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A way to make the PVE portion of Cyrodiil more bearable without impacting PVP too much
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Jinchuu✭✭✭✭
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).Unless you are willing to be a mindless sycophant and/or coddle others due to their insecurities prepare to be harrased by the Orwellian enforcers on these forums. You should also try to refrain from using any words more complex than those used by a small child due to the fact that said enforcers have made it clear that their vocabulary pool is aenemic.6 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I bet these same players who want a PvE Cyrodiil are the same players that are against Normal Malestrom dropping imperfect weapons.
The argument was something like, "To get the reward, you have to do the content."
Now, I'm not saying the Malestrom idea is any good. I've beaten Malestrom more than I ever needed to.
What I'm saying is that any PvE player complaining about PvP in a PvP zone should take thier own advice. If you want the reward, you have to do the content.
Cyrodiil's also a PvE zone.
Is that why you're here complaining about getting killed by players?
I mean, you can keep telling yourself that while you're getting killed, I guess. Good luck with all that..
That's exactly why I'm complaining.
Why should I have to PvP in a zone also designed for PvE, while the opposite is not forced on PvP players?
Huh?
Yeah, PVEers have to go into PVP zones if they want ALL the skyshards, quests, delve bosses, cosmetics, and the Alliance War skills.
PVPers have to do PVE if they want to make it into PVP at all. You have to be at least 10 to enter PVP, remember? Oh, and also they have to PVE to get ALL the skyshards, quests, delve bosses, trial achievements, cosmetics, and useful skills and passive from Undaunted and the other guilds.
Both PVE and PVP are part of the base game. ZOS designed it so that if anyone wants ALL of the rewards, that person has to play ALL of the game. Overland questing, group dungeons, Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and Trials. All of it.
So, sorry, there's no unfair treatment going on, its just that the average PVEer views PVP with a lot more trepidation than the average PVPer views a group dungeon.
ZOS just wants PVEers and PVPers alike to play ALL of the game and designed ESO accordingly.5 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
I PvE in Vivec Lol. I do quests there. I even FARM there. I ALSO kill players and took the time to learn to do so. I entered Vivec at level 10.
There are plenty of places to ONLY PvE if you want to. ZOS wants you to play their WHOLE game so there are inventives for people to do both PvE and PvP.
You should really just l2p or l2pvp because once you do, PvEing in Cyrodiil won’t really be an issue.
Everyone dies. Everyone gets ganked. Everyone gets Zerged down. But once you l2p you’ll KILL those pesky nighblades. You’ll wreck Zergs. You won’t think to much of it.
ESO is a good game. Don’t shy away from a challenge. Step up and kill some people WHILE doing some quests.
This is the toxic behavior of PvP players. ''Everyone must do PvP!''
Gods above, you clearly have no clue how to handleVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.
The problem is that you'll have a hard time finding PvE players demanding PvP rewards, because that's not what we're complaining about.
We're complaining about not being able to do part of the PvE element because of PvP players deciding to gank PvE players.
Mixing PvP and PvE only encourages the former while completely disrupting the latter. Barely anyone does PvE in Cyrodiil because of PvP players that gank 24/7, thinking they are ''pro's'', and that the others just have to ''get gud''.
Mixing a zone does not encourage trying out different game modes. Changing rewards does. And that change already exists. If people want PvP rewards, they have to do PvP, that's already a thing that exists. And that's not what we're complaining about.
Exactly! If you want the rewards that ZOS deliberately put in a PVP zone like Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you might have to PVP!
Is that intended by ZOS? Absolutely.
You want the achievement for all of the skyshards in the base game? ZOS didnt stick 4 skyshard behind enemy gates by accident.
You want Master Angler which means fishing in all base game zones? ZOS didn't forget that Cyrodiil was a PVP zone where PVP happens.
You want the reward boxes from doing dailies in Cyrodiil? Again, ZOS didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PVP zone.
ZOS deliberately designed Imperial City to mash PVP into PVE activities. Its a ganker's paradise. That didnt happen by accident - its designed that way!
I'm 90% certain you and me have had this conversation before and we're not going to convince each other. Fair enough.
I'm pointing out that ZOS deliberately stuck PVE activities in a PVP zone, intending that PVE players would have to risk PVP in order to get the rewards for experiencing the whole game. I've pointed out the benefits ZOS gets for doing that.
