Magblade - Which skills?

lucky_dutch · September 2018

Struggling with picking skills for my magblade both for survival and for cc. I mostly play Battlegrounds but also enjoy trying to tackle difficult solo content.

For survival I always have Healing Ward and Refreshing Path but have to pick between Mirage, Dampen Magic. One is more of a direct shield whereas the other boosts overall resistances. Given I'm in at least 5 pieces of light armor, is the flat shield (Dampen Magic) better?

The cc decision is hard also. I really only have room for one on my bars which is a big shame. Fear is really strong for when you get overwhelmed but flame reach is much more effective against casters and has some uses in non-TDM battlegrounds such as stopping a relic carrier and with the master staff it's actually a decent addition to my damage rotation which is key for keeping my opponents on the defensive. If I decide I absolutely must have both then I need to drop a defensive skill or Siphoning Attacks which would really hurt my sustain!

Looking for some guidance from more experienced players!

Thank you!

fred4 · September 2018

On a light armor build I'd go with Dampen over Mirage every time. Aside from absorbing damage, shields also mean you can't be crit. The resistance buff from Mirage is really small and IMO only becomes valuable in a resistance stacking build, for example in a heavy armor build with Blood Spawn. The Major Evasion is the bigger attraction to that skill, but I am not a fan of the RNG. You might dodge an attack, but if you get hit, you get hit hard in light armor. Dampen is better.

If you cloak and move about a lot, then I'd even question Refreshing Path, although it is a good heal and can expose other NBs. Again, it is a skill I associate more with heavy armor, and possibly a non-cloaking playstyle.

Fear only CCs up to two enemies now. It used to be 3. I find it quite situational. If you are zerged down, it can be hard to judge when to use Fear, because there are times when only spamming Healing Ward will save you. It's other use is to get blocking players to drop block, or to CC flappy DKs, something that Flame Reach can't do. Overall I prefer Flame Reach though. Since you have the master staff, it can even replace your spammable, although I find it very, very hard to give up Swallow Soul / Funnel Health on a ranged NB on account of the HOT you get from that. If you had a Master ice staff, that could be worth trying, since there is no immunity against the root, other than Forward Momentum.

Don't forget you also have other CCs, e.g. Concealed Weapon from Cloak, Incap Strike and Soul Tether. Despite the nerf, I think Incap is still the way to go, in PvP, instead of Soul Harvest.

I play mostly in CP. I suppose you know BGs are no CP, and your magicka will be lower. Shields scale with magicka and are more effective in CP, and much more effective in PvE. As a light armor build, shields are the way to go, though. Don't worry too much about your resistances, other than crit resist. Instead make sure to make the most of your shields, as follows:

* Slot Inner Light on the shield bar, if it suits the build, and make sure you have a Siphoning skill on that bar, for a total +15% magicka. Inner Light and Shield make a good combination on your main bar, if you have room for both.
* If you are wearing an armor set that you only need / want to complete on one bar, consider using a Willpower weapon on the other bar - the shielding bar - for the extra magicka = bigger shield.
* Consider using Temporal Guard (the Psijic ult) on the shielding bar for Minor Protection, which reduces damage by 8% before it hits the shield.
* If you still feel squishy in PvP, try Wizard's Riposte, which equals 15% damage reduction, before the shield.
* The CP to invest in, in the red trees, include Bastion, Hardy, Elemental Defender, Thick Skinned (if not cloaking), Ironclad and Resistant. Avoid Spell Shield and Light Armor Focus, as those CP only reduce damage after shields, and are also quite inefficient compared to other stars.
* Be sure to have Undaunted Mettle and wear 5/1/1.

In general, for light armor builds, it helps to be a magicka-boosting race, such as High Elf or Breton, and to prefer stacking magicka, rather than Spell Damage. Taken to the extreme, magblade and warden can get over 50K magicka, in CP, by wearing Necropotence together with other magicka boosting sets. Shadow Image counts as a pet. This means your Harness / Dampen tooltip will be around 10K in CP PvP. Dampen is the correct choice, by the way. Harness is great for sustain, but you need all the shield size you can get, and Harness is a relatively poor defense against stamina builds.

I find Siphoning Attacks too good to drop. Just about. It tends to be the obligatory 8% magicka-boosting Siphoning skill on one of the bars. It will allow you to run a damage glyph on jewelry that you might otherwise use for sustain. It can be just the magicka boost you need to run around for longer, in cloak, while out of combat.

lucky_dutch · September 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Snip

That is tremendously helpful, thank you for taking the time to write all that for me.

