction on aoe's but you still actually take dmg...
The 15% is way, way better. The aoe isn't going to help me with snipe, power of the light, beam, dizzying, surprise attack, incap, etc...PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...9 -
Methariorn✭✭✭Agree: they should reduce the cost of shuffle or at last boost the immunity to 6sec.Methariorn sorc EU server AD
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If we wanted the AoE reduction we could run Blade Cloak
clearly, that wasn't what people wanted6 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how shuffle’s cost is STILL undertuned on its cost, which was increased back in the day to compensate for it being useable in heavy armor, which hasn’t been the case for many patches now.
Shuffle sux & has for a while5 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.
On a skill you can get cheaper with added benefits in blade cloak.
No one is saying it’s not good buff but the buffs it offers are outclassed by momentum and blade cloak.
And if you want to get really in the weeds the new black rose prison dual wields offer you a cheaper better version with 3 seconds of major protection, at significantly less stamina cost
Edited by acw37162 on September 17, 2018 8:55PM3 -
Ertosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭It should also be pointed out that Light Armor is getting a passive which increases the wearer's movement speed for each piece of light armor worn. This steals some of the uniqueness from Medium Armor.PC NA @Ertosi♠♦ My Team ♥♣
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No new crafting or game systems for 2019? "Season of the Dragon" would be better named "The Year of no New Major Features"
https://i.imgur.com/TPscgS9.jpg to see major features of the last few years compared.
https://i.imgur.com/X8qY0gP.jpg to see a detailed comparison of this year's Q1 to the last two Q1s.
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https://i.imgur.com/jrHe5h8.jpg to see a projected comparison of the full years and what 2019's Q4 will need to catch up.
Unsubbed January 15th, 2019 due to the lack of any new substantial features shown to be coming in 2019.12 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The 25% ape dmg reduction is no way better than 15% dodge chance especially since you could use both.
I garuntee those who think this new version of shuffle is great will quickly back track and regret it once this goes live and realize how much extra damage you take in an already squishy armorFormerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
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Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
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So 2h users who want rally and rootbreak have no reason to use shuffle? Really?
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Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
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So 2h users who want rally and rootbreak have no reason to use shuffle? Really?
Use 3 well fitted and dodge roll instead.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The 25% ape dmg reduction is no way better than 15% dodge chance especially since you could use both.
I garuntee those who think this new version of shuffle is great will quickly back track and regret it once this goes live and realize how much extra damage you take in an already squishy armor
Those apes can hit really hard though...
On a serious note, the buff itself is great better than single target evasion in many situations. The main gripe is that it's the same buff as Quick Cloak and many DW builds were build around that mobility of Quick Cloak while also running Shuffle. Those builds lose the single target evasion with no compensation.
Might as well drop Quick Cloak altogether, go for speed pots instead and use another skill like meditation to help with the loss sustain from not having tripots. Cause Shuffle is undroppable anyway.
Edited by Maulkin on September 17, 2018 11:36PMEU | PC | AD4 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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That's all fine and dandy but why use shuffle and run medium when i can run Heavy and blade cloak woth FM.I have the same AOE reduction plus damage along with longer Snare and root immunity and better healing.Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
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So 2h users who want rally and rootbreak have no reason to use shuffle? Really?
Use 3 well fitted and dodge roll instead.
What? I'm talking about the new major evasion. It's strong.Edited by Nyladreas on September 18, 2018 12:49AM0 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.
The damage boost for medium armor to 7/15% from 6/12% is pretty nice. The loss of passive dodge is really, really had to judge. My current PvP play style of 7 Medium all Devine, no crit resist, ... is all glass canon. It's dodge roll, major expedition and Shuffle for survivability with a paultry 19K of health. I currently keep Shuffle up 100%.
On one hand if 1.5 attacks out of every 10 are dodged its like having 15% damage reduction shield. On the other it only takes like 3 good hits and you're down. So from a damage perspective I often wonder if it's of any value. But the rng randomess makes it a bad bet as a foundation for Medium Armor survivability. So I'm glad its gone, but I wish it had some compensation in say adjustments to Dodge Roll penalty and/or effectiveness.
