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Shield Nerfs Are For Real This Time
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Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭So much premature hysteria...
It clearly says "provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities."
Keyword: counterplay.
Counterplay occurs in PvP, not PvE. This suggests that whatever they're doing is a buff of some sort on the attacker side, not a nerf to shields themselves. They may add an ability that strips shields off a target. Or maybe they'll make weapon/spell penetration or crit (which PvE mobs don't have) increase damage against shields.
We don't know. So chill.Edited by Gnortranermara on September 13, 2018 10:11PM8 -
mojomood✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Any nerf to shields will instantly make magicka classes useless in endgame content. Then ZOS will take a year, at least, to rectify their mistake. Shields are the only way for magicka classes to avoid damage since they don't have enough stamina to actively block/dodge, nor do they have evasion.
Rather than nerfing magicka survivability, they should be buffing stamina survivability, or buffing their DPS to compensate for their lower survivability.
Really? Cause right now most competitive trial groups have a ton of magblades and almost no stam dps and healers are more sustainers/debuffs with some heals thrown in. The nerf to shields needs to reduce the magicka return on harness and an increase in the cost on all but the resto ward. Effective, but they should be used in anticipation of incoming damage and not always up.
I do agree that medium needs more survivability across the board and better passives in general. Would love to see the crit CP go to the armor passives.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Im really trying hard rn not to just rage at this.......
Shields do not need counter play... there are enough counter plays for shields with cc, shield breaker, sloads, shattering blows, res drain poisons
Light armor cant work without shields.... would you expect stam to survive if you dropped there resist to 5k and what is the point of playing mag if you dont have shields, stam already pulls higher dps
Res drain, CC and sloads (all oblivion bar SB) are everyone counters.
Shattering blows are a limited counter to bastion, not even direct.
Shield breaker is BS, we all know, so remove it and instead swap to soft counters, which unlike block/dodge, has none. "Just pressure."
They need to amp up sorcs other defensive mechanics like AoD mines and movement from streak.
shield breaker kills sorcs in 3 light attacks, ill give you res drain but i dont see a single other type that game play other that light armor that cc's leave completely defenseless with 9k spell resist and 5k phys resist with no stam to break it. and percentage wise sloads effects light users significantly more than there heavy and medium counter parts as LIGHT ARMOR HAS MASSIVELY LESS HEALTH
even if they amp'd up sorcs other defenses its not compareable to 20k resist 25k health thats always active and can be used while attacking, not no mention rolldodge were they arnt even hit
Who runs around in PvP with 6k health? You get 5k health for just being in PvP.
With purple gear non buff I normally have 9-10k physical resistance without cup specced for it.
i get hit in pvp with shield breaker for 5kIm really trying hard rn not to just rage at this.......
Shields do not need counter play... there are enough counter plays for shields with cc, shield breaker, sloads, shattering blows, res drain poisons
Light armor cant work without shields.... would you expect stam to survive if you dropped there resist to 5k and what is the point of playing mag if you dont have shields, stam already pulls higher dps
Res drain, CC and sloads (all oblivion bar SB) are everyone counters.
Shattering blows are a limited counter to bastion, not even direct.
Shield breaker is BS, we all know, so remove it and instead swap to soft counters, which unlike block/dodge, has none. "Just pressure."
They need to amp up sorcs other defensive mechanics like AoD mines and movement from streak.
shield breaker kills sorcs in 3 light attacks, ill give you res drain but i dont see a single other type that game play other that light armor that cc's leave completely defenseless with 9k spell resist and 5k phys resist with no stam to break it. and percentage wise sloads effects light users significantly more than there heavy and medium counter parts as LIGHT ARMOR HAS MASSIVELY LESS HEALTH
Medium build generally has the same health as a light build. The rest is correct...I think. It was kinda hard to read
no i main a light armor mag sorc, i have 15k health, my stam guildmates at least 20 if not 25k health
That's a build issue, not specifically an issue with armor.
Do you not run any health or prismatic enchants in PvP?
nope
Then low health is partly your fault. PvP is hybrid land now since all 3 stats are of paramount importance, which means you need prismatics
It does not matter how big is your HP pool - even with a 18k+ HP you are in trouble.
For example if for any reason you left with 4k HP only - your first action as a sorc is to apply and stack shields. It is usually Hardened Ward + Healing Ward. This is already a risky business as it is a matter of milliseconds you survive or die.