This didnt happen by accident. ESO didn't get designed this way because PVPers want you to suffer. ZOS designed it this way, deliberately, and isn't going to change it because the benefits they get outweigh your suffering when you feel "forced" into PVP where ZOS knows full well that gankers lurk.
Except that PvE players are not out for the PvP rewards... Hence why they do PvE... And if those rewards were PvP rewards they wouldn't be obtainable by doing PvE, now would they? But yet they are, they're not PvP rewards.
And sure. You really think they ''planned'' it like that? Just like how they planned the mixed PvE/PvP zone in IC? Oh wait. IC was planned to have a toggle for PvP, but when the PvP fanboys couldn't stand not being allowed to gank PvE players, ZOS quickly removed it.
'
Childish, very childish.
So, you think that ZOS put rewards like questing achievements, fish, skyshards etc into a PVP zone like Cyrodiil by complete accident?
That ZOS somehow forgot that players might possibly be exposed to PVP while trying for those rewards? That ZOS didn't realize that "Huh, players can fight inside delves or while doing quests in the towns?" Or, "Wait, you have to capture at minimum 2 keeps in order to get to skyshard that can be defended by players." when they made some of those rewards?
Pull the other one, its got bells on it.
Putting generally PVE oriented awards into Cyrodiil was a deliberate choice by ZOS and its one that I've pointed out how it benefits the way ZOS has chosen to balance PVE and PVP together going forward. Not everyone like it, but overall it works out better for ZOS and the developers than the alternative of letting the PVP and PVE community develop into segregated communities with completely different interests and little understanding of each other. In the end, this has nothing to do with what you or I want, and everything to do with what works best for ZOS. "Forcing" PVE players into Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds if they want skyshard, quests, tel var, and style pages works really well for ZOS for all the aforementioned reasons I brought up in previous posts.
But since you've decided to resort to calling me childish, I think we've passed the point of having a sensible discussion. Have a great day.
As said before, Cyrodiil is also a PvE zone, so stop with the whole ''why would they put it in a PvP zone?'' argument, because it
falls flat.
ZOS didn't plan on gankers camping around sites, looking for PvE players. Hence why so many PvE sites are on the other sides of the map when compared to the PvP sites. Also, two skyshards, woohoo! You know that you'll hardly ever find any PvE player really caring for those? Sure, if the gates are open they'd take their chances, but those two Skyshards are put there for PvP players more than PvE.
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Sorry, we have an irreconcilable difference of opinions on what it means to have a PVP zone with PVE elements.
You think that the PVE elements ought to be sacrosanct for PVE.
I'm a realist. Its a PVP zone. If there isn't a PVP-free zone around those PVE elements, PVP is gonna happen.
ZOS isn't completely stupid. They knew PVP was going to happen throughout the whole zone.
Despise PVP? Okay. Dont go into PVP and you'll be fine, except you wont get those rewards that ZOS put into a zone that has PVP enabled everywhere.3 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »I bet these same players who want a PvE Cyrodiil are the same players that are against Normal Malestrom dropping imperfect weapons.
The argument was something like, "To get the reward, you have to do the content."
Now, I'm not saying the Malestrom idea is any good. I've beaten Malestrom more than I ever needed to.
What I'm saying is that any PvE player complaining about PvP in a PvP zone should take thier own advice. If you want the reward, you have to do the content.
Cyrodiil's also a PvE zone.
Is that why you're here complaining about getting killed by players?
I mean, you can keep telling yourself that while you're getting killed, I guess. Good luck with all that..
That's exactly why I'm complaining.
Why should I have to PvP in a zone also designed for PvE, while the opposite is not forced on PvP players?
Huh?
Yeah, PVEers have to go into PVP zones if they want ALL the skyshards, quests, delve bosses, cosmetics, and the Alliance War skills.
PVPers have to do PVE if they want to make it into PVP at all. You have to be at least 10 to enter PVP, remember? Oh, and also they have to PVE to get ALL the skyshards, quests, delve bosses, trial achievements, cosmetics, and useful skills and passive from Undaunted and the other guilds.