From a CC immobility stand point, Shuffle/Elude is still just way too short. How many have stood at a resource and watch some ball group dude you just spent 10 mins chasing and finally dug out of tower then rez at a camp and come running back up spamming forward momentum while 15 guys are spamming talons, caltrips, shield charge stuns, cages, ... and they just walk through all of it right back up the tower.
Meanwhile, I can spam Shuffle and dodge roll like a pill bug and seem to get hit, rooted, and stunned from all sides within seconds. I just don't know if Shuffle ever really worked, but I loved the visual with Ice Cloak.
With regards the new capability of AOE reduction while 25% sounds like (and is) pretty decent its sort betwixt and between. Don't really need it anyway for Caltrips because you are not going to stand there anyway. But it may buy you what like an extra second (?) if you are being hit by Eye Of Flame, any Cold Fire Seige, etc ...
If you are 19K health / 7 Med. does it really matter if you die from 30K of oil or 22.5K (25% less), dead is still dead. I'm going to watch the numbers, but I don't think this means that now I can take a meteor or dawnbreaker full on where I could not before. Maybe it does.
But I'm pretty happy with Medium Armor Agility damage buff. Now if only the un-counterable RadiantXXX skill sdidn't 1-shot me that would be news.
Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on September 18, 2018 1:39AM1 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭Pretty much medium armor is worst that ever before with an homogenized "buff" adquirable tru dual wield skill line... evasion and snare removal for a mere 1 sec with 5/5 med was the only thing making it worth using (and it is weak compared to fwm) and to be honest I rather move away from the aoe than tankin it in medium armor lol! I am more concern about those occasional dodges from that in cap or Cristal frag when you are hard cc'd lol now you gonna eat all the direct dMG... again in "medium" if I'm going to eat all that direct dMG in "medium" rather do it on heavy armor fwm for the win lol gg zos.Edited by Arkangeloski on September 18, 2018 2:03AM0
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acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is a reason to use Annulment and morphs in PVE and PVP even if that reason is going to take a hit this patch.
There is a reason currently in PVP to run shuffle with very very little reason in PVE to use either morph.
Very few builds use the heavy armor skill either morph PVE or PVP.
These skills should be interesting and have a place obviously there should be morphs trending towards use in PVP or PVE but both heavy and mediums skills need some love and a reason to be slotted.
Also medium passive offer no snare reduction, not to homogenize armor choice but light armor gets snare reduction and medium gets a speed increase? This might be decent give and take if shuffle wasn’t severely outclassed by momentum.3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
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That's all fine and dandy but why use shuffle and run medium when i can run Heavy and blade cloak woth FM.I have the same AOE reduction plus damage along with longer Snare and root immunity and better healing.Guys remember that taking 25% less on: meteors, leaps, dawnbreaker, sieges, jabs, negate, caltrops, etc etc. It's kinda good.
And better base mitigation.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭They did this to evasion because they thought blade cloak was required for end game content due to the reduced aoe damage and they wanted to add a way to get it without DW. They have no concept of why DW is used for end game dps builds.1 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭The change is awesome. People here are so busy complaining that they can’t see a buff0
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jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The change is awesome. People here are so busy complaining that they can’t see a buff
Because it barely qualifies as a buff.
In PVE, nobody will use Shuffle when it costs 3888 stamina and provides the same buff as Blade Cloak, which costs 2268 stamina and also provides damage on top of the AOE reduction. The snare removal and immunity is barely useful in PVE, because snares aren't nearly as prevalent to justify the insane cost. The only buff to medium armour that PVE saw was the 3% increase to weapon damage. That's alright, but at the end of the day, this change does not affect PVE.
In PVP, this will just cause people to switch to Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak. Forward Momentum provides an extra 4-6 seconds of snare immunity, on top of Major Brutality and a HOT for 33 seconds, for 2.1x less stamina than Shuffle. Blade Cloak provides 8 seconds less AOE reduction, but it provides an additional DOT that can proc your dual wield enchants (now it can potentially proc both main and off hand enchants), and if you pick the Quick Cloak morph, it also provides 5 seconds of Major Expedition, for 1.7x less stamina. You get more out of Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak than Shuffle, at a far lower cost.