Now with that shield breaking set this defense mechanism does not work. And that could be alright if there were an alternative, but there is no good alternative.
The closest alternative is to apply a stack of Hardened Ward + Healing Ward and then heal with a pet. But that's 2 global cool-downs (providing you animation cancel). That global cool-down allows exactly 2 shield breaker procs and the game-s over for the sorc unfairly.
While stamina users have plenty of options including and not limited to - roll-dodging - burst healing with rally - blocking
I understand how Shield Breaker works. The person I quoted, however, says that Stamina builds have more HP than Magicka buildsValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jediodyn_ESO wrote: »Shields are broken and imbalanced mechanically. Stacking, no Crit, same survival pool as damage modifier and most of the healing tree with crazy efficiency: They needed a fix.
Don’t QQ till you at least see the new system.
Don't QQ until you understand how shields work lol...
Heals scale off of Magicka and then some, and can also crit and are affected by spell damage. Stamina heals scal off of Stamina, and can also crit and are affected by weapon damage. This is a nonsense argument and I will never understand why people use it.
The only CP that directly effect shields is Bastion, which has another CP tree in the Mage to counteract it.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake3 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Any nerf to shields will instantly make magicka classes useless in endgame content. Then ZOS will take a year, at least, to rectify their mistake. Shields are the only way for magicka classes to avoid damage since they don't have enough stamina to actively block/dodge, nor do they have evasion.
Rather than nerfing magicka survivability, they should be buffing stamina survivability, or buffing their DPS to compensate for their lower survivability.
Really? Cause right now most competitive trial groups have a ton of magblades and almost no stam dps and healers are more sustainers/debuffs with some heals thrown in. The nerf to shields needs to reduce the magicka return on harness and an increase in the cost on all but the resto ward. Effective, but they should be used in anticipation of incoming damage and not always up.
I do agree that medium needs more survivability across the board and better passives in general. Would love to see the crit CP go to the armor passives.
-What content are we talking about? Stamblade > Magblade for content that is Stam friendly, such as in MoL
-Healers are like that in most games. Useless complaint.
-Yeah no to the sustain nerfs. Next.
-You know, they used to be used for that before they got nerfed down to 6 seconds a piece. Now they're a little less reactive than Vigor. I'd be okay with them being used for pre-emptive mitigation.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »My mag sorc can just barely complete VMA right now. If they nerf shields, I won't be able to complete VMA anymore. That's some value added there, lemme tell ya! *sarcasm*
Stop nerfing PvE for PvP. Stop making the same mistakes every other MMO in the past has, and separate PvE from PvP. It's hard, and it'll take along time, but literally half of the complaints about your game will go away. Just do it already.
Shields aren't even OP in PvP...8 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »All I know is that these kinds of speculations prior to actual details are nonsense. Why can't people wait to actually see the changes?
because we dont trust zos2 -
Mister_DMC✭✭✭✭✭Gonna agree that all PvP should be no cp and balanced that way. Been playing a bit of CP PvP and every decent player I fight turns into a 5+ min fight. CP covers mistakes too easily and I get bored from long winded fights.3
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mojomood✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »Really sounds like they should just balance PvE and PvP separately.
They have. It's called Battle Spirit. And Shields are still OP in PvP when stacked with damage debuffs, protection buffs, and CP.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »Nerfing shields but buffing LA passives will buff Magblade even more over sorc. At this point is ZOS trolling Magsorc mains. If this happens please @ZOS_GinaBruno give us a sale on race change tokens and adventure pack as a buff?
if this happens nothing they can to will make it right by me, sorc is my favorite class. if they nerf the one last thing that gives my class some uniqueness and reason to be played, im gone2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jediodyn_ESO wrote: »Shields are broken and imbalanced mechanically. Stacking, no Crit, same survival pool as damage modifier and most of the healing tree with crazy efficiency: They needed a fix.
Don’t QQ till you at least see the new system.
shields are fine as is, light armor needs a buff. nerfing shields and buffing light armor is ass backwards1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »So much premature hysteria...
It clearly says "provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities."
Keyword: counterplay.
Counterplay occurs in PvP, not PvE. This suggests that whatever they're doing is a buff of some sort on the attacker side, not a nerf to shields themselves. They may add an ability that strips shields off a target. Or maybe they'll make weapon/spell penetration or crit (which PvE mobs don't have) increase damage against shields.