Both PVE and PVP are part of the base game. ZOS designed it so that if anyone wants ALL of the rewards, that person has to play ALL of the game. Overland questing, group dungeons, Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and Trials. All of it.
So, sorry, there's no unfair treatment going on, its just that the average PVEer views PVP with a lot more trepidation than the average PVPer views a group dungeon.
ZOS just wants PVEers and PVPers alike to play ALL of the game and designed ESO accordingly.
Yeah except that the Soul-Shriven skin and Scamp pet can now be sold in guild stores via Runeboxes so this defeated the purpose of going in Cyrodiil anymore lmaoEdited by Reistr_the_Unbroken on September 11, 2018 1:15PM2 -
Jinchuu✭✭✭✭
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
If you want to stay being good at nothing more than killing trash Ai that a child could easily beat then that's you prerogative. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wnats to have to read the ramblinds of a biased, closedminded, selfish person who shows serious signs of rage issues so as I said don't got here and stop posting about it.Unless you are willing to be a mindless sycophant and/or coddle others due to their insecurities prepare to be harrased by the Orwellian enforcers on these forums. You should also try to refrain from using any words more complex than those used by a small child due to the fact that said enforcers have made it clear that their vocabulary pool is aenemic.5 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
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PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!3 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »Eh, I just won't ever enter Cyrodiil period. I despise pvp, I won't do it, I won't put my girls in the way of it, and I'm anything but a completionist anyway. Y'all can sit there in your pvp glory and you'll never get a shot at me. Yeah yeah - I'm only one player. Works for me.
I actually played on a pvp server in WoW, in a friend's guild - mostly to join the guild raids. The raids weren't fun either - and getting ganked out in the world sucked boulders through straws. By the time I could holler for help from whatever guildies were online, I was dead. My lag sucks, so dead is dead usually in a couple of seconds. I got one kill on my own in 6 months - and it was actually an even-level toon. I actually HATED it - I don't believe in killing other players' characters, and it shouldn't be classed as "fun".
So I gritted it out for those 6 months and then I deleted my toons on that server, and returned to my regular servers, where I had to actively CHOOSE to pvp by flagging, the which I did NOT (unless I absent-mindedly walked into the wrong area - but that's on me.... happened a few times....) Ditto RIFT though I never did pvp there at all.
So nope, ain't hap'nin. Just - yuck. Oh. And as for ZOS? They can suck rocks too because I don't CARE about what they envision - I only care about paying them to play the game MY WAY. Selfish? Yeah. *shrug*
you take things to seriously. being killed by a player is no different then getting killed by a mob.
Mobs don't continually hunt you and call you names in the chat.. mobs do not tea bag you while threatening your family and lie style, mobs do not have pet names for you and look down on you in fo
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
If you want to stay being good at nothing more than killing trash Ai that a child could easily beat then that's you prerogative. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wnats to have to read the ramblinds of a biased, closedminded, selfish person who shows serious signs of rage issues so as I said don't got here and stop posting about it.
You are using those words on other people but have you looked in the mirror lately..1 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
If you want to stay being good at nothing more than killing trash Ai that a child could easily beat then that's you prerogative. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wnats to have to read the ramblinds of a biased, closedminded, selfish person who shows serious signs of rage issues so as I said don't got here and stop posting about it.
And if you want to do nothing but kill other people, why not go and play a game that's designed for it?
Why are you playing an MMO in which not even 10% of the content is focused for PvP players?
You call me selfish, but who is the one who wants everyone to do PvP, even the ones that don't want to? Not me, that's you. And that's selfish. You do not look beyond anything but what you want.
If you truly cared for skillful PvP, you'd support the motion that the two should be seperated. But since you don't, that says enough.2 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!
You want to tell me they aren't?4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »PVE Players: it's not fair that we have to do pvp content to get our pve content completed
PVP Players: it's not fair that we have to do pve content to be BiS for our pvp content.
The two groups may think it’s unfair because they’d rather not have to deal with the other type of content and their entitled to thei oppinion.
However, no one has provided worthy reasoning to bring about change. That’s the key point missed through this entire thread.
Zos clearly made a conscious decision to strongly encourage PvP players into PvP for the undaunted passives and more while also putting worthy skills for PvE into PvP not to mention some quests.
