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Excuse me: ZoS.. Can we talk about these patch notes please
OnlyOnThursday
✭✭✭✭
Hi. I'm going to do my best to be respectful and polite in this post, and ask that anyone that comments do the same, in the hopes that maybe.. Somebody at Zenimax might actually give it the time of day.
Let's talk about a few things in this update:
Major/Minor Evasion:
According to these notes, this no longer allows you to evade. I know that sounds strange, because hey... it's called evasion.
Here is the definition of the word "evasion"
an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something:
evasion of one's duty.
the avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge:
The old political boss was notorious for his practice of evasion.
a means of evading; subterfuge; an excuse or trick to avoid or get around something:
Her polite agreement was an evasion concealing what she really felt."
What you have done is create a nonsensical method for AOE damage mitigation. But.. what good does that do a nightblade in a trial getting blasted by single target damage?
The answer: NONE AT ALL.
I really don't think I need to say much more about this. Because it's straight bananas. You're taking away the primary method that stamblades have to stay alive in a lot of situations, PVP and PVE alike. You're also inadvertantly nerfing, or requiring a roll dodge to proc a TON of good gear sets. I wonder why? Some of these sets are brand new. Why even create them if you're going to break them right away.
Damage Shields
This update really bothers me. This is blatantly a nerf to the way shields function to satisfy PVP complaints, and like so many previous modifications made to magic classes, this has serious implications for PVE. In the notes the developer comments read:
" Adding a cast time and increasing the duration makes this an ability to use proactively before damage happens, or at opportune times during combat."
Here's my question to the developers:
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
If you're fighting a flame shaper and you want to.. you know.. not die(Since we know evasion won't be helping you anymore). That one second without shields will mean instant death.
If a tank dies and a boss comes running at you. Should you pause, and just ask the boss nicely to please not attack you because ZoS Development asked us to use our shields Proactively?
I had intentions of going through all of my issues with these notes, but honestly these two are so mind boggling that I can't continue.
HERE'S A CRAZY IDEA
Are you ready?
INSTEAD OF NERFING CRITICAL PVE SKILLS TO SATISFY PVP COMPLAINTS
ready?
MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONES
Edited by OnlyOnThursday on September 18, 2018 12:55PM Let's talk about a few things in this update:
Major/Minor Evasion:
According to these notes, this no longer allows you to evade. I know that sounds strange, because hey... it's called evasion.
Here is the definition of the word "evasion"
an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something:
evasion of one's duty.
the avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge:
The old political boss was notorious for his practice of evasion.
a means of evading; subterfuge; an excuse or trick to avoid or get around something:
Her polite agreement was an evasion concealing what she really felt."
What you have done is create a nonsensical method for AOE damage mitigation. But.. what good does that do a nightblade in a trial getting blasted by single target damage?
The answer: NONE AT ALL.
I really don't think I need to say much more about this. Because it's straight bananas. You're taking away the primary method that stamblades have to stay alive in a lot of situations, PVP and PVE alike. You're also inadvertantly nerfing, or requiring a roll dodge to proc a TON of good gear sets. I wonder why? Some of these sets are brand new. Why even create them if you're going to break them right away.
Damage Shields
This update really bothers me. This is blatantly a nerf to the way shields function to satisfy PVP complaints, and like so many previous modifications made to magic classes, this has serious implications for PVE. In the notes the developer comments read:
" Adding a cast time and increasing the duration makes this an ability to use proactively before damage happens, or at opportune times during combat."
Here's my question to the developers:
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
If you're fighting a flame shaper and you want to.. you know.. not die(Since we know evasion won't be helping you anymore). That one second without shields will mean instant death.
If a tank dies and a boss comes running at you. Should you pause, and just ask the boss nicely to please not attack you because ZoS Development asked us to use our shields Proactively?
I had intentions of going through all of my issues with these notes, but honestly these two are so mind boggling that I can't continue.
HERE'S A CRAZY IDEA
Are you ready?
INSTEAD OF NERFING CRITICAL PVE SKILLS TO SATISFY PVP COMPLAINTS
ready?
MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONES
36
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jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »HERE'S A CRAZY IDEA
Are you ready?
INSTEAD OF NERFING CRITICAL PVE SKILLS TO SATISFY PVP COMPLAINTS
ready?
MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONES
Or, in the case of shields, stop at introducing counterplay by making shields crittable. Zenimax can't go one minute without nerfing something, even though they already achieved what they wanted, can they?10 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭As it is, my magic toons can barely pull their weight in endgame content compared to their stam counterparts. What makes the 10k DPS reduction worthwhile, is the damage reduction. It's the ability to drop a shield and survive a blast, to walk through vSO to res a dead healer and actually SURVIVE.
It's the ability to make it through the poison phase of vMA, at what point in Maelstrom Arena do you ever just have a second to chill and wait for something.
Magic users are in light armor, they take a lot more damage, that one second is more than enough to kill all but the hardiest.
7 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »As it is, my magic toons can barely pull their weight in endgame content compared to their stam counterparts. What makes the 10k DPS reduction worthwhile, is the damage reduction. It's the ability to drop a shield and survive a blast, to walk through vSO to res a dead healer and actually SURVIVE.
It's the ability to make it through the poison phase of vMA, at what point in Maelstrom Arena do you ever just have a second to chill and wait for something.
Magic users are in light armor, they take a lot more damage, that one second is more than enough to kill all but the hardiest.
All your doing is highlighting how OP shields are, letting you ignore mechanics like vMA poison phase. That poison should be Oblivion damage so you can't hide behind you shield.5 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭I never said it lets you ignore the mechanics, it most certainly doesn't. I suppose if you had infinite magic, and infinite self heals you could squeak by. But it does what it's designed to do. Let you survive for a couple of seconds longer so you can get cleansed.4
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Uhhhh the major evasion change is a buff for PvE....I have a feeling you aren't speaking endgame level, in which case you shouldn't complain about PvP effecting PvE.5 -
damage shields as they are i will quit cause mag will be worthless aka no more completing vcr pr vas2 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭Uhhhh the major evasion change is a buff for PvE....I have a feeling you aren't speaking endgame level, in which case you shouldn't complain about PvP effecting PvE.
I wouldn't call it that when you consider all of the dodge proc sets that now can only be used if you're flipping around like an acrobat. That sort of movement is perfectly fine in PVP, but in PVE it's a good way to get kicked out of a trial.
Also consider how hard you can get hit when you're a stam toon, with no shields, by single target damage. I've personally survived innumerable times by the skin of my teeth, thanks to my innate dodge chance courtesy of evasion. If I wanted to achieve damage mitigation, I have available to me a number of ways to do so already. But we had no other(unless I'm mistaken?) way to reduce the likelihood of actually getting hit by something(see: The definition of EVASION)1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its a buff as long as you weren't relying on damage shields and evasion for survivability.
And this is ZOS' plan to make healers more necessary?1 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Its a buff as long as you weren't relying on damage shields and evasion for survivability.
And this is ZOS' plan to make healers more necessary?
If you aren't relying on damage shields and evasion for survivability then why do they exist?1 -
GiggleGoat✭✭✭✭The thing is, the way I always saw it, the shields were to help compensate mag players for not having the stam to dodge, roll, block and sprint as much as stam toons.
Using the vMA poison stage as an example- if you get nailed by a plant and are at the opposite side of where the cleansing pool spawns, there's a good chance you may not make it without full stam and will need the second or so shields may buy you.
I play both stam and mag and realise they're trying to adjust it to be more proactive than reactive, similar to vigor in some cases, but mag chars seem way squishier to me.
P.s. I'm a pvpotato, so my feedback comes from a pve perspective
Edit: spellingEdited by GiggleGoat on September 17, 2018 6:36PM5 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »Uhhhh the major evasion change is a buff for PvE....I have a feeling you aren't speaking endgame level, in which case you shouldn't complain about PvP effecting PvE.