We don't know. So chill.
the fact that we dont know is one of the problems, zos doesnt have a good track record with these types of changes1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭and as a pvp'er this removes any option for light armor and im not down to be a sorc tank0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »So much premature hysteria...
It clearly says "provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities."
Keyword: counterplay.
Counterplay occurs in PvP, not PvE. This suggests that whatever they're doing is a buff of some sort on the attacker side, not a nerf to shields themselves. They may add an ability that strips shields off a target. Or maybe they'll make weapon/spell penetration or crit (which PvE mobs don't have) increase damage against shields.
We don't know. So chill.
the fact that we dont know is one of the problems, zos doesnt have a good track record with these types of changes
We will know on monday, the 17th of September.
The start of the PTS cycle.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »So much premature hysteria...
It clearly says "provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities."
Keyword: counterplay.
Counterplay occurs in PvP, not PvE. This suggests that whatever they're doing is a buff of some sort on the attacker side, not a nerf to shields themselves. They may add an ability that strips shields off a target. Or maybe they'll make weapon/spell penetration or crit (which PvE mobs don't have) increase damage against shields.
We don't know. So chill.
the fact that we dont know is one of the problems, zos doesnt have a good track record with these types of changes
We will know on monday, the 17th of September.
The start of the PTS cycle.
well im really hoping this isnt as bad as it sounds but i think i know better by now than to expect this to work out well1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"Finally, we have made a series of broad changes to ESO’s combat that are designed to help balance sustain across all Classes, provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities, and improve the effectiveness of Light and Medium Armor Passives."
"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities"
"counterplay...Damage Shield"
GG, ZOS. Time to finally reroll Stam Sorc after 4.5 years, seeing as they somehow believe shields can't be countered already.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54803
Why stam sorc?
You won't connect your Dizzying Swing with anything that knows how to PVP.
I'd say roll a stam sorc only if ZOS adds a surprise attack equivalent to sorc class.
Then...don't use Dizzy?
A lot of Stam Sorcs use DoT builds and spam Steel Tornado or...more rarely, Rapid Strikes.
Rapid Strikes is useful in PvP? I never knew that! (And I'm not enough of a PvPer to work it out on my own.) I assumed that channels like Sweeps, Bloodthirst or whatever were too easy to get out of to be good.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Finally, we have made a series of broad changes to ESO’s combat that are designed to help balance sustain across all Classes, provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities, and improve the effectiveness of Light and Medium Armor Passives."
"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities"
"counterplay...Damage Shield"
GG, ZOS. Time to finally reroll Stam Sorc after 4.5 years, seeing as they somehow believe shields can't be countered already.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54803
New patch notes:
We've decided to make shield breaker a baseline ability in pvp! The shieldbreaker set now makes light attacks do *double* oblivion damage instead of providing this ability.3 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The sky is falling, the sky is falling! We can’t actually see the sky right now.... but.... it’s falling! Because I said so!1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »"Finally, we have made a series of broad changes to ESO’s combat that are designed to help balance sustain across all Classes, provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities, and improve the effectiveness of Light and Medium Armor Passives."
"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities"
"counterplay...Damage Shield"
GG, ZOS. Time to finally reroll Stam Sorc after 4.5 years, seeing as they somehow believe shields can't be countered already.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54803
Why stam sorc?
You won't connect your Dizzying Swing with anything that knows how to PVP.
I'd say roll a stam sorc only if ZOS adds a surprise attack equivalent to sorc class.
Then...don't use Dizzy?
A lot of Stam Sorcs use DoT builds and spam Steel Tornado or...more rarely, Rapid Strikes.
Rapid Strikes is useful in PvP? I never knew that! (And I'm not enough of a PvPer to work it out on my own.) I assumed that channels like Sweeps, Bloodthirst or whatever were too easy to get out of to be good.
It's like a baby version of biting jabs, and biting jabs is pretty good in it's own rightValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The sky is falling, the sky is falling! We can’t actually see the sky right now.... but.... it’s falling! Because I said so!
Aw you poor naive person...you still have faith in ZOSValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake10 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭*coughs servers, buff em already*
smh, the most unbalanced thing in the game~°·Edited by Girl_Number8 on September 14, 2018 12:09AM1 -
Gorilla✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Any nerf to shields will instantly make magicka classes useless in endgame content. Then ZOS will take a year, at least, to rectify their mistake. Shields are the only way for magicka classes to avoid damage since they don't have enough stamina to actively block/dodge, nor do they have evasion.