Zos did this on purpose and unless someone proposes a worthy reason it should be different Zos has no reason to change this. I want it to be different is not worthy.
Granted, this logic can be ignored which will also lead to zero changes.Edited by idk on September 11, 2018 2:07PM3 -
Hurtfan✭✭✭✭✭After reading this thread, PvEers stay out of Cyrodiil. Learn to live without gear and/or skills just like I do with trials gear. I still have a great time playing this game, even knowing my gear is probably gimp in PvP since I don't have the BIS gear. Heck I don't even own any vMA weapons but still manage to kill a few people.
Learn to live without the extra sky shards and lore books, if you really hate PvPing that much.
I've never (never ever) been an avid fan of PvP, I play zombie mode in CoD and don't play the PvP part at all. But for some reason, ESO got me hooked on it. And it isn't that bad, it turned out to be the only thing I really want to do in this game.
If I was strictly a PvEer, I would welcome the challenge of Cyrodiil. I read on the forums constantly that people think PvE is easy, well here's your challenge. Stealth around and try to complete quests, knowing that you could be spotted at any time and engaged by the enemy. That sounds a heck of a lot more fun than doing a quest in Wrothgar...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Edited by Hurtfan on September 11, 2018 2:43PMFor the Pact!Keyboard not found, press any key to continue3 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
If you want to stay being good at nothing more than killing trash Ai that a child could easily beat then that's you prerogative. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wnats to have to read the ramblinds of a biased, closedminded, selfish person who shows serious signs of rage issues so as I said don't got here and stop posting about it.
And if you want to do nothing but kill other people, why not go and play a game that's designed for it?
Why are you playing an MMO in which not even 10% of the content is focused for PvP players?
You call me selfish, but who is the one who wants everyone to do PvP, even the ones that don't want to? Not me, that's you. And that's selfish. You do not look beyond anything but what you want.
If you truly cared for skillful PvP, you'd support the motion that the two should be seperated. But since you don't, that says enough.
This ^^
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Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
If you want to stay being good at nothing more than killing trash Ai that a child could easily beat then that's you prerogative. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wnats to have to read the ramblinds of a biased, closedminded, selfish person who shows serious signs of rage issues so as I said don't got here and stop posting about it.
Ok, reread what you just wrote, then reread all of your other posts about why PvP is so great/kick the PvEr’s out. Then we’ll talk about who’s being a “biased, closed minded, selfish person”. Because frankly to me, it sounds like you’re the one being selfish here, not the PvEr’s.
1 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »PVE Players: it's not fair that we have to do pvp content to get our pve content completed
PVP Players: it's not fair that we have to do pve content to be BiS for our pvp content
There's no perfect answer, but my take on the whole thing is that MMO pvp is inherently flawed. Any game with versus play where person A can have 150% of the stats of person B at the same level in the same battleground / warfront / war / whatever is stupid. Period. This game actually isn't SO bad because gear is horizontal and not vertical, but there's still a lot of variance between green and gold gear.
With that in mind, the above arguments are vastly different. In PVE content, there are ways to "cheese" content, like having 3 tanks and healer to pretty much guarantee a clear albeit in 3 hours, or any number of other methods to ensure that you get the gear. But if bobby ganks-a-lot is camping billy mcqusterton as he's trying to finish the IC line or collect skyshards, he's got no choice but to come back later.
That's the critical difference: PvP is against players, who are inherently more frustrating, resourceful, and unpredictable opponents. I'm not saying PvP is harder than PvE, but you can actually prepare / practice / train for PvE content, while that is far more difficult for PvP. As many have pointed out, it's about reaction time and running with big groups and just flat-out getting lucky. There's very little "getting lucky" when it comes to fighting a boss. He doesn't decide to not gank you in that delve.
What I'm trying to say is that PvE players DO have a harder time going to Cyrodil and trying to get all their content done than PvPers jumping into dungeons. Not because PvP is harder, but because it is far easier for a PvPer to jump into PvE content than vice-versa.
Oh yeah. The learning curve for PVP is brutal. Brutal.
I remember being lost in Cyrodiil. I remember dying to NOC resource guards. I remember getting ganked whike fishing. I remember being completely and utterly useless in a fight and just having no clue what to do.
Thing is, PVP is very different from PVE. Different skills, different rotations, different combat cues, smarter enemies, different battlefields, the while nine yards.