I wouldn't call it that when you consider all of the dodge proc sets that now can only be used if you're flipping around like an acrobat. That sort of movement is perfectly fine in PVP, but in PVE it's a good way to get kicked out of a trial.
Also consider how hard you can get hit when you're a stam toon, with no shields, by single target damage. I've personally survived innumerable times by the skin of my teeth, thanks to my innate dodge chance courtesy of evasion. If I wanted to achieve damage mitigation, I have available to me a number of ways to do so already. But we had no other(unless I'm mistaken?) way to reduce the likelihood of actually getting hit by something(see: The definition of EVASION)
DDs don't face any single target dodgeable damage in trials, it's all AoEs that aren't dodgeable. About the only thing that can be/needs to be dodged are heavy attacks, and dodge roll is perfect for that; plus it's more a dungeon thing, like vFL HM bone colossus. And if you were relying on 15% dodge chance for that then I bet your group was picking you up off the ground a lot.
25% AoE damage reduction is a huge benefit in PvE. The problem with how it's implemented is that DW yet again wins with blade cloak, while bow or 2h users would have to use the garbage shuffle skill and drain their stam pool. Maybe we can hope healers will start running Gossamer...
But yeah you're right all those sets that rely on dodge, like tava's, are trash now.Edited by Kanar on September 17, 2018 6:40PM1 -
Bfish22090✭✭✭✭✭the shield change was too hard. make either the cast time or the crittable aspect of it go live.
NOT BOTH2 -
craigr02✭✭✭It was looking like it might be a decent update until i seen the shield patch not, then i was like yup zos is cray.
This is why people leave this game Zos. Remember after one tam when you changed things, so many people left, some came back but many haven't.
I predict if this goes to live how it is, there will be another exodus of players. I already canceled my eso+ a few months ago, i don't for see me reactivating it any time soon. Looks like I'll just continue playing events and collecting dailies for the forseable feature.0 -
yahuhu✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
2m40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHsZUcOcL_w#t=02m54s
I'm just leave it here...
P.S. Then what do you are outraged by these changes, tells me only that you understand - without old mechanics you are useless.Edited by yahuhu on September 17, 2018 7:05PM0 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭Here, I've got a more topical video
I give you: THE MAG SORC MURKMIRE BUILD --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj2IUC7KdrU#action=share
Edited by OnlyOnThursday on September 17, 2018 7:12PM3 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The 1s cast time is gonna be a real fun time in Trials. Trying to shield through stuff like Starfall is gonna be ridiculous.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa4 -
Tarrocan✭✭✭✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
2m40shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHsZUcOcL_w#t=02m54s
I'm just leave it here...
P.S. Then what do you are outraged by these changes, tells me only that you understand - without old mechanics you are useless.
lol this recording must be over 3 years old, but uploaded in 2018
AD MagDK 'General Degree <-Main
AD MagDK 'Kiana
AD MagDK Kiana The Fire Mage
AD MagDK General Degree
AD MagDK 'Tarrocan
AD StamDK Tarrocan
AD MagNB GrimKiller
AD MagCro Som Ting Wong
AD StamCro 'Som Ting Wong
AD MagPlar Della Grant
AD StamPlar R I M M A
AD MagSorc Nautilus
AD StamSorc R O M M I
AD StamNB Iba
AD MagDen Desi Roots
AD StamDen Diablo0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
2m40shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHsZUcOcL_w#t=02m54s
I'm just leave it here...
P.S. Then what do you are outraged by these changes, tells me only that you understand - without old mechanics you are useless.
You should report the players in those clips. They are obviously cheating since CFrag does not stun anymore! They must be using a hack!
Patch notes are a joke.
Just out of curiostiy, is weed legal in Maryland?
If 1 sec was not a significant amount of time in PvP then we would not have to stun people. Strangly enough, people stun other people despite them knowing it will only last about 1 sec since they will break free!0 -
ruikkarikun✭✭✭✭✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONESOnlyOnThursday wrote: »MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONESOnlyOnThursday wrote: »MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONESOnlyOnThursday wrote: »MAKE THE SKILLS FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY IN PVP ZONES
THIS.4 -
yahuhu✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »
Exactly when is an opportune time to stop what you're doing and refresh your shields while you're running around downstairs in VCR? Because I'll tell you, 1 second is enough to kill you.
