Can we just rework and give stamblades the option to be tankier in face to face combat?

Nyladreas · September 2018

As the title suggests I'd like to see a complete rework of stamblades in the future. An update that would make them a whole lot more tankier and get rid of this stupid "ganking" problem that is causing so much anger and bad attitude in PvP.

Nightblades should only operate as gankers during an opening on an opponent and then escaping to safety, while during the rest of the encounter fighting like brawlers. And I mean that quite literally. No more 1 shots, no more combat reset a 100 times over. No more fear of engaging multiple skilled opponents as a NB. There shouldn't be constant resetting, spamming of cloak, punishing squishiness and insane opening burst as we have now. At least in my opinion.

Now before everyone here starts freaking out let me explain this.

Nightblades in my opinion should have a lot better baseline defensive abilities and mostly only rely on cloak as a utility or a situational defensive escape button. Emphasis on Situational. That means no more cloaking 5 times in a row. With that being said, the other morph of cloak should be changed from it's current state (the dark cloak morph) to grant more healing than it currently offers in PVP (PvE part is fine due no full healing potential). The duration on protection should be greatly increased and healing should scale off the highest resource and/or weapon damage/spell damage.

All this, again I'm repeating it for you folks, with increased defensives and increased damage during visible periods but decrased damage during invisible or surprise periods.

Cloak should not be the "I win" button, it shouldn't make the NB too strong, or frustrating to fight, it also shouldn't break as easily as it does now from AoEs. It should however make you extremely vulnerable should you be revealed.

I dream of the day when our assassins and rogues would be able to truly surprise their opponents from stealth, and then defeat them in fair combat with true cunning and agility, rather than being squishy opportunists who stay back at all times only preying on the weakest or unaware defenseless targets. Or pick people off one by one if allowed (honestly good luck with that at any time comms are involved.) I want them to join into the fight and bring some battlefield control.

I also dream of the day when I'll be able to build a shadow knight, who can take on tough opponents face to face without having to rely on the gimmicky mechanics and build up burst NBs have now.

Yes I know it's possible to "kind of" build for this approach now but you still can't withstand multiple skilled opponents who always know to go for nightblades first, or slot 100 different counters for the everyday player. Not to mention that to build this way you're always gimping yourself one way or another.

Also not to mention that this would have to be a change for magblades as well as the cloak rework would put a tight leash on their currently only defensive ability in light armor. They seem to be alright though. It almost seem like ZOS struggles figuring out how to balance between stam and magicka.

Some have suggested this before: Add an increased cost to cloak on repeated use. Make it 50% hell even make it 100%. And I completely agree with this, we should do this, but at the same time give it some other effects. Give it something that makes it worth using. Something to still be feared but never annoying again. And make it 100% unbreakable from AoEs. Make Magelight, Hunter, Flare useful.

I'm not sure if I make sense to you guys with this topic. The idea I have is very complex and I hope it will be taken as an open suggestion rather than a whine topic of any sort.

TL,DR; I'd like to see cloak changed as a utility rather than the spammable "oh crap" button it is now, have stealth, incap, relentelss damage lowered and visible sustained damage increased to reasonable valuess to make up for inability to spam cloak, added defensive capabilities to support this change, rework/fix invisibility counters to counter this new playstyle. This would be a complex change of the entire class and allow them to stay in combat more, while offering a more reliable escape option in rough situations that wouldn't be as threatening or frustrating to deal with.

Also, I know nightblades are fine right now, but I feel like they could do so much more and have a much better feel to them.

EDIT: Apologizing for grammar mistakes, typing this out on a phone, being totally bored.

Katahdin · September 2018

So you want a nightblade to play like a second rate dragonknight or a warden

Why even bother playing a night blade then?

Nyladreas · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

So you want a nightblade to play like a second rate dragonknight or a warden

Why even bother playing a night blade then?

Because i like the class fantasy. I like the whole idea, i just don't really like the way it's implemented. Maybe I'm the only one, who knows. Being an assassin is cool, but it goes stale very quickly, when you can only excel in combat for the first couple of seconds and then either die or run. Successfully killing your target or not.

ezio45 · September 2018

no, why is this forum so damn insistent on ripping out the uniqueness of classes

cloak is a GOOD thing it, its what makes the class fun

ezio45 · September 2018

i dont even like nb's there my 4th pick of a class but damn

Jhalin · September 2018

How about being productive and crying for other classes to get the buffs they desperately need instead of crying to have another one gutted into homogeny?