It doesn't sound like my skill choices are radically different to yours to be fair as I have been opting for Reach over Fear & Dampen Magic over Mirage at present so those decisions have now been validated!

Looks like I definitely need to buy summerset and level the psyjic order though. I never actually use my current back bar skill (lights champion) because I'd almost rather die in a BG than waste ulti on that and be unable to incap - bow for a while. Passive 8% damage mitigation would be so much better for when I'm shield stacking to try to survive.

I do have a couple of questions for you (hope you don't mind):

Do you think the boosted shield strength from inner light is superior to the (albeit slightly situational) healing & shadow barrier granted by refreshing path?
I do have siphoning attacks slotted as you suggest but I see a lot of people with that and stealth on the front bar and crippling on the back. That makes no sense to me though as I would have thought you wanted crippling on the front to be easily woven into your damage rotation and stealth on the back so it's next to your defensives?
I've never used concealed weapon because I simply don't have the bar space for it (same as fear) but you mentioned it so should I be?
Slightly off-topic but do you prefer Zaan, skoria or 1 domihaus and 1 ilambris? Zaan is definitely the highest damage but requires to get close to the enemy which puts you at risk (where possible I prefer to pick kills from the safety of range/behind my team mates). Skoria is ranged and a good extra source of damage but domihaus an ilambris would contribute to both damage and shields. It's a tough decision!

fred4 · September 2018

I prefer Temporal Guard over Light's Champion for exactly the reason you mention. It's actually really good passively, as it also gives you another small shield, when you block, by having a Psijic skill slotted. There are a few times when it is actually helpful - and fun - as an escape tool, especially if you don't use the shade.

Regarding Inner Light, no, I don't think that. Inner Light is good when you also want the crit, are not getting that from a potion, and when you have a ton of magicka to begin with. I wouldn't use it purely to boost shield strength. There are just too many other good skills, Path being one of them.

Regarding Siphoning Attacks, that is very build dependent. Having it on the cloak bar makes sense, since it's a buff you can maintain while remaining cloaked. It also returns mag when it expires, so is useful while you are cloaking, not just in combat. Bar swapping while cloaking is a right pain, not to mention unreliable when there is lag. I run it on the main / cloaking bar, but I run a different build than you.

Where to put Crippling when you're running destro / resto? Either bar has it's uses. I agree with you on the rotation thing. On the other hand I know that some people use it, and sometimes spam it, to stave off opponents while on the defensive bar. There is no CC immunity against that little root it does, which can be really annoying to melee opponents who don't use Forward Momentum.

Concealed Weapon doesn't fit into a ranged build. Like you say, you'll be using Strife, most likely, and there really isn't the bar space for another spammable. I use it because I mostly play open world and I love, love, love the added speed while cloaking. This led me to a hybrid melee / ranged playstyle.

The short answer regarding monster sets is that I prefer Troll King or Blood Spawn. Since I use a proc set (Caluurion), I am less dependent on stats these days, but have used 1x Domi + 1x Mag set in the past. As a ganker, Skoria would not work in my build, but should work well in a build that uses Crippling and Flame Reach. I don't have first-hand experience with Zaan. Based on what I've seen and read about, I would probably choose Skoria for your build. Procs tend to be OP in no CP. Skoria, in particular, is strong, unavoidable, bursty, and works at range.

fred4 · September 2018

Just for giggles, this is the build I currently run:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=85566

It is a ganking build. You cloak, then jump in with Lotus Fan, which is guaranteed to proc Caluurion, since Shadowy Disguise guarantees that Lotus Fan will crit. You then light attack, which is guaranteed to proc the enchant. As it is a shock enchant, it can proc Concussion for an extra 8% damage. Then comes Incap, which stuns, and Caluurion hits at the same time. If the player is not dead, you spam Concealed.

Some players consider Caluurion totally OP, but it never got the level of attention that Sloads did. I am cynical, so I think the reason is that far fewer people use this setup, because Caluurion comes from DLC, is hard to farm, and is most effective with magblades only. It hinges on Shadowy Disguise and having a Caluurion weapon on just one bar to control the proc.

The reality with Caluurion is that you kill noobs with it. It enables the melee ganking playstyle of stamblades on a magblade, but it doesn't threaten experienced players more than stamblades do. There is a one second delay before it procs. An experienced player will have shields up, will be too tanky, or will dodge roll immediately when you gap close, avoiding both Caluurion and Incap.

In larger fights, the idea is to build ultimate on the resto bar, then cloak, tab target a player and gank / try to execute them mid-fight.