2m40shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHsZUcOcL_w#t=02m54s
I'm just leave it here...
P.S. Then what do you are outraged by these changes, tells me only that you understand - without old mechanics you are useless.
lol this recording must be over 3 years old, but uploaded in 2018
2015-2018. In this over the years that something has changed? True?
"Freesh meat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=348&v=Qj2IUC7KdrU
Thx OnlyOnThursday
Edited by yahuhu on September 18, 2018 6:52AM1 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »As it is, my magic toons can barely pull their weight in endgame content compared to their stam counterparts. What makes the 10k DPS reduction worthwhile, is the damage reduction. It's the ability to drop a shield and survive a blast, to walk through vSO to res a dead healer and actually SURVIVE.
It's the ability to make it through the poison phase of vMA, at what point in Maelstrom Arena do you ever just have a second to chill and wait for something.
Magic users are in light armor, they take a lot more damage, that one second is more than enough to kill all but the hardiest.
All your doing is highlighting how OP shields are, letting you ignore mechanics like vMA poison phase. That poison should be Oblivion damage so you can't hide behind you shield.
And we don't have the spell and physical resist medium armor wearers have either, nor the speed nor the stam to sprint nor the stam to block nor the stam to dodge roll..... you see where I'm going pal?0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The shields weren't changed for PVP. Just like the nerf to 6 seconds wasn't for PVP (it was done because of sorc scores in VMA.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431189/class-reps-meeting-notes-august-16/p10 -
Joker99✭✭✭OnlyOnThursday wrote: »Uhhhh the major evasion change is a buff for PvE....I have a feeling you aren't speaking endgame level, in which case you shouldn't complain about PvP effecting PvE.
I wouldn't call it that when you consider all of the dodge proc sets that now can only be used if you're flipping around like an acrobat. That sort of movement is perfectly fine in PVP, but in PVE it's a good way to get kicked out of a trial.
Also consider how hard you can get hit when you're a stam toon, with no shields, by single target damage. I've personally survived innumerable times by the skin of my teeth, thanks to my innate dodge chance courtesy of evasion. If I wanted to achieve damage mitigation, I have available to me a number of ways to do so already. But we had no other(unless I'm mistaken?) way to reduce the likelihood of actually getting hit by something(see: The definition of EVASION)
Are you on something dude? Besides the fact that basically no one uses Blade Cloak anymore, nothing has actually changed, they just made the damage reduction from it a named buff, so stop bitching. It’s only really optional to use even at Assembly General.PC-EU
DPS Slave:
StamNB, MagNB, MagPlar, MagDK, StamDK, StamWarden
Mostly just a scrub. Not even max CP.Actually max CP.0 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭Has anyone heard any feedback from ZoS at all on this, I see lots of threads but no replies
@ZOS_GinaBruno0 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭Are you on something dude? Besides the fact that basically no one uses Blade Cloak anymore, nothing has actually changed, they just made the damage reduction from it a named buff, so stop bitching. It’s only really optional to use even at Assembly General.
The point is they took away a skill, and gave it a damage mitigation function, that a) wasn't necessary because it was already available, and b) doesn't make sense if you.. you know.. own a dictionary0 -
OnlyOnThursday✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »
Don't forget you can be interrupted now as well, so if you've got an AOE blast wave hitting you... RIP0 -
Grollok76✭✭✭✭The shields weren't changed for PVP. Just like the nerf to 6 seconds wasn't for PVP (it was done because of sorc scores in VMA.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431189/class-reps-meeting-notes-august-16/p1
Forcing every mag-toon to back-bar a Restostaff to have access to a usable shield will be the final nail in the coffin for healers in 4 man content. Great and well thought out concept.
Edited by Grollok76 on September 19, 2018 12:43PM1