Assuming my math is right, which it probably isn't but whatever, Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is 2.9x cheaper to maintain than Shuffle, if you want to keep 100% uptime on the snare immunity. That isn't counting over-casting Blade Cloak, either, since Blade Cloak could actually be cast every 2 casts of Forward Momentum, since the Blade Cloak duration is roughly half that of Forward Momentum's snare immunity. So Forward Momentum + Shuffle could actually get even cheaper.
The implications are greater than just foregoing Shuffle, too. The main thing that allows you to run medium in PVP is Shuffle: it provides another, albeit far inferior avenue to gaining snare immunity, which allows you to run Rally instead of Forward Momentum, and the mitigation from Major Evasion somewhat makes up for the lack of innate mitigation. Drop Shuffle, start using Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak, what's the point of running medium armour? Heavy offers better health, health recovery, healing, resistance, sustain (heavy attacks and Constitution), and potentially damage. I'm already thinking of swapping my stamDK over to heavy if Shuffle hits live the way it has currently, and I am certain I'm not the only one who will entertain this thought.
tl;dr This change barely affects PVE, basically nobody will use Shuffle when Blade Cloak is a better form of AOE reduction. This change pushes people away from running medium armour, as Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is a far superior replacement for Shuffle as of this PTS.4 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »They did this to evasion because they thought blade cloak was required for end game content due to the reduced aoe damage and they wanted to add a way to get it without DW. They have no concept of why DW is used for end game dps builds.
That would be fine if 2h and bow or bow and bow were bis for endgame...but dual wield is better pound for pound and dual wield has that ability already, never in my life I would slot shuffle for pve (trials)end game content, The cost is horrible given the fact that most builds run low Regen high dmg no way you can fit that in to a rotation lol.1 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭The change is awesome. People here are so busy complaining that they can’t see a buff
Because it barely qualifies as a buff.
In PVE, nobody will use Shuffle when it costs 3888 stamina and provides the same buff as Blade Cloak, which costs 2268 stamina and also provides damage on top of the AOE reduction. The snare removal and immunity is barely useful in PVE, because snares aren't nearly as prevalent to justify the insane cost. The only buff to medium armour that PVE saw was the 3% increase to weapon damage. That's alright, but at the end of the day, this change does not affect PVE.
In PVP, this will just cause people to switch to Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak. Forward Momentum provides an extra 4-6 seconds of snare immunity, on top of Major Brutality and a HOT for 33 seconds, for 2.1x less stamina than Shuffle. Blade Cloak provides 8 seconds less AOE reduction, but it provides an additional DOT that can proc your dual wield enchants (now it can potentially proc both main and off hand enchants), and if you pick the Quick Cloak morph, it also provides 5 seconds of Major Expedition, for 1.7x less stamina. You get more out of Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak than Shuffle, at a far lower cost.
Assuming my math is right, which it probably isn't but whatever, Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is 2.9x cheaper to maintain than Shuffle, if you want to keep 100% uptime on the snare immunity. That isn't counting over-casting Blade Cloak, either, since Blade Cloak could actually be cast every 2 casts of Forward Momentum, since the Blade Cloak duration is roughly half that of Forward Momentum's snare immunity. So Forward Momentum + Shuffle could actually get even cheaper.
The implications are greater than just foregoing Shuffle, too. The main thing that allows you to run medium in PVP is Shuffle: it provides another, albeit far inferior avenue to gaining snare immunity, which allows you to run Rally instead of Forward Momentum, and the mitigation from Major Evasion somewhat makes up for the lack of innate mitigation. Drop Shuffle, start using Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak, what's the point of running medium armour? Heavy offers better health, health recovery, healing, resistance, sustain (heavy attacks and Constitution), and potentially damage. I'm already thinking of swapping my stamDK over to heavy if Shuffle hits live the way it has currently, and I am certain I'm not the only one who will entertain this thought.
tl;dr This change barely affects PVE, basically nobody will use Shuffle when Blade Cloak is a better form of AOE reduction. This change pushes people away from running medium armour, as Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is a far superior replacement for Shuffle as of this PTS.