The reason I use Funnel aside from the healing and Troll King synergy (heals other players with Troll King), is because I play a lot in IC, and I stay ranged in boss fights. The Infused prismatic enchant works wonders in that context, and also against vampire players.

You'll notice that I use Forward Momentum. I don't really make builds without it, regardless of mag or stam. Besides the snare immunity, it serves to activate Troll King when there is no other healing going on. In addition you'll notice the 3x Swift, which stack with the Concealed speed buff. The build has a lot of mobility, which increases the viability of Cloak without using the shade.

I am not suggesting you should play melee. This is just an example of such a build, in case it is of interest. It's a total compromise, especially in terms of the magicka pool. It is balanced mainly around CP Imperial City gameplay.

fred4 · September 2018

A few more notes. The magicka nightblade is my most-played PvP character, and the culmination of how I like to PvP. I like speed. I hate roots and snares. I like to be able to go toe to toe with all classes and, as a solo player, I like the ability to pick my fights. I wanted Concealed for the ability to run around fast while perma-cloaking. I could write another few paragraphs on why that leads to Atronach Mundus + Ghastly Eye Bowl + Light Armor + Cost Reduction Glyphs for the sustain...

The weapon choices were determined by Forward Momentum and Healing Ward. I have not found a better combination for defense, or at least not one that's as easy to use. Forward Momentum means you can disengage from DKs, from ice-mage wardens, and from that heavy templar Jabs snare at will. If your opponents are fast, they can still get you, but they have to work for it. Speed goes hand in hand with Forward Momentum. Before Swift I was often using Skooma Smuggler, which grants Major Expedition. The alternatives to Forward Momentum are, IMO, Mist Form and the shade. The latter is harder to use, while I just never took a liking to vampire, nor to Mist Form as a skill.

I use Concealed, and the hybrid melee playstyle, mainly because Forward Momentum dictates a 2H weapon. The other benefit is that you gain a tool against flappy DKs, making the build more rounded in terms of the opponents you can fight. When Caluurion came along, it fit right in with the 2H / resto build I was already using. That said, Caluurion is actually a drawback when fighting DKs, as it can be reflected. You kind of have to rely on them not realising that. They tend to stop flapping wings when you attack them purely with melee

.

lucky_dutch · September 2018

fred4 wrote: »

I use Concealed, and the hybrid melee playstyle, mainly because Forward Momentum dictates a 2H weapon. The other benefit is that you gain a tool against flappy DKs, making the build more rounded in terms of the opponents you can fight. When Caluurion came along, it fit right in with the 2H / resto build I was already using. That said, Caluurion is actually a drawback when fighting DKs, as it can be reflected. You kind of have to rely on them not realising that. They tend to stop flapping wings when you attack them purely with melee .

This interests me a great deal. I do enjoy the semi-ranged magblade build due to the security range offers but not having a snare break is so intensely annoying. In BGs I feel like I am almost permanently afflicted with some form of snare!

Might have to try this one once I get a bit more accomplished (and braver).

Thanks so much for all the useful information!!

Snootking · September 2018

Found this thread rely interesting as somebody starting a new magblade. The versatility of how you can play this class id what really attracts me.

Could either of you give any advice on what skills I should use and why, and how I should have my bars set up as a BEGINNER to both magblade and pvp as a whole?

This would be BG and no cp to start off.

Thanks

WoppaBoem · September 2018

Swallow Soul - Flame Reach - Cripple - Cloak

Cloak should always be your first defence and keep at range.

I advice war maiden. With above skills you can burn down any enemy very fast.

Total advice of skills :

Swallow Soul - Flame Reach - Cripple - Cloak - Merciless - Incap for TDM and Elemental Rage for objective gameplay
Mutagen - Siphoning - Healing Ward - Refresing Path (speed buff plus heal) - Flex spot (impale-fear-Evasion) - Life Giver

I almost never die if I keep at range and cloak once targetted.

moosegod · September 2018

Any thoughts on strife vs elemental weapon for a magnb spamable? I recently tried EW on my NB after using it on my warden and I'm having good results. It does basically the same damage (100 less damage than strife in the tooltip) and it costs about 15% less than strife.

I chose to try EW because it gives the enemy a debuff rather than strife providing a HoT. And the rng of the debuff isn't that big a deal because all three status effects prove useful. Burning will proc skoria, and minor maim (chilled) or minor vulnerability (concussed) are both great debuffs, all this from one skill. Plus all the psijic passives like spell orb and the shield when blocking are welcomed bonuses. I am still getting used to weaving it because it feels a bit wonky at first but when I dont screw up it hits pretty hard.