So yeah, PVE players coming to PVP have a lot to learn. I know, because I stuck around long enough for my PVE-only-Skyrim-loving self to learn how to PVP.
I had a ton of help from PVPers along the way. From guildmates to helpful forum posts, I'm lots better than when I started. That didn't happen by accident, any more than good PVE players are born by walking into dungeons and figuring out how to do amazing DPS all on their lonesome.
We all need help from others and training and practice to get good at this game.
So, yeah, PVP has a steep learning curve. It takes practice. It takes help from other players. It takes perseverance. It takes being willing to die a lot and learn from mistakes, even once you are experienced.
Its also very doable for any player who's willing to put the effort in to find a PVP style that works for them. I love healing in PVP. Others love ganking, or tanking, or bombing, or zerging.
But if you aren't willing to put in even the basic effort of putting on Impen gear or grabbing stealth pots when you head into Imperial City, well, your learning curve for PVP is about to be very very steep indeed.
Okay, but to the point I was trying to make, a PvP team of reasonable CP (300 or more) can go into a dungeon and, regardless of gear, they will eventually complete it and get the drops they need. For the DLC dungeons, depending on which dungeon and which difficulty, they may have to refer to guides, but they CAN get what they're after relatively easily.
Ultimately, all good dps does is make you complete content faster - very few dungeons have actual dps checks of any sort, especially normal dungeons. In fact, if your healing and coordination is good enough, and you do a very moderate amount of dps, I think you can get through any dungeon of any difficulty. Trials are another story, but you really don't need trial gear to be competitive. Plenty of builds don't even use it, especially pvp builds.
On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This conversation would make sense if PvP was 95% of the game content. It’s not. PvE players who want to avoid PvP altogether already have 95% of the game content though.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!
You want to tell me they aren't?
No I want to point out your toxic post.
Look if you are afraid or nervous to PvP I understand, but that is no reason to insult or paint all PvP players as toxic which isn't even the case. Yes I am telling you they all aren't. FACT.Edited by TequilaFire on September 11, 2018 4:07PM1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
This right here?
This is highly desirable in PVP. Good luck getting a perfected Asylum 2H sword with 15k DPS in impen gear and PVP morphs.
Same thing with this:
PVPers have to PVE if they want to be the best they can be. PVEers have to go into Cyrodiil if they want all skyshards/dyes/quests completed. PVEers don't get to have everything by sticking to their preferred game mode, and the same goes for PVPers.
It's almost, you know, like the developers wanted players to engage in all aspects of the game.4 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
Pointing at gear is a strawman. PvE players don’t go to Cyrodiil for the awesome gear either. It’s about achievements and utility (skysgards/skills). And there the situation is exactly identical.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
Pointing at gear is a strawman. PvE players don’t go to Cyrodiil for the awesome gear either. It’s about achievements and utility (skysgards/skills). And there the situation is exactly identical.
What awesome PvP gear?0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
Pointing at gear is a strawman. PvE players don’t go to Cyrodiil for the awesome gear either. It’s about achievements and utility (skysgards/skills). And there the situation is exactly identical.
What awesome PvP gear?
That’s exactly the point. The equivalent of the OP request is getting Tick Tock Tormentor for beating content on the level of Wayest Sewers I.Edited by Feanor on September 11, 2018 4:11PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Overall, I think I died more to slaughterfish than other players, because its really easy to get lost in Cyrodiil and wind up in slaughterfish waters. They need warning signs or
something!
.
Actually on the bridges there are signs warning of the slaughterfish infestation in the waters.Edited by Raammzzaa on September 11, 2018 4:18PM2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No PvP player levels undaunted for ugly skins they do it for the passives command and mettle. smh0 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!
You want to tell me they aren't?
No I want to point out your toxic post.
Look if you are afraid or nervous to PvP I understand, but that is no reason to insult or paint all PvP players as toxic which isn't even the case. Yes I am telling you they all aren't. FACT.
I PvP myself, the big difference being that I'm not a ''PvP pro'' who goes out of his way to hunt down people who don't want to PvP, unlike a very large part of the PvP community.
And yes, it is toxic how the PvP community behaves. Forcing everyone into PvP because you do not want them to do what they want to do is literally the most selfish thing is the world.