Rather than nerfing magicka survivability, they should be buffing stamina survivability, or buffing their DPS to compensate for their lower survivability.
Really? Cause right now most competitive trial groups have a ton of magblades and almost no stam dps and healers are more sustainers/debuffs with some heals thrown in. The nerf to shields needs to reduce the magicka return on harness and an increase in the cost on all but the resto ward. Effective, but they should be used in anticipation of incoming damage and not always up.
I do agree that medium needs more survivability across the board and better passives in general. Would love to see the crit CP go to the armor passives.
Yeah. Alot of hyperbole in this thread so t hanks for sane view. Also think stacking needs to be eliminated or reduced if they can.
As for instantly and useless, lol, I play a mage builds in PVP without any shields. Heavy armor, tactics and heals. Works fine. You can't bunny hop in front of people and macro-burst or ani-cancel your bursts but it's a fun, viable way to play.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Aw, you poor presumptuous person... believing that not giving a crap about the meta or min maxing equates to beign naive.4 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Any nerf to shields will instantly make magicka classes useless in endgame content. Then ZOS will take a year, at least, to rectify their mistake. Shields are the only way for magicka classes to avoid damage since they don't have enough stamina to actively block/dodge, nor do they have evasion.
Rather than nerfing magicka survivability, they should be buffing stamina survivability, or buffing their DPS to compensate for their lower survivability.
Really? Cause right now most competitive trial groups have a ton of magblades and almost no stam dps and healers are more sustainers/debuffs with some heals thrown in. The nerf to shields needs to reduce the magicka return on harness and an increase in the cost on all but the resto ward. Effective, but they should be used in anticipation of incoming damage and not always up.
I do agree that medium needs more survivability across the board and better passives in general. Would love to see the crit CP go to the armor passives.
Yeah, except in vCR +3 the anticipated damage is almost literally continuous. All it takes is a malicious spike+flare and you're at serious risk of dead without a shield.
Bottom group? Pretty much continuous damage from the orbs.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Aw, you poor presumptuous person... believing that not giving a crap about the meta or min maxing equates to beign naive.
Yes because not wanting your class to be turned into a pile of steaming crap is giving a crap about the meta and min maxing lolValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake6 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭"Finally, we have made a series of broad changes to ESO’s combat that are designed to help balance sustain across all Classes, provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities, and improve the effectiveness of Light and Medium Armor Passives."
"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities"
"counterplay...Damage Shield"
GG, ZOS. Time to finally reroll Stam Sorc after 4.5 years, seeing as they somehow believe shields can't be countered already.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54803
is this a joke??? zos has already butchered magic sorc and they continue to persecute the class, yall are really not wanting me to play this game anymore, honestly you continue to ruin the game in the name of balance by having no realization of the skill gap it takes to play this game. ive sat by and watched stam classes get favored ever since proc sets and poisons while they continue to persecute sheilds and mainly the magic sorc class rather than any other class in game.7 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭so you're going to nurf a class when its already in the worst position its ever been in this game, makes total sense!!! zos is a bunch of social justice warriors12
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ruikkarikun✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
Just interesting. What reaction do you expect?
What do you expect from players, after you nerf and makes their ingame life worse?
If you expect they will quit, stop buy crowns, stuff, etc then go on.
Because I played in game like this, and all of them can do only nerf, it's an easier desicion.
1) When stamina warden/dk can do 1vX in PVP is ok for you.
2) When only mage NBs are requaried for end game vet trials (without shield - minor force) you speak about nerfing shields for rest mana classes.
3) When Mana Sorc don't have any CC, stamina class just keep pressure all the time on him it's also ok .
4) When your dungeon mechanics are one shot hits/aoe, when you get hit by huge (30, 50, 100, etc) dmg (so problem in shields yes?)
Just watch FENGRUSH stream where he kills all 1 v ALL by ez on stam warden. So damage shields is a problem yes?
If you want to say he kills noobs... Well that's it. The key. Because most of players are not elitists (I don't say all are noobs) and changes which you do will hit them more and more hard.
I asked alot people from guilds etc, the big part never ever read official forum. So you making changes because some part (how many % from all players) QQ about something?
If you nerf somesthing, always give an alternative, otherwise you will get hate. It's simple.
Also good luck making new arena weapons with 2 bonuses, so maelstorm, DSA, AS weapons will be TRASH.
GG Good way.3 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Took them long enough."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4332
This discussion has been closed.