I'm interested in hearing other magnb's thoughts. Have you tried both skills? Which do you prefer, and why?

Snootking · September 2018

@WoppaBoem thanks for your advice.
I never play solo do you think funnel would be better over swallow for the group utility?

Also, could you give an example of what your combo would be when engaging an enemy?

Sparr0w · September 2018

An offensive one, a defensive one, a buff, a debuff. What ever works for you, there's no definitive answer.

Personally I run Healing Ward/Harness/Funnel/Relentless/Siphoning/Cloak/Shade/Reach/Mirage/Inner light. Eye of the Storm & Incap.

WoppaBoem · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

@WoppaBoem thanks for your advice.
I never play solo do you think funnel would be better over swallow for the group utility?

Also, could you give an example of what your combo would be when engaging an enemy?

Funnel would be better due to the healer medals you get.

Cripple & flame reach to start - use Skoria monster set if this procs target is heavily damaged. Finish with funnel health & light attacks. If not dead and merciless procs, go in cloak for 100% crit hit and shoot bow.

Plus always buff up ofcourse, keep at the back of the fight, heal your team if possible, burn down enemies, if in trouble cloak.

Due to healing I get many medals. Kill many enemies and almost never die.

Found it bit borring at the end so I am now going to stam setups and try that out. Just Keep health of team up, being able to stun from distange, cripple enemies that want to escape and being able to burn down enemies from distange will make you a strong winner.

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

moosegod wrote: »

Any thoughts on strife vs elemental weapon for a magnb spamable? I recently tried EW on my NB after using it on my warden and I'm having good results. It does basically the same damage (100 less damage than strife in the tooltip) and it costs about 15% less than strife.

I chose to try EW because it gives the enemy a debuff rather than strife providing a HoT. And the rng of the debuff isn't that big a deal because all three status effects prove useful. Burning will proc skoria, and minor maim (chilled) or minor vulnerability (concussed) are both great debuffs, all this from one skill. Plus all the psijic passives like spell orb and the shield when blocking are welcomed bonuses. I am still getting used to weaving it because it feels a bit wonky at first but when I dont screw up it hits pretty hard.

I'm interested in hearing other magnb's thoughts. Have you tried both skills? Which do you prefer, and why?

Imo, If you're doing pvp strife/morphs are a must, for pve imbue weapon typically has higher dps than strife, but you lose heals with it.

Snootking · September 2018

@WoppaBoem ok thanks very much.

Will be perfect to learn how to pvp with and as I get more confident can always switch stuff up.

Do you think it would be worth double slotting inner light, moving cloak to the back bar and not using mutagen? The higher magicka and spell crit could make the existing heals stronger whilst also bolstering offence? (Plus one less thing to cast on each bar)

What are your thoughts?

WoppaBoem · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

@WoppaBoem ok thanks very much.

Will be perfect to learn how to pvp with and as I get more confident can always switch stuff up.

Do you think it would be worth double slotting inner light, moving cloak to the back bar and not using mutagen? The higher magicka and spell crit could make the existing heals stronger whilst also bolstering offence? (Plus one less thing to cast on each bar)

What are your thoughts?

I tried that Because I am also coming from PVE. Cloak is always on front bar with me as when you can react fast you are very hard to kill. So wont advice changing that. The extra crit is nice however I decided to run the spell power poition when I needed the extra damage and crit.

Mutagen I loved it, gave me much medals for healing, I can help the team, cheap and when health is dropping it jumps back up if active very handy. And made me feel a bit like a healer which is nice never made a healer character.

But as always in this game try what works for you half the fun half the frustration

Snootking · September 2018

@WoppaBoem ok thank you for all your advice you've been very helpful

Cloak on the front bar will be helpful to especially so I don't fumble it in a panic haha and mutagen sounds like it will be helpful to stay alive not just for me but the group!

I'm guessing healing ward is mainly used as an "oh ***" heal when you are in trouble?

Also, what exactly can be used when in cloak without losing cloak?

And what gear would you recommend?
I'm thinking Valkyn over Zaan just so I can keep my distance and maybe 5 shacklebreaker and 5 caluurions? (I dont have any maelstrom staff)

WoppaBoem · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

@WoppaBoem ok thank you for all your advice you've been very helpful

Cloak on the front bar will be helpful to especially so I don't fumble it in a panic haha and mutagen sounds like it will be helpful to stay alive not just for me but the group!

I'm guessing healing ward is mainly used as an "oh ***" heal when you are in trouble?

Also, what exactly can be used when in cloak without losing cloak?