I also recommend looking up the definition of the word ''fact''.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!
You want to tell me they aren't?
No I want to point out your toxic post.
Look if you are afraid or nervous to PvP I understand, but that is no reason to insult or paint all PvP players as toxic which isn't even the case. Yes I am telling you they all aren't. FACT.
I PvP myself, the big difference being that I'm not a ''PvP pro'' who goes out of his way to hunt down people who don't want to PvP, unlike a very large part of the PvP community.
And yes, it is toxic how the PvP community behaves. Forcing everyone into PvP because you do not want them to do what they want to do is literally the most selfish thing is the world.
I also recommend looking up the definition of the word ''fact''.
Since you are on about facts, the PvP players force no one into PvP the game designers did.
And I know of no one who purposely chase down PvE players who don't want to PvP they are not worth the AP for the time to head to those out of the way quest areas.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
PvE players rarely set foot in Cyrodiil, IC, and Battlegrounds because they despise PvP. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Then how about you just never go there that way we wouldn't have to read the drivel you people keep polluting these forums with. If you people put half the effort you spend crying and whining on these forums into trying to improve in pvp you'd actually be ok, I guess it's easier to throw tantrums and demand to be catered to than making any sort of change yourself (yet you somehow have the nerve to call PvPers entitled when virtually the entirety of the game is catered to you).
Because Cyrodiil, overpriviliged PvP mastermind, is also a PvE zone, and PvE players have just as much right, if not more, to set foot there and do quests there.
You just don't bloody get it, now do you? PvE players consider PvP to be one of, if not the, most boring elements in ESO. Hence why we PvE and not PvP, and hence why we want to be seperated from the toxic PvP community.
Why would I have to be good at PvP in order to do PvE?
Your calling PvP players toxic? bwahahahahahaha!
You want to tell me they aren't?
No I want to point out your toxic post.
Look if you are afraid or nervous to PvP I understand, but that is no reason to insult or paint all PvP players as toxic which isn't even the case. Yes I am telling you they all aren't. FACT.
I PvP myself, the big difference being that I'm not a ''PvP pro'' who goes out of his way to hunt down people who don't want to PvP, unlike a very large part of the PvP community.
And yes, it is toxic how the PvP community behaves. Forcing everyone into PvP because you do not want them to do what they want to do is literally the most selfish thing is the world.
I also recommend looking up the definition of the word ''fact''.
Since you are on about facts, the PvP players force no one into PvP the game designers did.
And I know of no one who purposely chase down PvE players who don't want to PvP they are not worth the AP for the time to head to those out of the way quest areas.
Also, most of us in Cyrodiil have a "kill first, ask questions later" reaction to seeing the enemy. That "innocent" PVEer hanging around near Vlastarus might be scouting for the zerg. If it's in divines gear with a PVE CP setup and I dish out my burst rotation, it's going to be dead long before I realize "oh shoot, that's a PVE player in divines."
This, again, is why I encourage people who don't like to PVP to go into Cyrodiil with cheap, defensive gear that you use solely for questing. If you have high mitigation, high crit resistance, and enough healing to keep yourself alive without dealing any damage to me, I'm going to leave you alone because you'll look like a troll tank and I won't want to waste my time.3 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
This right here?
This is highly desirable in PVP. Good luck getting a perfected Asylum 2H sword with 15k DPS in impen gear and PVP morphs.
Same thing with this:
PVPers have to PVE if they want to be the best they can be. PVEers have to go into Cyrodiil if they want all skyshards/dyes/quests completed. PVEers don't get to have everything by sticking to their preferred game mode, and the same goes for PVPers.
It's almost, you know, like the developers wanted players to engage in all aspects of the game.
Perfected is a bad example because most PvE players can't do VAS either, but if that particular weapon is desirable in pvp, then I guess there is one example of a trial item that's good for PvP.
The master items are from vDSA though, which is a 4 man. Never done it myself, but I've heard it's pretty easy, albeit time consuming. A random group of 4 experienced pvpers could complete it no problem.Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
Pointing at gear is a strawman. PvE players don’t go to Cyrodiil for the awesome gear either. It’s about achievements and utility (skysgards/skills). And there the situation is exactly identical.