ArchMikem · September 2018

STAMblades can't spam cloak. If i time it right i can cloak 3 times before I'm out of magic.

Also I'm wondering if you don't invest in crit resist. I don't and whenever I'm ganked it nearly one shots me. I'm a glass cannon but when i gank a PvP main who most certainly has a couple thousand resist, incap tickles.

The_Camper · September 2018

Well i agree with some of your points and some of it, i don't.

Yes. imo, Cloak needs the streak treatment. It is one of those utility skills that just shouldn't be a button mash spammable get out of jail free card.

What i don't agree with you is that nightblades not being able to brawl in melee combat and be tanky. this is false on so many levels. Main reason that we have the MYTH that nightblades are squishy is because 90% of the nightblades population wear 2 damage sets+ 1 monster damage proc set, all in medium and complain that they are squishy. Of course you will be. any other class that would wear full glasscannon medium armor will be rekt in 2 seconds in any outnumbered fight.

You want to be a brawler? Wear heavy armor, get atleast 1 frigging defensive or a set that helps you with sustain and you can be a good melee brawler as much as any other class. nightblades have a utility toolkit that helps tremendously in outnumbered fights. I main a Melee brawler stamblade and i survive outnumbered fights on it easier than any other characters/classes i play. Cloak is probably the least used tool in my bar during these fights.

Its not that class is incapable of playing brawler with good sustain and survival. It's just that most of the nightblades are pigeonholed into being full glass cannon bowtards who got no sense of survival once they are out of cloak, mainly because they follow that youtubers' 1 hit gank build because it has 500k views and easy to play while using 1% of your brain cells.

max_only · September 2018

Well as a former NB tank main I agree with being more defensive, however that should be kept as a rare build for the truly determined, not the NB primary or secondary function.

smokey13a · September 2018

I main stamblade's and cloak is NOT an "I win" button at all, I mean cloak breaks all the time and I see stamblades all the time 1v1'ing or sometimes even 1vX'ing that don't even have cloak slotted so changing cloak for those types of build would make no difference (don't take that the wrong way because they die a lot too). also unlike all other classes nightblades don't have a specific skill that gives them their major resistance buffs.

the only stamblade specific skill that needs to be nerfed into oblivion is surprise attack.

most stamblades are only decent in 1v1 situations but I regularly see builds of all other classes 1vX'ing all the time, I mean literally just standing there tanking like 5+ people while killing them at the same time so it wouldn't really be fair to nerf the crap out of one of the few defensive moves nightblades have.

plus cloak is quite easily nullified form skills(AOE's ect), pots and poisons so i think it's fine how it is, just my opinion.

Sergykid · September 2018

then i want my templar to be able to fight savagely rather than being a support class by base

ezio45 · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

How about being productive and crying for other classes to get the buffs they desperately need instead of crying to have another one gutted into homogeny?

YYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS

Sevn · September 2018

Why even play a NB then? Any class can open an attack from stealth.

Slack · September 2018

Well if you have a stamblade and want to be more of a brawler, just use something like 7th legion, Shacklebreaker heavy and the healing morph of cloak

DuskMarine · September 2018

roll heavy crafted armor it hits like a tank while being able to be hit by a nuke.

TequilaFire · September 2018

Make yourself some fortified brass jewelry and weapons combine with damage and monster set of your choice.
Problem solved your tanky. But since this was a nerf NB in disguise thread you probably already knew that.

Biro123 · September 2018

Just becaue most choose to build a ganker doesn't mean they can't be tanky. They can be VERY tanky. Don't need more tools for it

D0PAMINE · September 2018

Gankers arnt even a problem. I don't care if someone cloaks away and runs, not every fight is going to result in a death, and people flee keeps that they are about loose anyway.

Wollust · September 2018

I main a stam NB which is quite the brawler and not squishy at all. And that is in medium. Sure, NBs don‘t have the innate tankiness some other classes have, but you can certainly build around that. If you want to have more survivability and less gank one shot glass cheese, you have to adjust your build. Not the class itself.