And what gear would you recommend?
I'm thinking Valkyn over Zaan just so I can keep my distance and maybe 5 shacklebreaker and 5 caluurions? (I dont have any maelstrom staff)

Zaan sucks as you don't want to be up close yes. Valkyn gives me a lot of kills so yes. Shacklebreaker yes for BG very nice to have on. I use war maiden. I was farming Caluurions and tried it a bit with the pieces I had, I found it very slow. I have seen people using it with two handed magica setup and that is great as its up close. For range it was rather slow and BG's is very fast paced. I preferred the none proc setup with war maiden. I am not there yet in PVP with proc sets as I was in PVE. I focus for the moment on the best none proc set and my skills and who knows what I will be doing in a couple of months and decide to go for procs.

fred4 · September 2018

moosegod wrote: »

Any thoughts on strife vs elemental weapon for a magnb spamable? Have you tried both skills? Which do you prefer, and why?

Elemental sustains better and does about 2K more sustained damage on my builds, either in a DPS rotation on a target skeleton or when spamming it against bosses in IC. However for PvP I always go with Strife, since I find the heal invaluable. If I were to give up the heal, I would probably go with Crushing Shock to interrupt dark dealing sorcs, and because it's unreflectable.

fred4 · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

I never play solo do you think funnel would be better over swallow for the group utility?

Yes, and especially if you are wearing Troll King.

fred4 · September 2018

WoppaBoem wrote: »

I advice war maiden.

It's a good set for PvP magblade. That said, I personally stay away from sets that only buff one type of damage. Those sets don't buff healing, except maybe Strife, nor do they increase your shield strength. The longer I play, the more I favor sets that give you straight up stats and that include some stam sustain, e.g. Shacklebreaker and Amber Plasm.

Snootking · September 2018

@fred4 would you recommend shackle and amber together or would shackle do the job well enough and pair it with a damage set like julianos?

mursie · September 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Just for giggles, this is the build I currently run:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=85566

It is a ganking build. You cloak, then jump in with Lotus Fan, which is guaranteed to proc Caluurion, since Shadowy Disguise guarantees that Lotus Fan will crit. You then light attack, which is guaranteed to proc the enchant. As it is a shock enchant, it can proc Concussion for an extra 8% damage. Then comes Incap, which stuns, and Caluurion hits at the same time. If the player is not dead, you spam Concealed.

Some players consider Caluurion totally OP, but it never got the level of attention that Sloads did. I am cynical, so I think the reason is that far fewer people use this setup, because Caluurion comes from DLC, is hard to farm, and is most effective with magblades only. It hinges on Shadowy Disguise and having a Caluurion weapon on just one bar to control the proc.

The reality with Caluurion is that you kill noobs with it. It enables the melee ganking playstyle of stamblades on a magblade, but it doesn't threaten experienced players more than stamblades do. There is a one second delay before it procs. An experienced player will have shields up, will be too tanky, or will dodge roll immediately when you gap close, avoiding both Caluurion and Incap.

In larger fights, the idea is to build ultimate on the resto bar, then cloak, tab target a player and gank / try to execute them mid-fight.

The reason I use Funnel aside from the healing and Troll King synergy (heals other players with Troll King), is because I play a lot in IC, and I stay ranged in boss fights. The Infused prismatic enchant works wonders in that context, and also against vampire players.

You'll notice that I use Forward Momentum. I don't really make builds without it, regardless of mag or stam. Besides the snare immunity, it serves to activate Troll King when there is no other healing going on. In addition you'll notice the 3x Swift, which stack with the Concealed speed buff. The build has a lot of mobility, which increases the viability of Cloak without using the shade.

I am not suggesting you should play melee. This is just an example of such a build, in case it is of interest. It's a total compromise, especially in terms of the magicka pool. It is balanced mainly around CP Imperial City gameplay.

love the build - i run the same thing but it's zaan/shackle/surge/vma resto

i've tried to play range magblade. i just can't do it. i'm way more effective with melee. i dont know how ranged magblades do it.

fred4 · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

I'm guessing healing ward is mainly used as an "oh ***" heal when you are in trouble?

Yes. Single best magicka healing skill for all classes, except when you are facing Shield Breaker. It can be the only heal in some builds (more likely sorcs, though). If you look at my build, you'll notice many other sources of healing, because I was playing destro / 2H for a while. Even so, and even though I already use Dampen, Healing Ward has made me noticeably tankier again.

Also, what exactly can be used when in cloak without losing cloak?

That's quite easy to test yourself, but off the top of my head, Siphoning Attacks, Merciless Resolve, and Harness / Dampen.