Why would HA users all of a sudden start use blade cloak? It provides excactly the same mitigation to aoe today and most heavy pvp builds don't slot it.Edited by Ariades_swe on September 18, 2018 9:36PM2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »The change is awesome. People here are so busy complaining that they can’t see a buff
Because it barely qualifies as a buff.
In PVE, nobody will use Shuffle when it costs 3888 stamina and provides the same buff as Blade Cloak, which costs 2268 stamina and also provides damage on top of the AOE reduction. The snare removal and immunity is barely useful in PVE, because snares aren't nearly as prevalent to justify the insane cost. The only buff to medium armour that PVE saw was the 3% increase to weapon damage. That's alright, but at the end of the day, this change does not affect PVE.
In PVP, this will just cause people to switch to Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak. Forward Momentum provides an extra 4-6 seconds of snare immunity, on top of Major Brutality and a HOT for 33 seconds, for 2.1x less stamina than Shuffle. Blade Cloak provides 8 seconds less AOE reduction, but it provides an additional DOT that can proc your dual wield enchants (now it can potentially proc both main and off hand enchants), and if you pick the Quick Cloak morph, it also provides 5 seconds of Major Expedition, for 1.7x less stamina. You get more out of Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak than Shuffle, at a far lower cost.
Assuming my math is right, which it probably isn't but whatever, Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is 2.9x cheaper to maintain than Shuffle, if you want to keep 100% uptime on the snare immunity. That isn't counting over-casting Blade Cloak, either, since Blade Cloak could actually be cast every 2 casts of Forward Momentum, since the Blade Cloak duration is roughly half that of Forward Momentum's snare immunity. So Forward Momentum + Shuffle could actually get even cheaper.
The implications are greater than just foregoing Shuffle, too. The main thing that allows you to run medium in PVP is Shuffle: it provides another, albeit far inferior avenue to gaining snare immunity, which allows you to run Rally instead of Forward Momentum, and the mitigation from Major Evasion somewhat makes up for the lack of innate mitigation. Drop Shuffle, start using Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak, what's the point of running medium armour? Heavy offers better health, health recovery, healing, resistance, sustain (heavy attacks and Constitution), and potentially damage. I'm already thinking of swapping my stamDK over to heavy if Shuffle hits live the way it has currently, and I am certain I'm not the only one who will entertain this thought.
tl;dr This change barely affects PVE, basically nobody will use Shuffle when Blade Cloak is a better form of AOE reduction. This change pushes people away from running medium armour, as Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is a far superior replacement for Shuffle as of this PTS.
Why would HA users all of a sudden start use blade cloak? It provides excactly the same mitigation to aoe today and most heavy pvp builds don't slot it.
We're talking specifically about Shuffle. If you're a HA user, you don't have access to Shuffle as you don't have 5 pieces of MA, and hence my comment does not apply to you. Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is a better combination providing the same effects as Shuffle, especially considering the vast majority of MA PVP builds already run Rally, and hence don't need another slot for Forward Momentum. They can just replace Shuffle with Blade Cloak, if they're running DW.
Shuffle offers snare removal, 2.5-3.5 seconds worth of snare immunity, and 23 seconds worth of Major Evasion (AOE reduction).
Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak offers snare removal, 8 seconds worth of snare immunity, 33 seconds worth of a heal-over-time effect, 33 seconds worth of Major Brutality, 15 seconds worth of a damage-over-time effect (that is also affected by DW passives, and hence turns into a mini execute at 25% health), and 15 seconds worth of Major Evasion (AOE reduction). If you pick Deadly Cloak, the DOT deals more damage. If you pick Quick Cloak, you also get 5 seconds worth of Major Expedition.
Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak is also far cheaper than Shuffle if you want indefinite snare immunity. My quick napkin math, which doesn't even take into account over-casting Blade Cloak, puts Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak at nearly 3 times less stamina than Shuffle, refreshing all skills when the snare immunity runs out.
With the current PTS changes, Shuffle is basically pointless if you're already running 2H + DW. Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak does the same thing but better, while being far cheaper.Edited by jcm2606 on September 19, 2018 4:32AM0
