NyassaV wrote: »

Can it move?

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

And that makes them irrelevant?

They are no less important than you, and most of the time those types of players are HUGE supporters of the game.

Theyre not irrelevant, they can complete any in game content. I have a magicka and stamina version of all classes, everything in this game is important

You implied that people who do the upper-end of endgame content are a small player base and are therefore less relevant despite being larger supporters of the game than even a lot of casual players. I would say every player who pays for the game in some way shape or form matters.

I.e., every class can clear, but not every class can compete. Every class should be able to both clear and compete.

Sorc has the lowest DPS and very little to make up for it that can't just be shoved onto a healer. While they can clear content, this is still a fundamental problem that should somehow be addressed.

I'd be okay with having the lowest DPS if I had some utility to make up for it outside of a single synergy

I think my biggest pet peeve is that Sorc actually does feel like a watered-down Nightblade, and I was hoping with this pet change that it would maybe carve out its own definitive style in PvE

Valrien wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Those two pets are not even remotely comparable.

It's an idea. An example. The main overall point of the thread is to turn the Atronach into a toggle pet.

All I did was take about 5 minutes to figure out how the morphs would work and rolled with it. Personally I like the idea of an Air Atronach more.

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration.

We don't need more niche skills.

I think a stamina morph of the fire and forget style would work well. It becomes an air atronach, does physical damage, scales off of whatever physical damage scales off of (stamina? I don't play stamina classes that often, but i assume its stamina), and while the storm atro cannot move, the air atro can and gives a boost to your allies' damage or something similar to what charged atro does. Sorcs could use more stamina abilities for more variety.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration built in to the class. Negate Magic and Overload don't synergize well with stamina and even tanks/healers.

We don't need more niche skills.

You can still use it on Stam, as ults go by your highest SD/WD and Stat pool.

You simply won't be getting the benefits from penentration CP's, etc, but the damage is still pretty significant and the synergy still works like a charm.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration.

We don't need more niche skills.

I think a stamina morph of the fire and forget style would work well. It becomes an air atronach, does physical damage, scales off of whatever physical damage scales off of (stamina? I don't play stamina classes that often, but i assume its stamina), and while the storm atro cannot move, the air atro can and gives a boost to your allies' damage or something similar to what charged atro does. Sorcs could use more stamina abilities for more variety.

Thank you, I think this is a much more necessary change instead. If we get a double barred atro ult, we will be locked for space even more than we already are if you go with the ability. OP may think the bear is nice, but if you've played the wardens. You will know that the bear is situational, just like sorc pets. There is so much end game content that doesn't support pets.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration built in to the class. Negate Magic and Overload don't synergize well with stamina and even tanks/healers.

We don't need more niche skills.

You can still use it on Stam, as ults go by your highest SD/WD and Stat pool.

You simply won't be getting the benefits from penentration CP's, etc, but the damage is still pretty significant and the synergy still works like a charm.

I know that, that's why I said "cp/passives/penetration". Stamina sorc's miss out on the 11% from mighty's CP, the 2-4k penetration from CP, the penetration from sets like twice fanged serpent or spriggans. Luckily enough the lover mundus stone provides spell/physical penetration. The major point I'm making is stamina is shafted.

The skill works and in my post i was explaining that I use it because of the synergy and the dmg is actually alright, but could synergize so much better. There isn't any option for stam users, if we are looking for ult changes, lets start there. Give at least 1 ability that works completely with stam sorc's,

If you make the atro double barred I will be severely uninterested as will others, taking away 1 of our only opportunities to give stam classes a physical dmg ult. If anything change the storm morph to a toggle for all I care, give the stam class the shoot and forget option.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

I am planning on making a stamina sorcerer starting tonight, so I would support this whole heartily. More build variety is never a bad thing.

That wouldn't really be build variety. We need a stam morph, not a double barred ult. We already have bound armaments. The games mechanics should move away from that point of view. It takes away diversity when you take away slots from players. Sure it's a choice, but when the option to choose something like that makes your class stronger and easier to play. Why not choose that option. The idea behind stam sorc should be wind, speed, what about a toggle atro that follows you around sounds speedy? That sounds slow and tanky which is the opposite.

I'll only support this idea if the magicka morph is a toggle and the stamina morph isn't. Even this would divide players though because I'm sure there are many magicka players that don't want another pet they need to worry about. 1 that dies to mechanics and isn't wanted in trials.

I suppose OP addresses this in their above comment. I think this is the underlying problem. FIX how pets work and maybe I would be on board. Right now as it stands, if you introduce a toggle utl pet akin to the bear, I will hate it as will others.

A good idea that will fall flat until they fix pets as a whole. I also don't like the idea behind toggles and I'm happy we are moving farther away from it. Why release more toggles at this point, it just makes the game easier? Is that the objective? To dumb down the already limited bar space?

I don't agree, sorry

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

And that makes them irrelevant?

They are no less important than you, and most of the time those types of players are HUGE supporters of the game.

Theyre not irrelevant, they can complete any in game content. I have a magicka and stamina version of all classes, everything in this game is important

You implied that people who do the upper-end of endgame content are a small player base and are therefore less relevant despite being larger supporters of the game than even a lot of casual players. I would say every player who pays for the game in some way shape or form matters.

I.e., every class can clear, but not every class can compete. Every class should be able to both clear and compete.

Sorc has the lowest DPS and very little to make up for it that can't just be shoved onto a healer. While they can clear content, this is still a fundamental problem that should somehow be addressed.

I'd be okay with having the lowest DPS if I had some utility to make up for it outside of a single synergy

I think my biggest pet peeve is that Sorc actually does feel like a watered-down Nightblade, and I was hoping with this pet change that it would maybe carve out its own definitive style in PvE

This is how MMORPG's are, and true balance is non existant. Sorcs were top tier for a very long time and to an extent still are. Sorcs still have great utility for all roles, and can still push great DPS numbers. Nightblades being overtuned does not make Sorcs any less relevant. I did not imply that upper end game having a smaller player base signifies less importance, because it doesnt, in the same way that leaderboard efficiency determines what class is good or trash. Every class except magicka wardens have flooded those leaderboards at one time or another.

Nightblades being overturned actually does make almost every other DPS class irrelevant but that's another thread for another time.

And just because "Sorc was good for a long time" (not even close to top tier anymore btw, which bas kinda been my point) doesn't mean they should be bottom tier now.

I'll repost what I posted in another thread:
"Past injustices do not justify current injustices"

Even if Sorc was good before, there is no reason it should be bottom tier now.

The point is that even if theyre lower on the dps scale, theyre still practical in upper class endgame content, and in my opinion, are still in the top choices to bring then say, a mag or stam warden.

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.