And what gear would you recommend? I'm thinking Valkyn over Zaan just so I can keep my distance and maybe 5 shacklebreaker and 5 caluurions? (I dont have any maelstrom staff)

Valkyn, Troll King, Blood Spawn, or 1x Domihaus + 1x other magicka boosting set.

I wouldn't use Caluu in a ranged build. Shacklebreaker, Amber Plasm, Bloodthorn, Seducer, Necropotence (if using the shade), Wizard's Riposte.

War Maiden and Innate Axiom, subject to my reservations above. Julianos should also work. Having a Willpower weapon on your main bar and Spell Power Cure on the other is another way to get the equivalent of 400 spell damage.

Transmutation (the armor set) is probably still viable single bar (unlike Riposte). Less effective than Riposte on the whole, but provides a group buff that doesn't fall into the Major / Minor system, thus valuable for group play. Requires Funnel, Mutagen / Rapid Regen or other HOTs. Applies to yourself and others.

Defensive sets like Armor Master, Fortified Brass, Pariah and Impregnable also work. These only have an effect when your shields are down, but the former three can be useful in Imperial City (less damage from bosses) and are decent in no CP in general.

For the nastiest ganking setup, in CP or no CP, Caluurion, Overwhelming Surge, and Zaan. The drawbacks are (1) Surge can proc from Cloak and draw you into a fight when you don't want it, (2) You need to play melee for Caluurion to be effective, and you need to single bar it, (3) You'll be an easily killed glass cannon.

Snootking · September 2018

@fred4 thank you for your reply. Thats a lot of useful info and its clear you have great insight with magblades.

One question: does max mag not make soul harvest deal more damage than incap? Or is it just because it stuns that its better?

I will still be wanting to do PvE content so was hoping to keep soul harvest and would the ultimate gain on kill not be worth it?

I also would love to use the shade and go shacklebreaker + necro but i think whilst i am learning magblade it might be too difficult a tool.

Currently thinking of this set up for my bars and gear and keeping my distance. Once I'm more confident I may switch to a hybrid melee/range build as the playstyle sounds very fun.

Front:
Funnel health, Flame reach, Crippling grasp, Merciless resolve, Inner light, Soul harvest/Incapacitating strike

Back:
Twisting path, Cloak, Healing ward, Siphoning attacks, Inner light, Life Giver

2 x valkyn skoria, 5 x julianos, 5 x shacklebreaker

What do you think?

If you have any thoughts at all on something even completely different but beginner friendly dont hesitate to give me something completely different haha.

fred4 · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

@fred4 would you recommend shackle and amber together or would shackle do the job well enough and pair it with a damage set like julianos?

If those are the choices, I would wear Shackle + Amber.

You might take a look at my thread here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Shackle and Amber are both statistically better than Julianos. However, whether that's useful depends on how much you value the stam sustain. For me, the answer is yes, I do value it that much. Having more stam sustain means you can occasionally dodge roll or sprint, and with break free so expensive in no CP, I think that is even more useful in that environment. Also, in my build, Forward Momentum costs stamina.

There is another side to this. If you want to cloak a lot, you need to be mindful of your idle magicka recovery. What you see in your character sheet are the in-combat recoveries. Your idle, out of combat, recoveries are different. Generally higher, but also different. Idle recovery is derived from everything, but magicka recovery bonuses on gear. Shacklebreaker and Amber Plasm do not influence your idle recovery. While you cloak, the game will frequently consider you out of combat and use your idle recoveries. Thus, Shackle and Amber don't tend to help with sustaining cloak. If you want to cloak a lot, it is better to get cost reduction and/or get your magicka recovery elsewhere, such as from the Atronach mundus and Ghastly Eye Bowl, Witchmother's Potent Brew, or Clockwork Citrus Fillet. This is why you see some cost reduction jewelry in my build, or why you might wear Seducer. Once you do that, you have so much magicka sustain already that wearing both Shacklebreaker and Amber Plasm becomes a bit redundant. At least when you also use Siphoning Attacks and you are in CP.