But (most) PvPers don't really care about achievements or skyshards to begin with, as long as they've got enough skill points for their builds right? Different priorities with their game and all that.
PvPers care about gear mostly because that's what feeds into their builds, and PvErs mostly care about gear as well but also care about skyshards for stuff like crafting skill lines and multi role setups.
So each side has something they need to go into the other's content for, but for PvErs it's a more difficult prospect because of the nature of PvP and how it's against real people trying to kill you with optimized equipment instead of enemies that are often balanced around being technically beatable by minimal gear and skill.Edited by Crafts_Many_Boxes on September 11, 2018 5:00PM0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
This right here?
This is highly desirable in PVP. Good luck getting a perfected Asylum 2H sword with 15k DPS in impen gear and PVP morphs.
Same thing with this:
PVPers have to PVE if they want to be the best they can be. PVEers have to go into Cyrodiil if they want all skyshards/dyes/quests completed. PVEers don't get to have everything by sticking to their preferred game mode, and the same goes for PVPers.
It's almost, you know, like the developers wanted players to engage in all aspects of the game.
Perfected is a bad example because most PvE players can't do VAS either, but if that particular weapon is desirable in pvp, then I guess there is one example of a trial item that's good for PvP.
The master items are from vDSA though, which is a 4 man. Never done it myself, but I've heard it's pretty easy, albeit time consuming. A random group of 4 experienced pvpers could complete it no problem.Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »On the other hand, a team of PvE players may have a literally impossible time trying to complete quests / skyshards / etc in Cyrodil / Imp City depending on how many gankers / PvPers are around. They might be outnumbered, or they might be unable to defeat the PvPers due to their gear not being impen or pvp-specific. This assumes the PvPers are actively trying to stop them from completing their content, but this can and does happen.
So again, PvP has a much higher, more demanding barrier to entry than PvE. Saying "well, you just need to put the work in" is unreasonable and puts an unfair burden on PvErs compared to PvPers.
„Well, you just need to put the work in“ is what you’re going to hear if you want to do vTrials and parse 15k DPS. There is nothing unfair about having to meet the criteria for being successful. Everyone has the same chance.
Besides, I doubt a full group of PvE players will face any problems in a low pop campaign if they merely want the PvE stuff.
But aren't most of the PvE sets that are in the PvP meta just from dungeons / overworld / crafted? Is there even a single trial set that's considered "good" for PvP? They mostly have minor slayer / defensive monster buff on them, which is worthless for PvP.
If there really are a bunch of bunch of trial sets that are desired for pvp (would be news to me), then I can understand not being able to get 12 players together. That is an argument against what I'm saying, albeit a weak one. But as for vet trials, most PvE players can't do enough dps either, so that's a moot point. It really just comes down to having to field a team for a normal trial, which admittedly might be tougher for PvPers.
Pointing at gear is a strawman. PvE players don’t go to Cyrodiil for the awesome gear either. It’s about achievements and utility (skysgards/skills). And there the situation is exactly identical.
But (most) PvPers don't really care about achievements or skyshards to begin with, as long as they've got enough skill points for their builds right? Different priorities with their game and all that.
PvPers care about gear mostly because that's what feeds into their builds, and PvErs mostly care about gear as well but also care about skyshards for stuff like crafting skill lines and multi role setups.
So each side has something they need to go into the other's content for, but for PvErs it's a more difficult prospect because of the nature of PvP and how it's against real people trying to kill you with optimized equipment instead of enemies that are often balanced around being technically beatable by minimal gear and skill.
I'm well aware that vDSA is a 4-man arena. My point is that PVPers need to PVE if they want the best gear -- and that includes participating in trials and tougher 4-man veteran content like DSA (which is going to require more than 15k DPS to complete smoothly). There are very few sets that can be acquired through AP or tel var that are worth using. To grind for gear efficiently as a PVPer, you need to throw on PVE gear. Why can't PVEers throw on PVP gear when they quest and hunt skyshards in Cyrodiil? Seriously: 5 Fortified Brass, 5 Impregnable, 2 Chudan. All impen, 5 heavy, one light, one medium. NO GANKER is going to kill you -- especially not one that's SO bad it has to rely on picking off PVEers to get kills.2
This discussion has been closed.