I tend to build like that, e.g. with Atronach mundus and Ghastly Eye Bowl. The downside of doing so is that you will tend to be short of stamina and health. Shacklebreaker fixes the stamina issue, and to get both health and stamina up, Hakeijo enchants are pretty much mandatory on all gear. That's OK. Hakeijo enchants give you 50% more stats than other enchants, so that is something you want to take advantage of. On the other hand Ghastly Eye Bowl and Witchmother's Potent Brew are both inefficient foods, compared to tri-stat foods. The latter give you more stats overall. If I were to rank foods like armor sets, it would go something like this:

Ghastly Eye Bowl: 7
Witchmother's Potent Brew: 8
Longfin Pasty with Melon Sauce: 11

Another build philosophy would be to use Shackle + Amber + tri-stat food, at which point that set combination would really come into it's own. However, your out-of-combat cloak sustain would suffer. Also, if you are wearing Troll King, and you have the gold to pay for Citrus Fillet, that is probably the best food you can get.

fred4 · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

One question: does max mag not make soul harvest deal more damage than incap? Or is it just because it stuns that its better?

Because it stuns. However, ultimates scale with your highest stat, so they both scale from your magicka and spell damage. The tooltips are, in fact very similar. That said, Soul Harvest did about 40% more damage in my target skeleton tests, due to CP and spell penetration. I also suspect the crit rate on Soul Harvest will be higher. No matter, the stun trumps everything for me. That will depend on build and playstyle, I suppose. If you use Fear or Flame Reach anyway, you may prefer Soul Harvest.

Another "that said": A classic playstyle is the Soul Tether -> Assassin's Will combo. This would allow you to keep Soul Harvest for PvE and have an ulti with stun for PvP. I have a vague recollection that Soul Tether used to stun through block, though, which it doesn't do anymore. Another option is Dawnbreaker of Smiting, even though it's physical damage. I mention this, just to say it's possible, and some people use Dawnbreaker on magicka builds. Once I looked more at your build below, I'd probably go with Meteor or Soul Assault.

I invest 31 points (13%) into Thaumaturge to get the +12% weapon crit passive, regardless of using DOTs in the build. Take any (1-piece) medium armor passive for weapon crit too. The prismatic weapon enchant uses weapon crit, not spell crit (last I checked anyway). I guess Incap probably does too.

I will still be wanting to do PvE content so was hoping to keep soul harvest and would the ultimate gain on kill not be worth it?

The ultimate gain might be worth it in Imperial City (from mobs) or if you played a bomb build. As a ganker, I would say it's less useful. In BGs, I'm not sure.

Currently thinking of this set up:

Front:
Funnel health, Flame reach, Crippling grasp, Merciless resolve, Inner light, Soul harvest/Incapacitating strike

Back:
Twisting path, Cloak, Healing ward, Siphoning attacks, Inner light, Life Giver

2 x valkyn skoria, 5 x julianos, 5 x shacklebreaker

What do you think?

Looks pretty good, but I'm opinionated, so let's see:

Since you are totally ranged, you might try Meteor. Soul Assault is another good option, but Meteor will combo better with Merciless.

I'd use Refreshing Path, if you're using that skill. It's a good heal, in fact it is quite strong as HOTs go, and you want to pile as much healing as you can on top of each other. Twisting is a PvE skill. I guess since you want to keep that for PvE, maybe slot something else here. You might start experimenting with Shadow Image to get used to it.

Inner Light is what I slot when I don't know what else to do. It makes sense on the front bar, in your build, but I wouldn't double-bar it.

No one runs Life Giver

. Everyone runs Light's Champion. Major Protection is OP and Major Force at least brings an offensive aspect to the skill. As defensive ults go, the resto ult is great, but you don't want to use it frequently. The moment you start using it too much, you're probably developing bad habits. You want to use your aggressive ult to burst people. That's why I switched to Temporal Guard, which gives you Minor Protection passively, effectively increasing shields by 8%. You also get a shield when you're blocking from it (Psijic passive).

I'm not sure how you'll fare with this build when a stamblade jumps on top of you. I am used to shields and would probably run Dampen in place of Inner Light on the back bar. Someone once told me I'm doing it wrong. I think what he meant was that Magicka NBs are historically good at healing while attacking and shouldn't waste time with shields. That's more of a heavy armor build philosophy though, in which case you'd definitely want Refreshing Path, and maybe Mutagen.

Snootking · September 2018

@fred4 ok thanks again thats a lot to take in to consideration.

I actually meant to put refreshing path in that build haha as I'd rather take the small dps drop for extra heals in PvE anyway.

I didn't even think about meteor or soul assault but they both sound like good choices. Do you think the destro ulti would fit too for the mean time (haven't got mages guild up or completed main story with this toon yet)? I think in some BG modes it would be useful to plop down on a flag etc.

Ok I will run lights champion until I do the psijic storyline. 8% shields sounds too good.

I didn't think about running dampen but I will have it morphed to harness magicka for pve... will it still be worth it? Do you use shields before engaging or just as a defence/reaction?

fred4 · September 2018

Snootking wrote: »

I didn't even think about meteor or soul assault but they both sound like good choices. Do you think the destro ulti would fit too for the mean time (haven't got mages guild up or completed main story with this toon yet)? I think in some BG modes it would be useful to plop down on a flag etc.

Ah, the destro ult. Well, if you use it, then definitely the mobile one. I see it more as a large group / zerg skill, definitely not a 1v1 skill. I don't think I've ever died to anyone using that in a duel. I guess it could be good in BG, but I'm not sure, since I don't play that much.

I didn't think about running dampen but I will have it morphed to harness magicka for pve... will it still be worth it?

Harness is great until you run into stamina toons. It is fantastic for sustain, especially if someone Soul Assaults you. The problem is two fold. If you fight mag toons, or mixed groups with mag toons, you will become used to the sustain and severely miss it when you only run into stam toons. The second problem is that it isn't large enough. You're not a sorc. You can't shield stack. If you run Shackle / Necro / Domihaus / Inner Light, you can get magicka to 50K in CP, and the tooltip into the 10K range. In that case Harness may work for you. Have less magicka, and a glass cannon stamblade will tear through your shield. That's why Dampen is better. Shields are generally more effective in CP. In no CP you'll probably always want Dampen, just so it becomes large enough to be useful.

Do you use shields before engaging or just as a defence/reaction?

Dampen: Before, Healing Ward: As a reaction. That's the big difference. Healing Ward can also go to another person, whereas Dampen always goes to you.

My play tends to go like this. I gap close from cloak and do an Incap / Caluurion combo. Very few people die outright from that, but they may end up with very low health, in which case I stay on the offensive by spamming Concealed + light attacks. If that doesn't work, or they didn't take much damage in the first place, I prepare for their counter-attack. That means Dampen. If they are NB, or just really tanky: Mark. Then Funnel, to establish some healing, then Cripple. Basically waiting for ult to get ready and have another stab with a Caluurion burst. Concealed, from Cloak, is another option to stun them at this point.

Basically, while I'm visible, I always aim to keep the shield up. In particular, always shield before going through a door, in IC, because that is where you get ganked. Once you are on the offensive, it's judgement call. Having the upper hand in a fight is a powerful incentive to keep beating on your enemy and neglect your own health. On the other hand it makes you vulnerable to be picked off by other nightblades. Don't do it against DKs either. When they have an ulti in hand, they can turn the tables very quickly. If you were both low health, the DK wins, because he got health from using his ulti. But I suppose that's true, in general. A stamblade can be on their last legs, but if they Incap you, and you didn't shield, they'll turn the fight just as easily.

With my kind of health, just over 20K in CP, Dampen is essential while you're standing on a resource. There is currently a ganker in IC who runs Incap / Lethal Arrow combos from melee range. He hit my similarly specd magplar, who forgot to shield, for 22K. I don't know whether this is a new thing, but it's insane. No warning. Impossible to react to, as it truly happens instantly. I think, because Snipe has a cast time and a travel time, it allows you to hit with Incap the same instant Snipe hits by casting Snipe -> Incap. That is one reason why you must shield, when you are visible, unless you ran a higher health or tankier build.

Things may be a bit different in no CP, as I am not sure you can develop the same burst there. All the same, while I cloak a lot, I also like being in a fight sometimes. That's when I use Dampen. You may also be forced to, e.g. because you were marked, detected, or you want to prevent the resource turning for the other guy, which is what happens when you cloak.

Snootking · September 2018

@fred4 ok thank you for all this man there's a lot to consider.

Think it's just a case now of me playing and learning by doing. Will definitely be just slotting inner light on the front bar and replacing it with dampen on the back bar.

I guess I will just have to build pve to manage with using dampen instead of harness as pvp is more important to me!

Thanks again

fred4 · September 2018

fred4 wrote: »

There is currently a ganker in IC who runs Incap / Lethal Arrow combos from melee range. He hit my similarly specd magplar, who forgot to shield, for 22K. I don't know whether this is a new thing, but it's insane. No warning. Impossible to react to, as it truly happens instantly. I think, because Snipe has a cast time and a travel time, it allows you to hit with Incap the same instant Snipe hits by casting Snipe -> Incap.

In answer to my own question, this probably is a new thing. I bet he was using Balorgh, Marksman, and maybe something like Spriggan or Automaton. He figured out that when you cast Snipe -> Incap, the game engine being the obscure beast that it is, procs Incap first, as shown in my combat logs. That would add up to 1K weapon damage to Snipe.